(02-15-2024 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:40 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:28 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 11:03 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, exactly what level of being far gone is acceptable to be the next president?

Thinking he won an election he lost?
Stating we haven't had WWII yet?
Stating that gas is $8 per gallon?
Not knowing when he was married?
Claiming Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security?
Saying someone wants to rename Pennsylvania?
Slurring his words?
Wearing pounds of orange makeup?
Thinking EJC was his former wife?

And I could probably list a few dozen more.

But sure, let's praise the skinniest kid at fat camp for being in shape.

Trump took and passed a cognitive test.

FFS, you actually buy that nonsense?

Did drunk Ronny Jackson tell you how great trump was or hard the test was?

The test, is anything but hard. It should concern you that trump claims the last five questions ARE hard. They are anything but for someone supposedly with the biggest brain.

Quote:The fifth-to-last question on the test asks you to repeat a sentence out loud, before naming as many words as you can starting with F. In the following “abstraction” section, you have to spot the similarity between different objects such as trains and bicycles (modes of transport), or a watch and a ruler (measuring devices).

Next, you have to recall the random words that were included in the earlier memory section. This may be the part that’s easiest to trip over.

And finally, for the orientation part of the test, you have to … say what the date is.

For trump to claim these are hard is worrying because for any cognitively healthy person, they shouldn’t be. But before we start any armchair diagnosis, you have to weigh up two probabilities against each other. Is it really likely that he found the last five questions hard? Or is it more likely that he’s misrepresenting about how hard they were, in order to look “smarter” than Joe Biden?

I took a closer look at the cognitive test trump claims to have aced

trump Boasts About Acing ‘Hard’ Cognitive Test: Here’s What’s On Those Tests

Do you deny Trump passed it? Do you deny Joe won't take it? I've said it before you argue the most absurd points. Most people recognize Joe Biden is not all there. You seem to be one of those denying the obvious.

No, I don't deny that, because I have no proof that he never took it. Just like you have no proof that he did, other than his word...which is next to worthless.

And no, I have little doubt trump would pass it. Just as i have little doubt Biden would pass it.

And yes, I full well recognize that Biden has lost many steps. Just like pretty much every other human over the age of 75.

Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:40 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:28 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 11:03 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  Trump took and passed a cognitive test.

FFS, you actually buy that nonsense?

Did drunk Ronny Jackson tell you how great trump was or hard the test was?

The test, is anything but hard. It should concern you that trump claims the last five questions ARE hard. They are anything but for someone supposedly with the biggest brain.

Quote:The fifth-to-last question on the test asks you to repeat a sentence out loud, before naming as many words as you can starting with F. In the following “abstraction” section, you have to spot the similarity between different objects such as trains and bicycles (modes of transport), or a watch and a ruler (measuring devices).

Next, you have to recall the random words that were included in the earlier memory section. This may be the part that’s easiest to trip over.

And finally, for the orientation part of the test, you have to … say what the date is.

For trump to claim these are hard is worrying because for any cognitively healthy person, they shouldn’t be. But before we start any armchair diagnosis, you have to weigh up two probabilities against each other. Is it really likely that he found the last five questions hard? Or is it more likely that he’s misrepresenting about how hard they were, in order to look “smarter” than Joe Biden?

I took a closer look at the cognitive test trump claims to have aced

trump Boasts About Acing ‘Hard’ Cognitive Test: Here’s What’s On Those Tests

Do you deny Trump passed it? Do you deny Joe won't take it? I've said it before you argue the most absurd points. Most people recognize Joe Biden is not all there. You seem to be one of those denying the obvious.

No, I don't deny that, because I have no proof that he never took it. Just like you have no proof that he did, other than his word...which is next to worthless.

And no, I have little doubt trump would pass it. Just as i have little doubt Biden would pass it.

And yes, I full well recognize that Biden has lost many steps. Just like pretty much every other human over the age of 75.

Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:40 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:28 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  FFS, you actually buy that nonsense?

Did drunk Ronny Jackson tell you how great trump was or hard the test was?

The test, is anything but hard. It should concern you that trump claims the last five questions ARE hard. They are anything but for someone supposedly with the biggest brain.

I took a closer look at the cognitive test trump claims to have aced

trump Boasts About Acing ‘Hard’ Cognitive Test: Here’s What’s On Those Tests

Do you deny Trump passed it? Do you deny Joe won't take it? I've said it before you argue the most absurd points. Most people recognize Joe Biden is not all there. You seem to be one of those denying the obvious.

No, I don't deny that, because I have no proof that he never took it. Just like you have no proof that he did, other than his word...which is next to worthless.

And no, I have little doubt trump would pass it. Just as i have little doubt Biden would pass it.

And yes, I full well recognize that Biden has lost many steps. Just like pretty much every other human over the age of 75.

Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

(02-14-2024 11:03 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:44 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 09:37 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  It always comes back to Trump doesn't it. You cant' admit Biden is diminished without bringing up Trump even though Trump took the cognitive test, did press conferences much more frequently than Joe, didn't try to shake hands with people who weren't there, and didn't need the Easter Bunny to show him where to go.
Biden's issues are obvious.

Yeah, because that's who the GOP has cast their lot with. He is going to be the nominee, he is going to be running against Biden.

AFAIK, neither has been given any medical diagnosis about their faculties, or if so, it's not been made public. We can both play amateur doctor all we want. What you see from both of them is what you see in nearly every man in his late 70's or early 80's.

I'm all for both being subject to some type of agreed upon independent mental fitness analysis...but until that happens, anyone trying to claim one is fit over the other is just fooling themselves for their political leaning.

I don't have any qualms in stating that Biden doesn't have the mental fitness for another term. Can you say the same thing about trump? Or are you just going to continually ignore the same "proof" of his diminished capacity that we see on camera in nearly every speech he gives? Or are you going to stick with the ridiculous, he's just slightly less impaired?

No Tom I don't have any problem with them both taking a test but to say Trump is as far gone mentally as Biden is delusional and ignores all that we've seen in the years since Biden has been president.

So, exactly what level of being far gone is acceptable to be the next president?

Thinking he won an election he lost?
Stating we haven't had WWII yet?
Stating that gas is $8 per gallon?
Not knowing when he was married?
Claiming Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security?
Saying someone wants to rename Pennsylvania?
Slurring his words?
Wearing pounds of orange makeup?
Thinking EJC was his former wife?

And I could probably list a few dozen more.

But sure, let's praise the skinniest kid at fat camp for being in shape.

Trump took and passed a cognitive test. Biden refuses to. You are letting your TDS get the best of you. Trump is nowhere near as far gone as Biden and I think you are smart enough recognize it.

He's smart enough to recognize it, but not honest enough to admit it.

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:40 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  Do you deny Trump passed it? Do you deny Joe won't take it? I've said it before you argue the most absurd points. Most people recognize Joe Biden is not all there. You seem to be one of those denying the obvious.

No, I don't deny that, because I have no proof that he never took it. Just like you have no proof that he did, other than his word...which is next to worthless.

And no, I have little doubt trump would pass it. Just as i have little doubt Biden would pass it.

And yes, I full well recognize that Biden has lost many steps. Just like pretty much every other human over the age of 75.

Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

(02-15-2024 10:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  No, I don't deny that, because I have no proof that he never took it. Just like you have no proof that he did, other than his word...which is next to worthless.

And no, I have little doubt trump would pass it. Just as i have little doubt Biden would pass it.

And yes, I full well recognize that Biden has lost many steps. Just like pretty much every other human over the age of 75.

Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

Your a hopeless case Tom. Does Trump say some dumb things? Yes he does but to compare him to Biden is simply ignoring how bad Biden actually is. Hell there have been doctors who have weighed in saying he shows the signs of dementia. Anyone who has experienced it with their relatives can recognize the signs. Biden never was very sharp, even in his youth but now it's just sad to watch.

(02-15-2024 10:13 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

Your a hopeless case Tom. Does Trump say some dumb things? Yes he does but to compare him to Biden is simply ignoring how bad Biden actually is. Hell there have been doctors who have weighed in saying he shows the signs of dementia. Anyone who has experienced it with their relatives can recognize the signs. Biden never was very sharp, even in his youth but now it's just sad to watch.

Dude, just stop. There's countless doctors who have been claiming since trump was in office that he showed signs of mental decline, etc. There's a twitter account, DutytoWarn I think it's called, that's been pointing them out for years now.

Again, they are also diagnosing him without examining him.

All I'm saying: Stop claiming with no actual medical evidence about whether someone has dementia or not. And no, some partisan special counsel is not qualified to be spouting any sort of medical diagnoses.

You've made your judgement that Biden is not mentally fit to be president. I also don't think he's mentally fit for another term either. What more do you want?

Just stop ******* pretending that trump is some great alternative!

(02-15-2024 10:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:13 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

Your a hopeless case Tom. Does Trump say some dumb things? Yes he does but to compare him to Biden is simply ignoring how bad Biden actually is. Hell there have been doctors who have weighed in saying he shows the signs of dementia. Anyone who has experienced it with their relatives can recognize the signs. Biden never was very sharp, even in his youth but now it's just sad to watch.

Dude, just stop. There's countless doctors who have been claiming since trump was in office that he showed signs of mental decline, etc. There's a twitter account, DutytoWarn I think it's called, that's been pointing them out for years now.

Again, they are also diagnosing him without examining him.

All I'm saying: Stop claiming with no actual medical evidence about whether someone has dementia or not. And no, some partisan special counsel is not qualified to be spouting any sort of medical diagnoses.

You've made your judgement that Biden is not mentally fit to be president. I also don't think he's mentally fit for another term either. What more do you want?

Just stop ******* pretending that trump is some great alternative!

LOL. Okay Tom . We'll agree that Biden is unfit to be president.

(02-15-2024 10:13 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:40 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  Tom, if that test is so easy why won't they let Joe take it? That Hur report just confirmed what most of us already knew by watching and listening to Joe but it seems some are unable or unwilling to acknowledge what is obvious.

For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

Your a hopeless case Tom. Does Trump say some dumb things? Yes he does but to compare him to Biden is simply ignoring how bad Biden actually is. Hell there have been doctors who have weighed in saying he shows the signs of dementia. Anyone who has experienced it with their relatives can recognize the signs. Biden never was very sharp, even in his youth but now it's just sad to watch.

During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

(02-13-2024 04:23 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Yes it was murder.

I guess if someone shot YOUR unarmed wife/daughter/sister in cold blood you'd be perfectly fine with it.

Yes, I suspect you would.

Murdered by low iq filth.

They dont care

(02-15-2024 01:09 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:13 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 10:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:57 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 09:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  For the same stupid reason Obama didn't trot out his birth certificate when trump was race baiting with it. It would solve nothing with the cult.

And again, the Hur report "confirmed" none of that. There was no medical evaluation in that investigation and Hur is not qualified to be making any mental or medical diagnoses. It's his partisan opinion and nothing more.

What did you think when trump thought Nikki Haley had something to do with J6 security? He said her name several times as he rambled on.

Or do you buy his story now that he did it on purpose?

You are hilarious. The man couldn't recall when he was vice president. The interview was so bad and Biden's cognitive condition so bad they declined to prosecute because they felt the jury would be sympathetic to his diminished mental state. You don't have to be a medical professional to talk to someone and realize they aren't all there.
I guess you need to be told what to think.

trump didn't know when he was married to his wife. He thought his rape accuser was one of his wives.

I guess it's easy to mess that up with all the women trump married, cheated on, left him, and all the porn stars he's banged, and all the other women he assaulted.

Nowhere am I denying that Biden has lost a step or should get another term. He's too old. All I'm saying is it's dangerous to make medical diagnosis through a partisan investigation with no medical professionals involved. You seem to be pretending that trump is somehow qualified by comparison. It's easy to forget or mix up dates. It's not normal to not know that we fought WWII quite a long time ago!

Your a hopeless case Tom. Does Trump say some dumb things? Yes he does but to compare him to Biden is simply ignoring how bad Biden actually is. Hell there have been doctors who have weighed in saying he shows the signs of dementia. Anyone who has experienced it with their relatives can recognize the signs. Biden never was very sharp, even in his youth but now it's just sad to watch.

During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

I'm afraid I didn't trot out anyone who said that and it has nothing to do with Biden being diminished mentally.

(02-15-2024 01:09 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

In an incredibly long list of stupid stuff you've said, this may well take the cake.

(02-15-2024 01:09 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

There are no studies, none, that show demon semen does not cause COVID.

(02-15-2024 03:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 01:09 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

There are no studies, none, that show demon semen does not cause COVID.

There's also no studies, none, that show your lack of an affinity for goats.

(02-15-2024 03:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 03:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-15-2024 01:09 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  During Covid you guys also trotted out a “doctor” who said that cancer was caused by demon semen so….

There are no studies, none, that show demon semen does not cause COVID.

There's also no studies, none, that show your lack of an affinity for goats.

Could be a reason for that, but keep in mind goats are habitual liars.