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Early game day N Illinois
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Dear Friends,
I just found out that Northern Illinois made 30 free throws. How many did Eastern make? Is Eastern capable to give the other team 35 attempts and then they made 30. Sounds a bit unbalanced.
02-03-2024 06:50 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Dear Friends,
Just looked up that Northern Illinois had twice as many free throws as Eastern. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that we committed that many fouls. That was the difference in the game.
02-03-2024 07:14 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-03-2024 06:20 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  
(02-03-2024 06:07 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Time to clean house again.
1000% agree! Heath needs to resign tomorrow! We can't beat A MAC team in last place on a 10 game losing streak! EMU needs to do it now!

GD, I would agree. Having said that, I have never resigned from a job with a contract that pays me $375K+ a year and I doubt Stan will either. His performance at EMU has hardly made him a hot commodity on the open market. Here is hoping that Keith Stone's Game Above will realize that their extensive financial investment in the basketball arena has been a "lipstick on a pig" venture, so to speak and provide the funds to buy Stan out.

Honestly, I think the perceived lack of effort on this team is due to the lack of athleticism in our frontcourt. Geeter, Billingsley, Serven, Osojnik, and Jihad all work hard, they just don't have the hops or quicks to play at a contender like Akron for much more than a couple of minutes a game. Our 7-footer is not explosive or strong enough to power dunk the ball on a breakaway layup today. We play the game totally "below the rim" and today we ran into a team, while untalented. plays the game well above the rim. We could not even prevent a layup with the game on the line in the final minute, the foot speed was just not there.

I do question Stan's substitution patterns as well. The frontcourt is a revolving door and has been all year, no player can establish a rhythm or the confidence to be aggressive and actually make a mistake without being taken out immediately. That is my opinion only.
02-03-2024 07:31 PM
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holybovine Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Early game day N Illinois
When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.
02-03-2024 11:10 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-03-2024 11:10 PM)holybovine Wrote:  When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.

Two more seasons after this one I believe.
02-03-2024 11:28 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Jerry brings up a good point about the Frontcourt’s lack of athleticism (and I would say quickness too) which can be misinterpretted as lack of effort and has been a real hindrances to wins all year. In saying this, I actually think Coach Heath did a good job with adjustments to keep EMU in the game- along with some poor shooting for stretches by NIU. And I think the frontcourt did a decent job to cause some of that poor shooting during these stretches. I also note Billingsley and Geeter were both 4/5 shooting and Jihad was 4/8- All nice shooting efforts. Although against a low quality opponent so I am not going to get too excited that we turned a corner here. Nonetheless, this was the most complete game by the frontcourt.

And I should add that Lovejoy’s defensive effort kept us in the game too, especially during the late run. Actually, Lovejoy had a career effort with 19 points on 5/9 shooting, 5 assists, and 4 steals (with only 1 foul!). He defended Coit holding him to 2/15 shooting for 9 points (10 below his average). Amazing effort and performance from Lovejoy!

It is unfortunate that TyCuff had an uncommonly poor shooting game himself at 6/22 (despite still having 14 points). Osojnik had a worse performance. And this ultimately cost EMU a game that they needed really badly.

This team is also really missing Ellerbe’s athleticism for 25 minutes a game. Kind of a poor man’s Tim Bond. Would have made a huge difference in this game. Wish I knew why he was out and when he is going to come back.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2024 10:15 AM by RamyEMU.)
02-04-2024 10:13 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Dear Friends,
I appreciate the comments about players ability, both defensively and offensively. My question to those who may have watched the game, because I did not, is the slowness, lack of quickness, part of the reason for all the foul calls? And, were they legitimate calls? For me, that is the elephant in the room.
I just can't believe the other team got 35 chances at the foul line.
02-04-2024 10:28 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-04-2024 10:28 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
I appreciate the comments about players ability, both defensively and offensively. My question to those who may have watched the game, because I did not, is the slowness, lack of quickness, part of the reason for all the foul calls? And, were they legitimate calls? For me, that is the elephant in the room.
I just can't believe the other team got 35 chances at the foul line.

With MAC officials anything is possible.
02-04-2024 12:47 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-04-2024 10:28 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
I appreciate the comments about players ability, both defensively and offensively. My question to those who may have watched the game, because I did not, is the slowness, lack of quickness, part of the reason for all the foul calls? And, were they legitimate calls? For me, that is the elephant in the room.
I just can't believe the other team got 35 chances at the foul line.

I think it is more than the lack of athleticism and quickness of the front court for the consistent foul discrepancy that EMU routinely gets. But that is certainly a significant factor in it- both directly and indirectly.

An example of direct factor: Martynov and Billingsley don’t get much lift on their jumps, so their blocks tend to be more poking from the side then coming from above the shooter- this will have a tendency to catch shooters arm or at least give the appearance of such to the referee.

Some indirect effect of this: Since the bigs are a bit slow offensively and on rebounds, it entices the opposing player to be more aggressive to go after the ball thus leads to more aggressive play from the defender that borders on fouls. Yet the refs are overlooking these borderline fouls because it becomes so routine over the course of the game. Conversely, since our bigs are a bit slow and little lift to anticipate where their opponent is going with the ball, the coaches get our bigs to stay in front and stretch up their hands to avoid biting on pump fakes and ironically to avoid getting called for the foul. But this kind of defense is almost like a stationary tree, so the slightest deviation from “stationary” catches the refs eye for a potential foul.

There are other factors too. Our last two coaches Rob Murphy and Stan Heath were refined gentlemen so don’t hound the refs like other opposing coaches do. I like/respect this demeanor more, but hurts the team in terms of fouls. For example, what happened to Randle at the end of the game against WMU. His opponent was playing rough the whole game- throwing elbows and barreling through him. On their way down the court Randle throws an elbow (I am sure retaliatory), Coach Dwayne Stephens starts balking to the refs. So they call a foul when Randle and his opponent were both roughly jockeying for rebound position on the ensuing shot (should have been a foul on both, but Refs are now looking at Randle). Then to make matters worse, they go to the replay to check the elbow that Coach Stephens was originally balking about. So Randle ends up getting called for a double foul. Of course, WMU was up 20+ with a couple minutes to go, so what was Coach Stevens even whining about? He is just routinely getting into the refs ears (a true disciple of Coach Izzo). That stuff works, but our coaches don’t do that. Instead they will pull our player for committing a foul, making him look more guilty. The NIU coach is a bit quieter as far as I can tell, so coaching pressure was not a factor in the NIU game.But thought I’d throw it out there for completeness on this topic.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2024 01:45 PM by RamyEMU.)
02-04-2024 01:31 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Dear RamyEMU,
Thank you for that very clear explanation of what may be happening on the floor. That has made me watch basketball games with a different approach.

Dear emu79,
I have believed that referees at Eastern games expect our players to be overly aggressive, so therefore
they call more fouls on Eastern then their opponents.
02-04-2024 02:43 PM
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EMUGLORYDAYSthe90's Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-03-2024 11:28 PM)emu79 Wrote:  [quothttps://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2021/04/29/eastern-michigan-basketball-coach-stan-heath-salary/4889114001/e='holybovine' pid='19450052' dateline='1707019815']
When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.

Two more seasons after this one I believe.
[/quote]
02-04-2024 04:34 PM
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holybovine Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-03-2024 11:28 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(02-03-2024 11:10 PM)holybovine Wrote:  When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.

Two more seasons after this one I believe.

That’s too bad.
02-04-2024 05:11 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-04-2024 01:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  
(02-04-2024 10:28 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
I appreciate the comments about players ability, both defensively and offensively. My question to those who may have watched the game, because I did not, is the slowness, lack of quickness, part of the reason for all the foul calls? And, were they legitimate calls? For me, that is the elephant in the room.
I just can't believe the other team got 35 chances at the foul line.

I think it is more than the lack of athleticism and quickness of the front court for the consistent foul discrepancy that EMU routinely gets. But that is certainly a significant factor in it- both directly and indirectly.

An example of direct factor: Martynov and Billingsley don’t get much lift on their jumps, so their blocks tend to be more poking from the side then coming from above the shooter- this will have a tendency to catch shooters arm or at least give the appearance of such to the referee.

Some indirect effect of this: Since the bigs are a bit slow offensively and on rebounds, it entices the opposing player to be more aggressive to go after the ball thus leads to more aggressive play from the defender that borders on fouls. Yet the refs are overlooking these borderline fouls because it becomes so routine over the course of the game. Conversely, since our bigs are a bit slow and little lift to anticipate where their opponent is going with the ball, the coaches get our bigs to stay in front and stretch up their hands to avoid biting on pump fakes and ironically to avoid getting called for the foul. But this kind of defense is almost like a stationary tree, so the slightest deviation from “stationary” catches the refs eye for a potential foul.

There are other factors too. Our last two coaches Rob Murphy and Stan Heath were refined gentlemen so don’t hound the refs like other opposing coaches do. I like/respect this demeanor more, but hurts the team in terms of fouls. For example, what happened to Randle at the end of the game against WMU. His opponent was playing rough the whole game- throwing elbows and barreling through him. On their way down the court Randle throws an elbow (I am sure retaliatory), Coach Dwayne Stephens starts balking to the refs. So they call a foul when Randle and his opponent were both roughly jockeying for rebound position on the ensuing shot (should have been a foul on both, but Refs are now looking at Randle). Then to make matters worse, they go to the replay to check the elbow that Coach Stephens was originally balking about. So Randle ends up getting called for a double foul. Of course, WMU was up 20+ with a couple minutes to go, so what was Coach Stevens even whining about? He is just routinely getting into the refs ears (a true disciple of Coach Izzo). That stuff works, but our coaches don’t do that. Instead they will pull our player for committing a foul, making him look more guilty. The NIU coach is a bit quieter as far as I can tell, so coaching pressure was not a factor in the NIU game.But thought I’d throw it out there for completeness on this topic.

Solid post. Osojnik fouled out for grabs and holds because he got beat off the dribble, he just is not fast enough to stay in front of many drivers.

I totally agree about Ellerbe, your description of a "poor man's Tim Bond" is spot on. He was instrumental to the team, in fact he still is the statistical leader in RPG, a horrible indictment of the rest of the frontcourt's rebounding ability.

Gosh I hate to say this, but Stan would be better off playing zone defense with this roster. We just don't have the athletic ability to match up one-on-one with most MAC teams and effectively close out on three-ball shots, it is just who we are. I also hate to see Lovejoy and Acuff chasing guards all over the floor while playing 40 minutes.
02-04-2024 06:13 PM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-04-2024 02:43 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear RamyEMU,
Thank you for that very clear explanation of what may be happening on the floor. That has made me watch basketball games with a different approach.

Dear emu79,
I have believed that referees at Eastern games expect our players to be overly aggressive, so therefore
they call more fouls on Eastern then their opponents.
What evidence do you have that leads you to believe that "referees expect our players to be overly aggressive?" You, yourself have admitted that you don't follow EMU basketball closely, so how on earth could you make that judgement??
02-05-2024 06:48 AM
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RamyEMU Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-04-2024 04:34 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  
(02-03-2024 11:28 PM)emu79 Wrote:  [quothttps://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2021/04/29/eastern-michigan-basketball-coach-stan-heath-salary/4889114001/e='holybovine' pid='19450052' dateline='1707019815']
When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.

Two more seasons after this one I believe.
[/quote]

I think something went wrong with your post, Glory
02-05-2024 09:19 AM
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EMUGLORYDAYSthe90's Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Early game day N Illinois
(02-05-2024 09:19 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  
(02-04-2024 04:34 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  
(02-03-2024 11:28 PM)emu79 Wrote:  [quothttps://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2021/04/29/eastern-michigan-basketball-coach-stan-heath-salary/4889114001/e='holybovine' pid='19450052' dateline='1707019815']
When does Heath’s contract expire? Obviously we won’t fire him.

Two more seasons after this one I believe.

I think something went wrong with your post, Glory
[/quote]
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports...190648002/
02-05-2024 10:02 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Early game day N Illinois
Dear Bob,
Because I have been to many basketball games through the years, and I would have to go and check, but most of the times, Eastern has more foul calls against them then their opponent.
Call it what you want, but referee perceptions of teams, also has something to do with their calls during a game. For example, this is a MAC team playing a Big Ten team, or this team has a lousy record therefore look for fouls because that is the only way they can keep up.
02-05-2024 10:11 AM
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