From a post last month on Reddit:

"The 2013 and 2016 ACC Grant of Rights have been publicly available for some time. In the ACC’s lawsuit, they attached fully executed copies of these documents as exhibits 2 and 7. I’ll provide links in the comments.

The document(s) that the ACC will only allow the schools to view in North Carolina under guard and with prior permission are the ACC’s agreements with ESPN.

ACC member schools have to obtain permission to view the ESPN agreements, they have to travel to North Carolina to see them, they are not allowed to copy them, take pictures of them, or to take handwritten notes of the verbatim language of them.

The ACC filed a motion in their lawsuit against FSU to keep the ESPN agreement sealed and not available to the public, arguing that it was a trade secret."

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Could it have any to do with some self-serving dealings cooked up by a pair of UNC alums in retired ACC commissioner John Swofford (left) and deposed ESPN president John Skipper?

Might those folks now in charge at ESPN decide reaching a settlement is the more prudent option as opposed to getting dragged into courtrooms opposite partner schools?

Sigh.

I know the conspiracy theory reasons for things happening are always more fun, but there’s a pretty clear legal reason to do so: any copy of an agreement in the possession of a public university could be subject to the applicable FOIA statute. Now, even if a public university has a copy in its possession, it could still try to argue that it doesn’t need to be disclosed under a trade secret exception (which is pretty much in every FOIA statute). Still, having only a physical copy at the ACC office is an attempt to seal any doubt at all by eliminating any type of possession by any public university whatsoever.

This isn’t a judgment on whether that type of agreement should be disclosed publicly or not. Personally, I generally favor transparency. However, I completely understand from a legal perspective as to why the ACC keeps only a copy at its office because if any of its public university members had a copy, it likely would have been all over Reddit and the rest of the Internet already if someone could get request under a FOIA statute.

By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

This is the big thing to me. In a vacuum, the ACC's stated desire to keep everything secretive is highly suspicious. The Big 12's new agreement was immediately made public. The Pac's very public and excruciating negotiation played out over more than a year in the public eye. But the SEC still hasn't released details of an agreement that we reached years ago. The B1G released a 20% spread in value, which is way more guidance than we got from the SEC or ACC, but the B1G had a very self-serving reason to release the details of their contract as they felt it would further recruiting new schools and boost their perception amongst the public. Is it their fault that everyone just kind of assumed that $8.4b would be the number rather than $7b? I don't blame them for that, I think it was genius. I also don't blame the ACC or SEC for keeping our cards close to the vest.

How has nobody thought to just hire someone with photographic memory to go read the entire contract, then walk out and reproduce the entire document?

Hmmm, just read something interesting about "photographic memory":

Although the terms eidetic memory and photographic memory are popularly used interchangeably,[1] they are also distinguished, with eidetic memory referring to the ability to see an object for a few minutes after it is no longer present[3][4] and photographic memory referring to the ability to recall pages of text or numbers, or similar, in great detail.[5][6] When the concepts are distinguished, eidetic memory is reported to occur in a small number of children and is generally not found in adults,[3][7] while true photographic memory has never been demonstrated to exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory

Maybe nobody with a good approximation of photographic memory is interested in the ACC GoR.

(01-17-2024 01:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sigh.

I know the conspiracy theory reasons for things happening are always more fun,

That, and that here on the internet, everyone except my guy is incompetent, corrupt, and/or Machiavellian.

Makes more sense than the GoR being the one they were keeping secret.

For the same reasons that the ESPN-SEC media deal is secretive, and the Fox-B1G media deal is secretive. Private entities don’t want all their contracts made public…they would rather selectively leak information in order to make themselves look good, and not share competitive advantages with their foes.

(01-17-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  From a post last month on Reddit:

"The 2013 and 2016 ACC Grant of Rights have been publicly available for some time. In the ACC’s lawsuit, they attached fully executed copies of these documents as exhibits 2 and 7. I’ll provide links in the comments.

The document(s) that the ACC will only allow the schools to view in North Carolina under guard and with prior permission are the ACC’s agreements with ESPN.

ACC member schools have to obtain permission to view the ESPN agreements, they have to travel to North Carolina to see them, they are not allowed to copy them, take pictures of them, or to take handwritten notes of the verbatim language of them.

The ACC filed a motion in their lawsuit against FSU to keep the ESPN agreement sealed and not available to the public, arguing that it was a trade secret."

- - - - - - - - - -



Could it have any to do with some self-serving dealings cooked up by a pair of UNC alums in retired ACC commissioner John Swofford (left) and deposed ESPN president John Skipper?

Might those folks now in charge at ESPN decide reaching a settlement is the more prudent option as opposed to getting dragged into courtrooms opposite partner schools?

ESPN is just like that. Good luck finding the text of the ESPN"s contracts with the SEC or Big 12, or the NBA or MLB, or the one they just signed with the NCAA for non-FB non-MBB sprots.

Are other media companies like that? I suspect they are, but I don't know. I doubt that the NBA-Turner contract is publicly available, or the NCAA-CBS and NCAA-Turner contracts for the men's basketball tournament. Or the Big Ten contracts with Fox, CBS and NBC.

(01-17-2024 01:41 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

This is the big thing to me. In a vacuum, the ACC's stated desire to keep everything secretive is highly suspicious. The Big 12's new agreement was immediately made public.

Do we have that contract, or do we have a very detailed press release / planned set of leaks (63-37% split, $31.8 per school per year, ESPN pro rata Fox maybe maybe not)?

Did they publish the contract, or just release a bunch of important details?

Quote:The Pac's very public and excruciating negotiation played out over more than a year in the public eye.

of course, a lot of that was rumor that turned out to not be true. How many times were they "a couple of weeks" from signing a deal?

Quote:But the SEC still hasn't released details of an agreement that we reached years ago. The B1G released a 20% spread in value, which is way more guidance than we got from the SEC or ACC, but the B1G had a very self-serving reason to release the details of their contract as they felt it would further recruiting new schools and boost their perception amongst the public. Is it their fault that everyone just kind of assumed that $8.4b would be the number rather than $7b? I don't blame them for that, I think it was genius. I also don't blame the ACC or SEC for keeping our cards close to the vest.

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

You don't have ADs in the Big 10 and SEC complaining that they don't even know how much their TV deals pay. There is nothing like it anywhere else. And those complaints have been going on since Swofford was still there.

(01-17-2024 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

You don't have ADs in the Big 10 and SEC complaining

Fixed that for ya.

Quote:that they don't even know how much their TV deals pay.

FSU knows exactly how much money they're guaranteed, it's spelled out in their lawsuit file. They got THIS much "Tier One" money the first year of the contract, it increases by 4% a year every year.

Presumably, if ESPN picks up the option, it continues to increase by 4% a year through 2036.

The ACC Network money is variable, based on how many subscribers at in-state and out-of-market rates, how much the network spends through Raycom to produce the games etc. But so is the BTN and SEC Network money.

Quote:There is nothing like it anywhere else. And those complaints have been going on since Swofford was still there.

I can understand not wanting the contract to be made available to the public. What is curious to me is that copies were not provided to the Universities. Maybe they fear sunshine requests, but trade secrets and documents subject to attorney client privileges are generally excluded.

It’s curious.

(01-17-2024 01:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sigh.

I know the conspiracy theory reasons for things happening are always more fun, but there’s a pretty clear legal reason to do so: any copy of an agreement in the possession of a public university could be subject to the applicable FOIA statute. Now, even if a public university has a copy in its possession, it could still try to argue that it doesn’t need to be disclosed under a trade secret exception (which is pretty much in every FOIA statute). Still, having only a physical copy at the ACC office is an attempt to seal any doubt at all by eliminating any type of possession by any public university whatsoever.

This isn’t a judgment on whether that type of agreement should be disclosed publicly or not. Personally, I generally favor transparency. However, I completely understand from a legal perspective as to why the ACC keeps only a copy at its office because if any of its public university members had a copy, it likely would have been all over Reddit and the rest of the Internet already if someone could get request under a FOIA statute.

I don't think you need to sigh; people aren't as versed as you are in the legal space. We are proud to have you here to answer/debunk these thoughts.

(01-17-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  From a post last month on Reddit:

"The 2013 and 2016 ACC Grant of Rights have been publicly available for some time. In the ACC’s lawsuit, they attached fully executed copies of these documents as exhibits 2 and 7. I’ll provide links in the comments.

The document(s) that the ACC will only allow the schools to view in North Carolina under guard and with prior permission are the ACC’s agreements with ESPN.

ACC member schools have to obtain permission to view the ESPN agreements, they have to travel to North Carolina to see them, they are not allowed to copy them, take pictures of them, or to take handwritten notes of the verbatim language of them.

The ACC filed a motion in their lawsuit against FSU to keep the ESPN agreement sealed and not available to the public, arguing that it was a trade secret."

- - - - - - - - - -



Could it have any to do with some self-serving dealings cooked up by a pair of UNC alums in retired ACC commissioner John Swofford (left) and deposed ESPN president John Skipper?

Might those folks now in charge at ESPN decide reaching a settlement is the more prudent option as opposed to getting dragged into courtrooms opposite partner schools?

Because Dean Wormer handled it! Let's have a Toga party!

Or, perhaps Frank the Tank is correct that they were carved in stone, and therefore set in the Arc of the Covenant, and may only be retrieved by the High Priests on the day of atonement, when Ramses the UNC goat has the sins of the conference conferred upon his head and he is released into the wilderness to carry them away.

But what the ACC doesn't realize is that if Seminole Moses gets his hands on the two stone tablets he will cast them down and break them and they all will all wander in the desert for forty more years!

Therefore, they have to be locked away for the good of all, well at least some!

Fear. Even if other conferences guard their media agreements similarly, only in the ACC does it become an issue and a story because only the ACC is penning up member(s) who so desperately want out. If a university lost its collective mind and sought to leave the SEC or B1G, those strong & healthy conference would negotiate an exit and move on without ever letting things get to this point. Instead, the ACC doubles the guard on the bunker and whines about the ensuing circus. It reeks of weakness, and we can do circus far better than you can (the FSU Flying High Circus has been around since '47).

(01-17-2024 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  [quote='PeteTheChop' pid='19421243' dateline='1705513767']
But what the ACC doesn't realize is that if Seminole Moses gets his hands on the two stone tablets he will cast them down and break them and they all will all wander in the desert for forty more years!

Let my people go! If the ACC is smart, they'll come to the table before the plagues start.

(01-17-2024 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  From a post last month on Reddit:

"The 2013 and 2016 ACC Grant of Rights have been publicly available for some time. In the ACC’s lawsuit, they attached fully executed copies of these documents as exhibits 2 and 7. I’ll provide links in the comments.

The document(s) that the ACC will only allow the schools to view in North Carolina under guard and with prior permission are the ACC’s agreements with ESPN.

ACC member schools have to obtain permission to view the ESPN agreements, they have to travel to North Carolina to see them, they are not allowed to copy them, take pictures of them, or to take handwritten notes of the verbatim language of them.

The ACC filed a motion in their lawsuit against FSU to keep the ESPN agreement sealed and not available to the public, arguing that it was a trade secret."

- - - - - - - - - -



Could it have any to do with some self-serving dealings cooked up by a pair of UNC alums in retired ACC commissioner John Swofford (left) and deposed ESPN president John Skipper?

Might those folks now in charge at ESPN decide reaching a settlement is the more prudent option as opposed to getting dragged into courtrooms opposite partner schools?

Because Dean Wormer handled it! Let's have a Toga party!

Or, perhaps Frank the Tank is correct that they were carved in stone, and therefore set in the Arc of the Covenant, and may only be retrieved by the High Priests on the day of atonement, when Ramses the UNC goat has the sins of the conference conferred upon his head and he is released into the wilderness to carry them away.

But what the ACC doesn't realize is that if Seminole Moses gets his hands on the two stone tablets he will cast them down and break them and they all will all wander in the desert for forty more years!

Therefore, they have to be locked away for the good of all, well at least some!

The farther we get down the road, the more ridiculous Florida State looks.

Bad advice will yield bad results every time.

(01-17-2024 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

You don't have ADs in the Big 10 and SEC complaining that they don't even know how much their TV deals pay. There is nothing like it anywhere else. And those complaints have been going on since Swofford was still there.

If only they had the ability to discover this information, perhaps by going to take a look at the contract, or even by looking at last year's payout and adding 4.1% to it.

It is whatever it is. ACC deal will get negotiated, or it won't and will end up in court.

what ever will be will be.

(01-18-2024 07:56 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-17-2024 01:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  By the way, do you also want to post similar threads about conspiracies to keep the Big Ten and SEC media agreements so secretive as those haven’t been disclosed publicly, either?

You don't have ADs in the Big 10 and SEC complaining that they don't even know how much their TV deals pay. There is nothing like it anywhere else. And those complaints have been going on since Swofford was still there.

If only they had the ability to discover this information, perhaps by going to take a look at the contract, or even by looking at last year's payout and adding 4.1% to it.

Or downloading a PDF of Florida state's lawsuit filing..

Seriously that doesn't give a complete picture, because it doesn't give any accounting of the ACC Network money.

But I'm sure they have reasonably good projections and estimates of that, those projections and estimates being less reliable the further you go into the future.