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NIL AND ETSU
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etsubuc Offline
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Post: #21
RE: NIL AND ETSU
Doc Sander made a very good point in his recent video by mentioning some of the highly talented players that we had in the Forbes era and that we would never get those types of players today, even with an NIL in place, because other teams that we were competing against would always be able to pay more than we would. Forbes was able to put together a legitimate Sweet 16-type roster, something that likely will never be the case again.

The goal in men's and women's basketball should be to have the best talent and coaches in the conference, and then let the NCAA Tournament play out as it will. With football, the goal should be to have enough talent to compete in the FCS playoffs. I can imagine us getting an NIL collective together that would be able to accomplish this. I hope that we can also have enough money to recruit some of the best tennis and golf players to keep us nationally relevant in those sports. I'm afraid that some other sports such as soccer, cross country, and track/field might end up being cut or institutional support being substantially cut. Especially the men's versions of those sports.

All of this will likely have to come from a very select number of business owners, and for that to work we had better never have another anthem-type event occur that would alienate these particular individuals. The average fan isn't going to donate to an NIL or the "I Give A Buc" campaign which doesn't affect seating or other perks in enough capacity to make any difference. That's just not the way the world works.

And yes, I absolutely can see a time in the next few years where student athletic fees are quietly raised to make up for the shift in private donations going to the NIL instead of the athletic department.
02-19-2024 09:44 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: NIL AND ETSU
And let us not forget that there are about 351 teams in Division 1 basketball currently and the large majority are probably in the same situation as ETSU.
02-19-2024 10:39 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-19-2024 10:39 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  And let us not forget that there are about 351 teams in Division 1 basketball currently and the large majority are probably in the same situation as ETSU.

And — at the present trajectory, 70+ of those will separate from the rest. There’s complaining now from the top money chasers that granting auto bids to all Division I basketball conferences is “unfair”. Of course they want ALL the March Madness money going ONLY to themselves.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2024 04:13 PM by Buc66.)
02-19-2024 12:05 PM
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Etsuwins Offline
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Post: #24
RE: NIL AND ETSU
Lots of good discussion about NIL, & the Transfer Portal & lack of leadership from the NCAA but at the end of the day it still comes down to funding. ETSU athletics have never had the funding desired to maintain championship teams.

Why is that. Is it the lack of corporate monies in the Tri Cities. Is it Graduates can’t or won’t provide funding. Is it a lack of trying by the University.

There use to be an organization at ETSU called BASA. Where are they?
I haven’t seen or heard from that group in quite awhile. Do they even exist any longer. Seems like a university this size would have an organization dedicated to athletic funding.
02-19-2024 03:19 PM
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Buc'ed_Up Offline
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Post: #25
RE: NIL AND ETSU
I remember BASA. While the name may not exist anymore, the purpose of the foundation is still the same for a few different avenues for donation the school offers now. Some of them are The Excellence Fund, I Give A Buc, Champions Fund, and the newly formed NIL collective.
02-19-2024 10:18 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: NIL AND ETSU
I think Doc can get the funding from donors if we have the right coach. He got donors to up Forbes' pay several years ago. We just have made huge errors in hiring replacement coaches to take over when winning coaches move on.
02-19-2024 10:44 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NIL AND ETSU
The web site for our NIL just went up today.
02-20-2024 07:39 PM
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Buc'ed_Up Offline
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Post: #28
RE: NIL AND ETSU
NIL Website Link

https://bucsforgood.com/
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2024 02:38 PM by Buc'ed_Up.)
02-21-2024 02:38 PM
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Buc76 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: NIL AND ETSU
I don't know what will change the minds of the so called Buc Nation. I have advocated for major changes in Atlectics for years and get nothing but pushbach.

Dr Sander and Dr Noland have now publicly advertised, 'if ETSU doesn't join the ill conceived, no rules, pay for play NIL and upgrade the athlectic facilities, ETSU will fall future behind in Athlectics, especially in the money sports and will not be competitive, even at the socon level.

The majority of the posters on this board constantly express their desire for highly competitive money sports and on campus facilities, but in nearly every post want others, 'the big donors, etc to foot the bill.They make every excuse of why they can't pledge even $10 a month to have a successful Athletic Program.

Just today, a post was made along with a pic of a totally remodeled Dome that the poster said 'students deserved' How about all the players, coaches, suppot staff and the supporters that have barely kept ETSU Athlectics afloat. The amount of money student fees contribute to Athlectics is miniscule compared to our peer institutions and wouldn't make dent in the monies it would take to renovate the Dome, a 100 mil or more. No way that would happen even if ETSU had the money. They would build a stand alone basketball arena.

MONEY. MONEY absolutely. The cost to run highly successful money sports requires money at any level.
Recuiting, retaining best players, hiring/retaining coaches, hiring competent suppot staff, improving facilities.etc. You cannot fall short in any of these ares or the cost overcomes the resources.

Its a known fact that Furman, W Carolina, Samford and Chatt have an NIL Collective paying the best players. They all have older more experienced players. ETSU by contrast is way younger, less experienced. ETSU is a free team, while the above mentioned teams are paid teams. Who has the best teams, the NIL teams.That's the current situation.

Unfortunately ETSU and Buc Nation has never committed to having a continuous, successful Atlectics program. It's feast a little, famine a lot. Buc Nation now has the choice to shape the future. Feast or famine?

Buc Nation, I plead to you to embrace and support ETSU Athlectics.

GI BUCS
02-21-2024 04:52 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-21-2024 04:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I don't know what will change the minds of the so called Buc Nation. I have advocated for major changes in Atlectics for years and get nothing but pushbach.

Dr Sander and Dr Noland have now publicly advertised, 'if ETSU doesn't join the ill conceived, no rules, pay for play NIL and upgrade the athlectic facilities, ETSU will fall future behind in Athlectics, especially in the money sports and will not be competitive, even at the socon level.

The majority of the posters on this board constantly express their desire for highly competitive money sports and on campus facilities, but in nearly every post want others, 'the big donors, etc to foot the bill.They make every excuse of why they can't pledge even $10 a month to have a successful Athletic Program.

Just today, a post was made along with a pic of a totally remodeled Dome that the poster said 'students deserved' How about all the players, coaches, suppot staff and the supporters that have barely kept ETSU Athlectics afloat. The amount of money student fees contribute to Athlectics is miniscule compared to our peer institutions and wouldn't make dent in the monies it would take to renovate the Dome, a 100 mil or more. No way that would happen even if ETSU had the money. They would build a stand alone basketball arena.

MONEY. MONEY absolutely. The cost to run highly successful money sports requires money at any level.
Recuiting, retaining best players, hiring/retaining coaches, hiring competent suppot staff, improving facilities.etc. You cannot fall short in any of these ares or the cost overcomes the resources.

Its a known fact that Furman, W Carolina, Samford and Chatt have an NIL Collective paying the best players. They all have older more experienced players. ETSU by contrast is way younger, less experienced. ETSU is a free team, while the above mentioned teams are paid teams. Who has the best teams, the NIL teams.That's the current situation.

Unfortunately ETSU and Buc Nation has never committed to having a continuous, successful Atlectics program. It's feast a little, famine a lot. Buc Nation now has the choice to shape the future. Feast or famine?

Buc Nation, I plead to you to embrace and support ETSU Athlectics.

GI BUCS

^^^^^^^ What they said.
Also, consider that the SoCon first team all conference this year may be all paid players...
02-21-2024 05:11 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-21-2024 05:11 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-21-2024 04:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I don't know what will change the minds of the so called Buc Nation. I have advocated for major changes in Atlectics for years and get nothing but pushbach.

Dr Sander and Dr Noland have now publicly advertised, 'if ETSU doesn't join the ill conceived, no rules, pay for play NIL and upgrade the athlectic facilities, ETSU will fall future behind in Athlectics, especially in the money sports and will not be competitive, even at the socon level.

The majority of the posters on this board constantly express their desire for highly competitive money sports and on campus facilities, but in nearly every post want others, 'the big donors, etc to foot the bill.They make every excuse of why they can't pledge even $10 a month to have a successful Athletic Program.

Just today, a post was made along with a pic of a totally remodeled Dome that the poster said 'students deserved' How about all the players, coaches, suppot staff and the supporters that have barely kept ETSU Athlectics afloat. The amount of money student fees contribute to Athlectics is miniscule compared to our peer institutions and wouldn't make dent in the monies it would take to renovate the Dome, a 100 mil or more. No way that would happen even if ETSU had the money. They would build a stand alone basketball arena.

MONEY. MONEY absolutely. The cost to run highly successful money sports requires money at any level.
Recuiting, retaining best players, hiring/retaining coaches, hiring competent suppot staff, improving facilities.etc. You cannot fall short in any of these ares or the cost overcomes the resources.

Its a known fact that Furman, W Carolina, Samford and Chatt have an NIL Collective paying the best players. They all have older more experienced players. ETSU by contrast is way younger, less experienced. ETSU is a free team, while the above mentioned teams are paid teams. Who has the best teams, the NIL teams.That's the current situation.

Unfortunately ETSU and Buc Nation has never committed to having a continuous, successful Atlectics program. It's feast a little, famine a lot. Buc Nation now has the choice to shape the future. Feast or famine?

Buc Nation, I plead to you to embrace and support ETSU Athlectics.

GI BUCS

^^^^^^^ What they said.
Also, consider that the SoCon first team all conference this year may be all paid players...

Classic. At some point, these paid players will have to be declared employees and pay all the taxes that regular working stiffs pay. And, why a four year limit? Why not as long as a school is willing to pay them - NFL and NBA style? I don’t accept this pay-to-play since they’re already having their educational expenses covered and don’t exit in debt up to their necks (a national disaster) - like their fellow students who helped pay their expenses with athletic fees from borrowed student loans. And, who gives a rats behind what I think - ha?
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2024 06:43 PM by Buc66.)
02-21-2024 06:36 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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Post: #32
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-21-2024 06:36 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(02-21-2024 05:11 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-21-2024 04:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I don't know what will change the minds of the so called Buc Nation. I have advocated for major changes in Atlectics for years and get nothing but pushbach.

Dr Sander and Dr Noland have now publicly advertised, 'if ETSU doesn't join the ill conceived, no rules, pay for play NIL and upgrade the athlectic facilities, ETSU will fall future behind in Athlectics, especially in the money sports and will not be competitive, even at the socon level.

The majority of the posters on this board constantly express their desire for highly competitive money sports and on campus facilities, but in nearly every post want others, 'the big donors, etc to foot the bill.They make every excuse of why they can't pledge even $10 a month to have a successful Athletic Program.

Just today, a post was made along with a pic of a totally remodeled Dome that the poster said 'students deserved' How about all the players, coaches, suppot staff and the supporters that have barely kept ETSU Athlectics afloat. The amount of money student fees contribute to Athlectics is miniscule compared to our peer institutions and wouldn't make dent in the monies it would take to renovate the Dome, a 100 mil or more. No way that would happen even if ETSU had the money. They would build a stand alone basketball arena.

MONEY. MONEY absolutely. The cost to run highly successful money sports requires money at any level.
Recuiting, retaining best players, hiring/retaining coaches, hiring competent suppot staff, improving facilities.etc. You cannot fall short in any of these ares or the cost overcomes the resources.

Its a known fact that Furman, W Carolina, Samford and Chatt have an NIL Collective paying the best players. They all have older more experienced players. ETSU by contrast is way younger, less experienced. ETSU is a free team, while the above mentioned teams are paid teams. Who has the best teams, the NIL teams.That's the current situation.

Unfortunately ETSU and Buc Nation has never committed to having a continuous, successful Atlectics program. It's feast a little, famine a lot. Buc Nation now has the choice to shape the future. Feast or famine?

Buc Nation, I plead to you to embrace and support ETSU Athlectics.

GI BUCS

^^^^^^^ What they said.
Also, consider that the SoCon first team all conference this year may be all paid players...

Classic. At some point, these paid players will have to be declared employees and pay all the taxes that regular working stiffs pay. And, why a four year limit? Why not as long as a school is willing to pay them - NFL and NBA style? I don’t accept this pay-to-play since they’re already having their educational expenses covered and don’t exit in debt up to their necks (a national disaster) - like their fellow students who helped pay their expenses with athletic fees from borrowed student loans. And, who gives a rats behind what I think - ha?

Classic. At some point, these paid players will have to be declared employees and pay all the taxes that regular working stiffs pay.

That day is already here. NIL money is taxable as ordinary income. Going to be interesting to see if an employee/employer relationship evolves. That would make them benefit eligible and would bring OSHA, etc. into the picture.

You're preachin to the choir with me. I don't like this model at all, but like you, who cares about my opinion...
02-21-2024 10:12 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: NIL AND ETSU
An interesting take on one who helped usher in the NIL. What did Saban and his multi-million dollar paid fellow major league college coaches expect? Of course players, their parents, their siblings, their mentors, their friends, et al saw all this MONEY flowing to these colleges and these enormous coaches’ salaries. And, the NFL and NBA was not going to happen for large numbers of them. I’m surprised it has taken this long for them to want some of this MONEY. Of course there’s no such thing as a student-athlete anymore in major league college football and basketball - with some exceptions. So, bring on the pro model and dispense with the BS.



https://www.foxnews.com/sports/alabamas-...most-money
02-23-2024 09:09 AM
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ETSUFBSeasonHolder Offline
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Post: #34
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-21-2024 06:36 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(02-21-2024 05:11 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-21-2024 04:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I don't know what will change the minds of the so called Buc Nation. I have advocated for major changes in Atlectics for years and get nothing but pushbach.

Dr Sander and Dr Noland have now publicly advertised, 'if ETSU doesn't join the ill conceived, no rules, pay for play NIL and upgrade the athlectic facilities, ETSU will fall future behind in Athlectics, especially in the money sports and will not be competitive, even at the socon level.

The majority of the posters on this board constantly express their desire for highly competitive money sports and on campus facilities, but in nearly every post want others, 'the big donors, etc to foot the bill.They make every excuse of why they can't pledge even $10 a month to have a successful Athletic Program.

Just today, a post was made along with a pic of a totally remodeled Dome that the poster said 'students deserved' How about all the players, coaches, suppot staff and the supporters that have barely kept ETSU Athlectics afloat. The amount of money student fees contribute to Athlectics is miniscule compared to our peer institutions and wouldn't make dent in the monies it would take to renovate the Dome, a 100 mil or more. No way that would happen even if ETSU had the money. They would build a stand alone basketball arena.

MONEY. MONEY absolutely. The cost to run highly successful money sports requires money at any level.
Recuiting, retaining best players, hiring/retaining coaches, hiring competent suppot staff, improving facilities.etc. You cannot fall short in any of these ares or the cost overcomes the resources.

Its a known fact that Furman, W Carolina, Samford and Chatt have an NIL Collective paying the best players. They all have older more experienced players. ETSU by contrast is way younger, less experienced. ETSU is a free team, while the above mentioned teams are paid teams. Who has the best teams, the NIL teams.That's the current situation.

Unfortunately ETSU and Buc Nation has never committed to having a continuous, successful Atlectics program. It's feast a little, famine a lot. Buc Nation now has the choice to shape the future. Feast or famine?

Buc Nation, I plead to you to embrace and support ETSU Athlectics.

GI BUCS

^^^^^^^ What they said.
Also, consider that the SoCon first team all conference this year may be all paid players...

Classic. At some point, these paid players will have to be declared employees and pay all the taxes that regular working stiffs pay. And, why a four year limit? Why not as long as a school is willing to pay them - NFL and NBA style? I don’t accept this pay-to-play since they’re already having their educational expenses covered and don’t exit in debt up to their necks (a national disaster) - like their fellow students who helped pay their expenses with athletic fees from borrowed student loans. And, who gives a rats behind what I think - ha?

I don't understand this take I went to etsu got a math degree during my senior year would go to speak on my research on my UGR with my professor get paid for it due to my GPA I got a full ride. Why should I get paid for speaking at math Conferences and my fellow students not for their skills they bring to the university?
02-23-2024 01:05 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: NIL AND ETSU
ETSU is trying to do NIL the right way. It is a very good thing for the players and I am grateful they are getting it going. From what I understand it was never intended for what the big schools are doing with just large payments for play. In Doc we trust.
02-23-2024 03:31 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-23-2024 03:31 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  ETSU is trying to do NIL the right way. It is a very good thing for the players and I am grateful they are getting it going. From what I understand it was never intended for what the big schools are doing with just large payments for play. In Doc we trust.

Respectfully - I, personally, don’t see it as a good thing for the players long range. I still believe a college degree is more important long range than some NIL money short range. If the two, NIL pay and a degree, could be merged into a single complimentary structure - perhaps. But, that does not seem to be what is emerging with the NIL together with the Transfer Portal. My hard nose position - the athletes get their NIL money upon degree completion. But, many in this age of immediate gratification would likely describe that as pie-in-the-sky, fantasy land thinking. But the reality — like I said in another post — with the mega-millions flowing to the major league college athletic programs accompanied with the multi-million dollar coaches’ salaries — not to mention the elaborate athletic facilities — no wonder we’ve reached this place as it’s filtering down to the mid-majors that can least afford it. Plus - a pro system of pay to play is next.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2024 04:37 PM by Buc66.)
02-23-2024 04:28 PM
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Post: #37
RE: NIL AND ETSU
I will never understand why they did not treat athletes the same as other student workers. They could take the time athletes spend in games, official practice and team meetings etc., and pay them at the same rate as other students working in university jobs (library, dining halls, etc.) I understand that many athletes are on scholarship, but while I had an academic scholarship (although not a full ride by any means) I was still allowed to earn and keep money from my work in the cafeteria. I realize that due to the expense to the universities with this approach there might be limitations ( maybe only revenue generating sports) but at least athletes would have some spending money for all the time they spend generating revenue for the university, NCAA etc. While this approach seems reasonable and fair (keeping student athletes "student athletes") to me, I'm sure it has its flaws. Just throwing this out there for you guys to "shoot at". What are your thoughts?
02-23-2024 07:52 PM
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Post: #38
RE: NIL AND ETSU
(02-23-2024 07:52 PM)$80 Wrote:  I will never understand why they did not treat athletes the same as other student workers. They could take the time athletes spend in games, official practice and team meetings etc., and pay them at the same rate as other students working in university jobs (library, dining halls, etc.) I understand that many athletes are on scholarship, but while I had an academic scholarship (although not a full ride by any means) I was still allowed to earn and keep money from my work in the cafeteria. I realize that due to the expense to the universities with this approach there might be limitations ( maybe only revenue generating sports) but at least athletes would have some spending money for all the time they spend generating revenue for the university, NCAA etc. While this approach seems reasonable and fair (keeping student athletes "student athletes") to me, I'm sure it has its flaws. Just throwing this out there for you guys to "shoot at". What are your thoughts?

The student workers are "governed" by Financial Aide guidelines.
For the University to pay athletes is an NCAA violation, or it has been up until now. Who knows what the rules will be tomorrow.

Just some more things to think about.
02-23-2024 09:50 PM
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Post: #39
RE: NIL AND ETSU
The big schools breaking away in football makes sense.

Aside from a nice paycheck, and extremely rare occurances like 2021 against Vanderbilt, ETSU Football will never beat an FBS football team 99 times out of 100. Personally, I'd be happy to replace the annual game against a random FBS team that we're likely to loose and loose hard to with another FCS level team that's shooting for the same goal we are. It might not get us as much attention as playing the Vols or Tar Heels or whoever, but on the flip side that could turn what most years would be a guaranteed loss into a much more favorable tossup that we could possibly win.

Basketball is a bit harder for the big boys to really break apart. Connecticut, which has won numerous mens and womens national championships, is Group of 5 level as far as football goes. Villanova I think is FCS level football. You've got other schools like Gongaza and Loyola Chicago or Wichita that don't even have football, or in the case of Wichita, disbanded football decades ago.

A lot of people tune in to watch bracket busting upsets and cinderella runs also, which the last few seasons have brought some good ones. You cut out dozens of basketball teams just because they aren't in one of the main football conferences, and essentially wipe out dozens of games between both mens and womens baksetball, you'd pretty much kill March Madness, and aside from football, basketball is the only other college level sport that really brings in the cash.

Outside of football, I'm still curious as to how all of this conference realignment is going to impact travel for sports other then football. A lot of teams have gone from being in the position of only needed a decent bus or a short regional charter flight for road games, to now facing longer and more expensive cross country flights, possibly upwards 1 or 2 a week in some cases, plus all the added headache and risks that come from increased travel.

I could possibly see some conferences like the SoCon, Atlantic 10, or Big East that either don't sponsor football or are at FCS level having stability to an extent. A lot of the bigger SEC, Big 12, and Big Ten schools, and this will vary from school to school, may suddenly see athletes in academic trouble if they can't keep their grades up. Added stress from vastly increased travel can really hurt peoples health too. ETSU players in basketball or baseball aren't gonna be facing the prospects of a dozen of more red eye flights to and from mid season conference games across 2 or more time zones on a weekly or biweekly basis.

Aside from being expensive, stuff like that can and will take it's toll on players and coaches in terms of health, academic performance, and just overall quality of life.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2024 03:13 AM by ETSUfan#2.)
02-24-2024 02:14 AM
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Efan Offline
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Post: #40
RE: NIL AND ETSU
Hang on, don’t tell North Dakota St that an FBS school will beat them 99 times out of 100. Might be the other way around, actually. Heck, don’t tell ETSU that either. We beat NC State in 1988 (?) and won against Vandy in 2021. Assuming 33 years between those games, minus the 10 or so we didn’t play football, ETSU beats an FBS school once every 23 times. So wouldn’t automatically write those games off. With the roster Coach Lamb is building, we may put a big scare into App this fall. And I know you were just making a point, and I generally agree.

Personally, I hope the NCAA is in its last days. I would love to see a common sense organization pop up that somehow continues March Madness, fixes all the garbage with the college football playoffs and bowl system, quits letting trans men take opportunities from biological women, and creates some athlete-focused NIL rules. The NCAA has been ruined by those in charge and is absolutely worthless. Lately, they’ve been good for screwing up anything they touch. I’ll be glad to see them go.
02-24-2024 06:32 AM
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