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Buc66 Offline
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NIL AND ETSU
As millions are being routinely tossed around at the big places - see UT, for example, and the trouble already underway there — what is going on with ETSU athletics and NIL?



https://etsubucs.com/sports/2023/7/24/_1...33204.aspx
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024 02:02 PM by Buc66.)
01-31-2024 07:51 AM
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GoBucsGo Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(01-31-2024 07:51 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  As millions are being routinely tossed around at the big places - see UT for, example, and the trouble already underway there — what is going on with ETSU athletics and NIL?



https://etsubucs.com/sports/2023/7/24/_1...33204.aspx

We have a collective, it's pretty small so far. Quimari Peterson & Jalen Seymour both have NIL deals - you can see their tweets on the social media platform formerly known as twitter, weekly ads for Tru Shine Car Wash and the storage place next to Planet Fitness. I'm told football is actually in good shape. The QB transferring from Gardner-Webb has an NIL deal he's bringing with him. That's what I know about it thus far.
02-06-2024 01:36 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
In the same ballpark (below). This is inevitable. As for all the others outside the SEC, Big 10, and those from the ACC, Big 12, etc. that end up in this new league — they will be in a new world of college football and eventually perhaps college basketball. It’s already essentially there in football. And, unless some sort of deal is cut to salvage DI basketball and March Madness - those left behind there will also be in a new day. When this new college football major league is formed — what will happen to the rest left in what is now NCAA FBS and FCS football plus Division I basketball?



https://www.outkick.com/sports/sec-big-t...-over-ncaa
02-06-2024 02:48 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
Esp. for Buc66, who mentions money in 90% of his posts (just sayin')......
This is an hour long, but it's dense without being too "nuts and bolts". It's also Oklahoma-centric, but is really an excellent window into what the future of the NCAA may look like. The main source of info is the guy in the middle, who really knows what he's talking about. If you really care about how all this is evolving..........listen to as much of this as you can.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VxhtRxvpRe...Rpb24gTklM
02-07-2024 03:54 PM
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ETSUfan#2 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-06-2024 02:48 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  In the same ballpark (below). This is inevitable. As for all the others outside the SEC, Big 10, and those from the ACC, Big 12, etc. that end up in this new league — they will be in a new world of college football and eventually perhaps college basketball. It’s already essentially there in football. And, unless some sort of deal is cut to salvage DI basketball and March Madness - those left behind there will also be in a new day. When this new college football major league is formed — what will happen to the rest left in what is now NCAA FBS and FCS football plus Division I basketball?



https://www.outkick.com/sports/sec-big-t...-over-ncaa

Not sure about basketball since technically everyone is aiming for the same championship, and most of the recent conference realignments have seemed to focus mainly on football and to heck with all other sports.

For football, especially FCS teams, personally I think FBS Power 4 schools might be better off no longer scheduling an FCS team and just adding an FBS Group of 5 team if Tennessee or Kentucky want to ensure they have a cupcake win on the schedule.

Outside of odd cases like ETSU beating Vanderbilt in 2021, pretty much every time we schedule an FBS team, it's a road game and more often then not guarantees an almost automatic loss. This is not just ETSU either.

That's not to say scheduling another FCS team would be an automatic win, though even in some of our worst years ETSU would likely have a better chance beating another FCS team then getting blown out by Mississippi State or North Carolina. From a fan perspective it might also open up the possibility of an occasional extra home game, as opposed to a guaranteed road game 500 miles away.

ETSU being a regional university and not a state flagship school or other program with national recognition, the bulk of fans and alumni are gonna be in east-northeast Tennessee, far Southwestern Virginia, with a bit of bleedover from northwestern North Carolina and southeastern Kentucky. Outside of playing UT in Knoxville, or Appalachian State over in Boone, most FBS matchups would be too far for most fans and alumni to even try traveling. Thats not to say scheduling another FCS school would guarantee another home game, but it takes in from 100% road game if we play an FBS team, to probably a 50/50 tossup depending on who we schedule.
02-07-2024 06:19 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
Doc Sander posted a video on the athletic web site talking about our efforts to establish some form of NIL in order to compete with other schools on our level.
02-13-2024 04:27 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-13-2024 04:27 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Doc Sander posted a video on the athletic web site talking about our efforts to establish some form of NIL in order to compete with other schools on our level.


Thanks - just finished viewing the video. WOW!!! I don’t like any of this that’s happening with college athletics - like, who cares. But, Doc Sander states that ETSU either adapts or gets off the train - essentially. So, they’re going to put together a plan of action over the next six months. To me - this is whole situation is UGLY. But — it all comes down to that usual culprit —— MONEY. Doc Sander points out for ETSU to even be competitive in the SoCon, it certainly looks as if it’ll take MORE MONEY. Already Student Fees are paying a large share of students on athletic scholarships. So — morally, ethically, and practically — that source cannot be increased for this insidious NIL. So, where will the NIL money source for a mid-major school like ETSU come from? And, that’s just one of the 8,356 unanswered questions regarding the Transfer Portal, NIL, and the NCAA.
02-13-2024 05:29 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-13-2024 05:29 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(02-13-2024 04:27 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Doc Sander posted a video on the athletic web site talking about our efforts to establish some form of NIL in order to compete with other schools on our level.


Thanks - just finished viewing the video. WOW!!! I don’t like any of this that’s happening with college athletics - like, who cares. But, Doc Sander states that ETSU either adapts or gets off the train - essentially. So, they’re going to put together a plan of action over the next six months. To me - this is whole situation is UGLY. But — it all comes down to that usual culprit —— MONEY. Doc Sander points out for ETSU to even be competitive in the SoCon, it certainly looks as if it’ll take MORE MONEY. Already Student Fees are paying a large share of students on athletic scholarships. So — morally, ethically, and practically — that source cannot be increased for this insidious NIL. So, where will the NIL money source for a mid-major school like ETSU come from? And, that’s just one of the 8,356 unanswered questions regarding the Transfer Portal, NIL, and the NCAA.

Yes agreed. I have not heard anyone say that they like the current situation. Doc or anyone else in the country. Doc was clear though that we have to do what it takes to be competitive with teams on our level. That is all we can do. Sooner or later there must be guard rails put up the protect the college system and no one knows what that might looks like right now. I hope eventually there will be some type of system set up that allows all D1 schools to remain competitive without letting the 50 richest schools buy up everything.
02-13-2024 05:49 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-13-2024 05:49 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  
(02-13-2024 05:29 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(02-13-2024 04:27 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Doc Sander posted a video on the athletic web site talking about our efforts to establish some form of NIL in order to compete with other schools on our level.


Thanks - just finished viewing the video. WOW!!! I don’t like any of this that’s happening with college athletics - like, who cares. But, Doc Sander states that ETSU either adapts or gets off the train - essentially. So, they’re going to put together a plan of action over the next six months. To me - this is whole situation is UGLY. But — it all comes down to that usual culprit —— MONEY. Doc Sander points out for ETSU to even be competitive in the SoCon, it certainly looks as if it’ll take MORE MONEY. Already Student Fees are paying a large share of students on athletic scholarships. So — morally, ethically, and practically — that source cannot be increased for this insidious NIL. So, where will the NIL money source for a mid-major school like ETSU come from? And, that’s just one of the 8,356 unanswered questions regarding the Transfer Portal, NIL, and the NCAA.

Yes agreed. I have not heard anyone say that they like the current situation. Doc or anyone else in the country. Doc was clear though that we have to do what it takes to be competitive with teams on our level. That is all we can do. Sooner or later there must be guard rails put up the protect the college system and no one knows what that might looks like right now. I hope eventually there will be some type of system set up that allows all D1 schools to remain competitive without letting the 50 richest schools buy up everything.



At ETSU and most all of the mid-major schools - and that includes a bulk of the group of five FBS schools - Student Athletic Fees help pay significant portions of the educational expenses of those on athletic grants. And - much of those fees come from borrowed money. Obviously, the NIL program should only apply to those’ schools that do not rely on student fees for their athletics. That’s the big folks making the big money with their lucrative conference media contracts. Why have schools like ETSU that do not and will not make much media money been sucked into this NIL program?
02-13-2024 06:48 PM
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SeaWolf676 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
I've read what all of you said, and I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think that's quite how it's going to play out.

In the end, the money...obscene as it is...will prevail. It always does. The NCAA may survive, or not. Who really cares? FBS football will most definitely survive. Well, at a very select level. The only questions are (a) How many teams, and (b) What will it be called? Figure the P4 ends up with roughly 60 teams. There's your new "FBS", with a 12...and eventually 16 team...playoff. All of the remaining 70 or so 2nd-tier FBS teams are playing for a bowl game. The upper tier will siphon off most of the big bowls as part of the playoff systems, but there should still be 20+ bowl games for the best of the rest of FBS.

At the FCS level and beyond, nothing changes. The only effect on FCS will be losing top players to the FBS "NFL Farm System" every year. Get used to it. It is what it is. The money is too much to ignore. The FBS will buy the best players out there, wherever they are.

I could go on, and into more detail, but that's the nickel version. Top 40-60 teams rule; 12-16 team playoff; FCS, DII DIII, NAIA, etc, remain largely unchanged; FCS has trouble keeping its' best players. College football becomes (already is) an NFL farm system.

Unless Congress, the NCAA, and/or the conferences themselves act...and quickly...the NIL/transfer portal elephant is about to trample and ultimately wreck the entire FBS / FCS village. Again, it is what it is.

Go Bucs.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2024 07:03 PM by SeaWolf676.)
02-13-2024 06:54 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
Even at our level - Doc Sander flatly states that we must pony up the NIL money or fold. He stated that ETSU will present an athletic plan within the next six months. (Side note - Doc Sander is good and ETSU is fortunate to have him.)

What’s the speculation out there as to what ETSU will do with its athletic program?
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2024 07:52 AM by Buc66.)
02-13-2024 08:00 PM
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-13-2024 08:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Even at our level - Doc Sander flatly states that we must pony up the NIL money or fold. He stated that ETSU will present an athletic plan within the next six months. (Side note - Doc Sander is good and ETSU is fortunate to have him.)

What’s the speculation out there as to what ETSU will do with its athletic program?

Between having to spend more money on NIL, and the transition cost of a move to FBS level going from $5,000 to start the transfer process, to $5 million, I'm hoping there are no current plans to leave the SoCon or FCS.

The SoCon and the teams here do not seem to be on anyones radar right now, and personally I see no justification to spend unnecessary money at the FBS level when football has failed at the FCS level the past two seasons, and I see zero advantages that a move would give to basketball, baseball, or any other sport.
02-16-2024 07:17 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-16-2024 07:17 AM)ETSUfan#2 Wrote:  
(02-13-2024 08:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Even at our level - Doc Sander flatly states that we must pony up the NIL money or fold. He stated that ETSU will present an athletic plan within the next six months. (Side note - Doc Sander is good and ETSU is fortunate to have him.)

What’s the speculation out there as to what ETSU will do with its athletic program?

Between having to spend more money on NIL, and the transition cost of a move to FBS level going from $5,000 to start the transfer process, to $5 million, I'm hoping there are no current plans to leave the SoCon or FCS.

The SoCon and the teams here do not seem to be on anyones radar right now, and personally I see no justification to spend unnecessary money at the FBS level when football has failed at the FCS level the past two seasons, and I see zero advantages that a move would give to basketball, baseball, or any other sport.

You state the abject reality even as we might not like it. Those that we watched “move up”, with envy, over the last several decades - certainly those leaving the SoCon — and spending millions over time trying to keep up appearances, with a few exceptions, never recovered those millions and reached the lofty goals envisioned. They are about to get slammed and bumped back down the hierarchy by the big money power brokers at the top unless there’s a radical shift in the present trajectory of college sports. This is the most turbulent times ever for college sports. Who knows what ETSU sports will look like in ten years. Will there be a SoCon or another league for ETSU sports given all the fallout that’s about to take place in college athletics?
02-16-2024 09:35 AM
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GoBucsGo Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-13-2024 06:54 PM)SeaWolf676 Wrote:  I've read what all of you said, and I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think that's quite how it's going to play out.

In the end, the money...obscene as it is...will prevail. It always does. The NCAA may survive, or not. Who really cares? FBS football will most definitely survive. Well, at a very select level. The only questions are (a) How many teams, and (b) What will it be called? Figure the P4 ends up with roughly 60 teams. There's your new "FBS", with a 12...and eventually 16 team...playoff. All of the remaining 70 or so 2nd-tier FBS teams are playing for a bowl game. The upper tier will siphon off most of the big bowls as part of the playoff systems, but there should still be 20+ bowl games for the best of the rest of FBS.

At the FCS level and beyond, nothing changes. The only effect on FCS will be losing top players to the FBS "NFL Farm System" every year. Get used to it. It is what it is. The money is too much to ignore. The FBS will buy the best players out there, wherever they are.

I could go on, and into more detail, but that's the nickel version. Top 40-60 teams rule; 12-16 team playoff; FCS, DII DIII, NAIA, etc, remain largely unchanged; FCS has trouble keeping its' best players. College football becomes (already is) an NFL farm system.

Unless Congress, the NCAA, and/or the conferences themselves act...and quickly...the NIL/transfer portal elephant is about to trample and ultimately wreck the entire FBS / FCS village. Again, it is what it is.

Go Bucs.
I agree with your post, SeaWolf, well said. In terms of the FCS nothing changes. Doc even told me himself that football was fine with the NIL money that they have. So football is probably good to go.

Basketball is not. He thinks to start we need about $170K in our NIL collective to be competitive. Now, do the big donors have that? They most certainly do. We average 3900 a game at Men's basketball games, which still leads the league, even though the men's team is mired in 7th place and likely will be in a play-in game in Asheville. I went to the VMI football game this year, which pitted the 2-5 Bucs vs. the 3-4 Keydets, and the place was full. So fan support has been pretty unwavering, which I think is nothing else than impressive. As of now, the big donors don't like that the collective takes 20-25% off the top for itself. It's a for profit entity. They may not like it, but it's pretty much either they come up with the money, or we will be playing the play-in game in Asheville for the foreseeable future.

Now, who has the money? There are several big donors that could float the $170K or more and not bat an eye, including Trujillo, Niswonger, and several others who I won't name. Hell, Tru Shine car wash & the storage place next to Planet Fitness currently pay our only two players making an significant NIL money, Quimari Peterson & Jalen Seymour. I've heard a couple of people act like we don't have the money here, but that's ridiculous. Of course we do. Hell, we have a medical school, and I know at least a few of those alumni who have made in the millions, likely more. So, I think we can get it. Just for comparison, Woolbright from WCU pulls down $100K in NIL. Samford has the entire starting 5 with NIL money.

ETSU is late to the game, thanks to the wonderful Scott Carter, who tried to stick his head in the sand and ignore this. But, I do think we can catch up.

Now, the question is: Do we want to? Or, maybe we won't have to. As SeaWolf pointed out, the big boys are probably leaving the NCAA anyway. If that happens, the NCAA may reform D1, so to speak, and who knows what happens to the NIL. Or, they actually get a clue and decide to cap NIL or something of that nature.

In the end, the NCAA BOTCHED this entire operation. They give no guidance, and they change the rules as they go. The organization is a joke. Plus, they have zero power, so when they catch a program "cheating" what are they really going to do? Not much. UTK should have a really good case against them. I'm not a UTK alum or fan, but just looking at it objectively I think they do have a good case.

The good ol' days of 4 years ago are long gone in the distant past.... Now I'm a ray of darkness! Well, not completely, because I do think we can compete even with the ridiculousness that's been laid out before us. Thanks NCAA for your absolute incompetence.
02-16-2024 01:45 PM
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
The samford starting 5 and woolbright nil deals you mentioned just wowed me. I believe it but it still just boggles my mind.
02-16-2024 09:35 PM
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
Great information. Thanks for posting that.
02-16-2024 09:46 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
ESPN, money, and lawyers now own the NCAA. The NCAA is now just trying to keep up appearances, has no leverage, and must yield to the power brokers when push comes to shove. The SEC and Big 10 are now in cahoots to determine the future of Power 4 football, the CFP, and, of course, the money distribution formula. The above observations are insightful and on target. ESPN, lawyers, and money - the huge ESPN media rights deals with the upper conferences brought in the lawyers representing the players with the lawsuits for a share of the cash. OK - this is all up in the air and likely headed to some sort of resolution ending with a pro-division of upper level college football - and an upper level pro-division of college basketball later on. As for the rest, which are about to be left as road kill — yes, a farm system if the Portal stays in place for all.

Maybe the SoCon, for example, should affiliate with the SEC, for example, as a minor league of the SEC and jack this Portal into high gear for players to come and go, go and come among the member schools as needed. Maybe the SEC would even share a little of the cash flow with the SoCon.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2024 09:20 AM by Buc66.)
02-17-2024 08:10 AM
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GoBucsGo Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-17-2024 08:10 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  ESPN, money, and lawyers now own the NCAA. The NCAA is now just trying to keep up appearances, has no leverage, and must yield to the power brokers when push comes to shove. The SEC and Big 10 are now in cahoots to determine the future of Power 4 football, the CFP, and, of course, the money distribution formula. The above observations are insightful and on target. ESPN, lawyers, and money - the huge ESPN media rights deals with the upper conferences brought in the lawyers representing the players with the lawsuits for a share of the cash. OK - this is all up in the air and likely headed to some sort of resolution ending with a pro-division of upper level college football - and an upper level pro-division of college basketball later on. As for the rest, which are about to be left as road kill — yes, a farm system if the Portal stays in place for all.

Maybe the SoCon, for example, should affiliate with the SEC, for example, as a minor league of the SEC and jack this Portal into high gear for players to come and go, go and come among the member schools as needed. Maybe the SEC would even share a little of the cash flow with the SoCon.

Remember, ESPN made a bunch of staffing cuts this year. What happens if they go under? Hard to imagine that would happen, but what if it did? What you suggested as a minor league of the SEC isn’t crazy, and maybe wouldn’t be a terrible scenario. However it would only be for basketball. As I said, football is in better shape with the NIL with the FCS. If the powers leave the NCAA, then all kinds of craziness will ensue. But yes it’s money, and it will always be money. The ncaa lost their power some time ago, and the NCAA is a joke. Man, they just killed it when they botched the NIL.
02-17-2024 10:19 AM
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Buc76 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
I believe most of.the posters on this board have forgotten or don't know that the Federal courts made the rulings that caused the NIL to become legal not the NCAA.

Only 137 people have donated a total of $37,000 to the current 'Athlectic Fund Raiser' where every single dollar goes to support the athletes. You expect to raise $170,000 to support socon basketball?
02-19-2024 01:07 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-19-2024 01:07 AM)Buc76 Wrote:  I believe most of.the posters on this board have forgotten or don't know that the Federal courts made the rulings that caused the NIL to become legal not the NCAA.

Only 137 people have donated a total of $37,000 to the current 'Athlectic Fund Raiser' where every single dollar goes to support the athletes. You expect to raise $170,000 to support socon basketball?

Like I said - lawyers. Yes, the lawsuits and court rulings have taken center stage as the NCAA tries to respond. But - back to what it’s all about — MONEY. My contention from day one - ETSU is in a more precarious position than some other peer institutions when it comes to raising the MONEY due to a number of stubborn factors. You ask, from where will this $170,000 come? Me too. From where will the rest of the NIL money come? How will raising this NIL money impact the general donations to the Athletic Department? ETSU sure as heck can’t turn to increasing Student Athletic Fees!
02-19-2024 08:59 AM
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