Some of you guys don't understand plain English. I have not been "tricked" into anything and I never said anyone should compromise their values.

And never mind I give up. Bible thump all you want while our country swirls down the drain. The vast majority of the world doesn't believe what you believe and you aren't changing their minds.

(01-10-2024 05:07 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Some of you guys don't understand plain English. I have not been "tricked" into anything and I never said anyone should compromise their values.

And never mind I give up. Bible thump all you want while our country swirls down the drain. The vast majority of the world doesn't believe what you believe and you aren't changing their minds.

You just illustrated my point in real time. Simply standing up for our values is "bible thumping".

I rest my case.

That vast majority of the world does not believe what YOU believe either Bartlett, and you aren't changing their minds. And so the country swirls down the drain.

(01-09-2024 07:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:21 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:09 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:06 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:05 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Nope, I'd be pretty happy with non-lifetime appointments and real ethics rules that applied and had teeth. Highly doubt the founders intended on having judges on the court for 40+ years and for there to basically be no rules that apply to them at all. The idea anyone qualified enough to be on the court would have lived 40 more years back in those days would have been pretty hard to imagine, and I know they thought impeachment was a real check on them that political realities have made meaningless.

Term limits across the board for everyone.

Yep, start with Congress and work your way up. You can't approve of lifetime congress critters and then complain about the Supreme Court.

Agree regarding Congress, but there is at least some recourse (albeit in some cases near impossible depending on Gerrymandering, location, and money) to get rid of people in Congress. There's 1 way to get rid of a SC justice right now, impeachment, and been rendered essentially impossible. There's effectively zero "check" on the SC at this point and that's not healthy long term no matter what your political views are.

I don't want the response to our broken systems of checks and balances to be to pack the court, do that once and essentially every time power changes hands in Washington you'll just have the "winning" side increasing the number of judges to get their team in the majority until you have some comedic number. The number is fine, and IMO the mechanism of the President selecting them and the Senate confirming them is fine as well. It's them being there for life and having no rules at all that apply to them that's the problem.

You entirely miss the point of checks and balances. Congress legislates. Presidents execute. Courts interpret and are appointed by president with approval by the Senate.

Any more control and the court is not a check on Congress or the president.

Yes you've named how they are a check on Congressional and Executive power, but what checks are there currently on their power and if they abuse their power?

(01-10-2024 05:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 07:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:21 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:09 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:06 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Term limits across the board for everyone.

Yep, start with Congress and work your way up. You can't approve of lifetime congress critters and then complain about the Supreme Court.

Agree regarding Congress, but there is at least some recourse (albeit in some cases near impossible depending on Gerrymandering, location, and money) to get rid of people in Congress. There's 1 way to get rid of a SC justice right now, impeachment, and been rendered essentially impossible. There's effectively zero "check" on the SC at this point and that's not healthy long term no matter what your political views are.

I don't want the response to our broken systems of checks and balances to be to pack the court, do that once and essentially every time power changes hands in Washington you'll just have the "winning" side increasing the number of judges to get their team in the majority until you have some comedic number. The number is fine, and IMO the mechanism of the President selecting them and the Senate confirming them is fine as well. It's them being there for life and having no rules at all that apply to them that's the problem.

You entirely miss the point of checks and balances. Congress legislates. Presidents execute. Courts interpret and are appointed by president with approval by the Senate.

Any more control and the court is not a check on Congress or the president.

Yes you've named how they are a check on Congressional and Executive power, but what checks are there currently on their power and if they abuse their power?

Failed education.
There is no abuse of power. That's just you drinking DNC Kool-Aid. It makes you look stupid.

1. They are appointed by the president.
2. They are confirmed by Congress.
3. They can be impeached for improper conduct.
4. Up to the Supreme Court, there is always appeal.
5. There are 9 members of the Supreme Court to check on each other.

The Supreme Court can't write laws. That's Congress. They can't execute laws. That's the President. That Congress and the President can't control them after appointed is the only reason they can serve as a check on the President and Congress.

And if the Supreme Court interprets a law one way, Congress can pass a new law with a different meaning.

If Congress doesn't like something like the Dred Scott decision, they can pass a constitutional amendment banning slavery.

(01-10-2024 10:12 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:57 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:54 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Just rewrite the laws to accommodate

If you don't win elections, you don't rewrite any laws. If you piss off half the country, you aren't likely to win elections.

I’m just a messenger. People will decide their own demise or turn away from what will surely lead to their downfall.

I’m not into forcing or enforcing what others do but have no problem pointing out the repercussions.

You might not see it but that is exactly what you are trying to do....

force your views on to others. Your beliefs are yours and from everything I've read from your posts they are based on what you believe the bible states. What's I'm getting ready to say doesn't mean I don't believe mostly what your main thoughts on this are.

But just because you or I or 250 million other Americans might believe something close. It doesn't mean you get to force those beliefs onto other people. Just like you hate it when gays or trans or any other group tries to force their beliefs on you and expect you to accept them.

A lot of people and the numbers are growing every year don't live their life by the bible. So my question is how does it hurt you other than your beliefs in the written word if two gay people get married? Why is it your beliefs are more important than anyone else? It has no barring on you and doesn't change your life in any way.

Lets be clear about something, the bible has 100s of things in it that was written and was thought of as being proper....

that we now have laws outlawing. You probably agree with most of those and one is marriage to a underage girl. So if its the "written word" that are you so concerned with being changed. Why aren't you and others fight to uphold all the "written words" as I pointed out?

Then there is this

"Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

I might be mistaken but I believe the "written word" in this case is telling me to obey the laws that I live under and if I don't that is probably just as big of a sin as two men marrying....

If you believe all of the "written word" the part in quotes seems to be telling you that while you, or God, might not agree with something that goes against your morals. The law of the land is just as important to follow as your beliefs. It's not telling you to give up your beliefs but follow the law. Or is this a part of the "written word" that we get to pick and choose to ignore?

(01-10-2024 06:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  If Congress doesn't like something like the Dred Scott decision, they can pass a constitutional amendment banning slavery.

100% correct the SC is there to rule on the laws written by congress and passed into law, accordingly to our constitution. Congress can always go back and rewrite that same law to fit a SC ruling. As you said if they wanted to and have the votes/states they can amend the constitution.

So that is part of the check and balancing

(01-11-2024 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 10:12 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:57 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:54 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Just rewrite the laws to accommodate

If you don't win elections, you don't rewrite any laws. If you piss off half the country, you aren't likely to win elections.

I’m just a messenger. People will decide their own demise or turn away from what will surely lead to their downfall.

I’m not into forcing or enforcing what others do but have no problem pointing out the repercussions.

You might not see it but that is exactly what you are trying to do....

force your views on to others. Your beliefs are yours and from everything I've read from your posts they are based on what you believe the bible states. What's I'm getting ready to say doesn't mean I don't believe mostly what your main thoughts on this are.

But just because you or I or 250 million other Americans might believe something close. It doesn't mean you get to force those beliefs onto other people. Just like you hate it when gays or trans or any other group tries to force their beliefs on you and expect you to accept them.

A lot of people and the numbers are growing every year don't live their life by the bible. So my question is how does it hurt you other than your beliefs in the written word if two gay people get married? Why is it your beliefs are more important than anyone else? It has no barring on you and doesn't change your life in any way.

Lets be clear about something, the bible has 100s of things in it that was written and was thought of as being proper....

that we now have laws outlawing. You probably agree with most of those and one is marriage to a underage girl. So if its the "written word" that are you so concerned with being changed. Why aren't you and others fight to uphold all the "written words" as I pointed out?

Then there is this

"Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

I might be mistaken but I believe the "written word" in this case is telling me to obey the laws that I live under and if I don't that is probably just as big of a sin as two men marrying....

If you believe all of the "written word"

Respectfully, your a fool if you don't see the unbelievable damage the celebration of homosexuality, gender confusion and tranny obsession has on the youth and people of a culture. Perhaps you do see that and if so good.

You don't have to be a Christian at all to see the damage and degenerative effects sexual deviancy and depravity has on a society, all you have to have is a set of eyes and shred or morality and honesty about you. Secular psychologists tells us just straight pornography alone has an incredibly destructive effect on people and their sexual, emotional and physiological health, When you add in homosexuality, gender confusion and every other form of sodom like depravity the effects are 100 fold.

We can hide behind excuses like religious or bible bashing all you want, but the simply fact is if that is so then you are willingly closing your eyes and ears to one of the biggest issues with the moral decay of our society.

The idea that standing up for our values is wrong and pushing them on others is asenine. THAT IS WHAT DEMOCRACY IS, STANDING UP AND VOTING FOR YOUR VALUES. You don't have to sit down and be quiet just becuase someone out there might disagree with you. That is not democracy, its fascism and communism. We speak out and stand up for our vaules, and make our arguments for them.

We can either keep our eyes wide shut on this and play dumb to the facts, or we can stand up and admit we can't fix this problem through the courts. But that does not mean we can stand up and say this stuff is ultimately totally destructive on our youth and our society as a whole and not be scared to stand up and say these things are wrong and they are bad for us and your not ashamed to shout that from the rooftops.

And if you are going to quote scripture, actually understand the point and context of the scripture. Because the context you trying to use it is is NOT the context of that passage even remotely or what the Bible teach on this at all. The Bible teaches flat out Christians are suppose to stand up against sin and depravity in their communities and culture. There is an entire universe of difference between not obeying the law and calling a man made law immoral and destructive.

(01-11-2024 12:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2024 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 10:12 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:57 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-10-2024 09:54 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Just rewrite the laws to accommodate

If you don't win elections, you don't rewrite any laws. If you piss off half the country, you aren't likely to win elections.

I’m just a messenger. People will decide their own demise or turn away from what will surely lead to their downfall.

I’m not into forcing or enforcing what others do but have no problem pointing out the repercussions.

You might not see it but that is exactly what you are trying to do....

force your views on to others. Your beliefs are yours and from everything I've read from your posts they are based on what you believe the bible states. What's I'm getting ready to say doesn't mean I don't believe mostly what your main thoughts on this are.

But just because you or I or 250 million other Americans might believe something close. It doesn't mean you get to force those beliefs onto other people. Just like you hate it when gays or trans or any other group tries to force their beliefs on you and expect you to accept them.

A lot of people and the numbers are growing every year don't live their life by the bible. So my question is how does it hurt you other than your beliefs in the written word if two gay people get married? Why is it your beliefs are more important than anyone else? It has no barring on you and doesn't change your life in any way.

Lets be clear about something, the bible has 100s of things in it that was written and was thought of as being proper....

that we now have laws outlawing. You probably agree with most of those and one is marriage to a underage girl. So if its the "written word" that are you so concerned with being changed. Why aren't you and others fight to uphold all the "written words" as I pointed out?

Then there is this

"Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

I might be mistaken but I believe the "written word" in this case is telling me to obey the laws that I live under and if I don't that is probably just as big of a sin as two men marrying....

If you believe all of the "written word"

Respectfully, your a fool if you don't see the unbelievable damage the celebration of homosexuality, gender confusion and tranny obsession has on the youth and people of a culture. Perhaps you do see that and if so good.

You don't have to be a Christian at all to see the damage and degenerative effects sexual deviancy and depravity has on a society, all you have to have is a set of eyes and shred or morality and honesty about you. Secular psychologists tells us just straight pornography alone has an incredibly destructive effect on people and their sexual, emotional and physiological health, When you add in homosexuality, gender confusion and every other form of sodom like depravity the effects are 100 fold.

We can hide behind excuses like religious or bible bashing all you want, but the simply fact is if that is so then you are willingly closing your eyes and ears to one of the biggest issues with the moral decay of our society.

We can either keep your eyes wide shut on this and play dumb to the facts, or you can stand up and say we can't fix this problem with law and the courts, but that doe snot mean we can stand up and say this stuff is ultimately totally destructive on our youth and our society as a whole and not be scared to stand up and say these things are wrong and they are bad for us and your not ashamed to shout that from the rooftops.

And if you are going to quote scripture, actual understand the point and context of the scripture. Because the context you trying to use it is is NOT the context of that passage even remotely or what the Bible teach on this at all. The Bible teaches flat out Christians are suppose dot stand up against sin and depravity in their communities and culture. There is an entire universe of difference between not obeying the law and calling a man made law immoral and destructive.

You seem to be under the impression you get to force what you believe in on other people.....

people like you are helping to destroy this country just as much as those you point out. Both sides are dangerous and in my opinion damn idiots. Not all Christians, not all gay people, but people like you that want to force their belief onto everyone else.

You should work on saving yourself because people like you are most likely going straight to hell. Since you believe the days are very limited. You better start on it today instead of preaching at others.

But before you start trying to save yourself why dont you tell us why the part I quoted really means?

(01-11-2024 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You might not see it but that is exactly what you are trying to do....

force your views on to others. Your beliefs are yours and from everything I've read from your posts they are based on what you believe the bible states. What's I'm getting ready to say doesn't mean I don't believe mostly what your main thoughts on this are.

But just because you or I or 250 million other Americans might believe something close. It doesn't mean you get to force those beliefs onto other people. Just like you hate it when gays or trans or any other group tries to force their beliefs on you and expect you to accept them.

People have got to stop running to this totally absurd point.

Standing up for your values is what democracy is, stop painting it as an evil or unfair act. This is democracy 101, you stand up, speak out, support and fight for your values and ideals. The people on the left can do this, the people on the right can do this. Christians can do this, the LGBTQ loons can do this.

ITS CALLED DEMOCRACY.

And this dishonest antidemocratic tactic is typically only used to try and tell Christians to shut up and sit down. NO, were not going to shut up and sit down. We have just as much right to speak out and fight for our values as everyone else in this country does.

(01-11-2024 01:09 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You seem to be under the impression you get to force what you believe in on other people.....

people like you are helping to destroy this country just as much as those you point out. Both sides are dangerous and in my opinion damn idiots. Not all Christians, not all gay people, but people like you that want to force their belief onto everyone else.

You should work on saving yourself because people like you are most likely going straight to hell. Since you believe the days are very limited. You better start on it today instead of preaching at others.

But before you start trying to save yourself why dont you tell us why the part I quoted really means?

Now you are just making a complete ass of yourself.

I'm going to hell because I dare tell people sexual immorality and depravity are verifiably destructive even by secular standards?

I'm destroying the country because I dare say these things are dangerous and destructive on a society? Do you realize how totally absurd you sound right now?

I did not remotely advocate for anything extreme here at all, all I did was point out its not wrong to tell people these things are verifiably destructive for a society on multiple levels. There is nothing remotely extreme about anything I said, yet look at the loony response it triggered you into. I did not not tell you you were going to hell or anything of the sort, but now you are telling me I am going to hell just for that?

You need to take a step back here and look in the mirror. I'm not the one who is talking crazy and getting personally judgmental on an absurd level. YOU are the one doing that very thing.

Your hypocrisy is off the charts.

(01-11-2024 01:23 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2024 01:09 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You seem to be under the impression you get to force what you believe in on other people.....

people like you are helping to destroy this country just as much as those you point out. Both sides are dangerous and in my opinion damn idiots. Not all Christians, not all gay people, but people like you that want to force their belief onto everyone else.

You should work on saving yourself because people like you are most likely going straight to hell. Since you believe the days are very limited. You better start on it today instead of preaching at others.

But before you start trying to save yourself why dont you tell us why the part I quoted really means?

Now you are just making a complete ass of yourself.

I'm going to hell because I dare tell people sexual immorality and depravity are verifiably destructive even by secular standards?

I'm destroying the country because I dare say these things are dangerous and destructive on a society? Do you realize how totally absurd you sound right now?

I did not remotely advocate for anything extreme here at all, all I did was point out its not wrong to tell people these things are verifiably destructive for a society on multiple levels. There is not remotely extreme about anything I said, yet look at the loony response it triggered you into. I did not not tell you you were going to hell or anything of the sort, but now you are telling me I am going to hell just for that?

You need to take a step back here and look in the mirror. I'm not the one who is talking crazy and getting personally judgmental on an absurd level. YOU are the one doing that very thing.

Your hypocrisy is off the charts.

Once again you are preaching but you failed to answer the question I asked

Go ahead and tell me what the verse I quoted means? You said I missed quoted it so explain to me how the "written word" really doesn't mean what it says. Here let me quote the actual text Romans chapter 13 1-7. Just to be clear and you knew this in the first place in America we are govern by laws and I think the below text is dealing with that. No where did I say you have to accept anything you disagree with on your beliefs. What I said was the bible is telling you you must live by those laws and accept them. If that's wrong go ahead and tell me and back it up.

"1Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed."


The reason you need to work on yourself, you have a really bad habit of preaching against thing you dont agree with and judging. You use the excuse that the bile tells you to do this.

But then you just ignore other parts. But let me guess it really doesn't mean what it says?

Romans chapter 14
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? "
"

(01-11-2024 01:57 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Once again you are preaching but you failed to answer the question I asked

I literally did not not preach to you on anything. I made a moral argument you do not even have to be Christian to agree with and pointed out how even secular psychologists agree these things are destructive on multiple levels.

Its you and you alone who keeps dragging my religious faith into the discussion and attacking me based on my religious faith, even to the point of telling me I am going to hell for simply saying these things are dangerous and destructive (something I never remotely said to or about you). You and you alone are the one quoting scripture in the thread and you one are the one telling posters they are going to hell. I did not do anything of the sort here. You are the one who is completely of the rails.

I could explain (a second time) why you are using that passage out of context but what would be the point? You didn't listen the first time, you don't even care about the context of the passage. No one here advocated for breaking any laws, and following the law does not mean we cannot stand up and say a man made law is immoral and destructive and needs to be changed. That is the very context you tried to paint that passage as and that is NOT the context it is written under.

Again, you do not even really care about the context or what that passages says at all. All you are doing is trying to deflect away as fast as possible from the fact that I made a very reasonable non religious post that you responded to with an epic meltdown telling me I was going to hell and a bunch of other loony tunes nonsense that did not reflect anything I actually said. You just reflexively attacked me because I was a Christian, not for the things I actually posted and said.

I never brought personal judgment on who is going to hell or religion into it at all, YOU and YOU ALONE did that.

Your are being totally dishonest and a massive hypocrite on all of this and anyone reading this can see that.

(01-11-2024 01:57 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Romans chapter 14
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? "
"

If you had ever just once in your life actually read Romans 14, you would have known that passage has nothing under the sun to do with anything we are talking about here. Paul is telling the Romans in the church not to attack each other over Sabbath keeping, new moons,keeping OT feast days and what food they eat or refuse to eat because none of these things are sinful behaviors under the New covenant. For Israel under the OT covenant, not doing some of those things was sinful and breaking the OT covenant. Paul is reaffirming here that none of those things are requirements for the Gentiles under the New Covenant and thus doing or not doing them is in no way sinful so they are not to quarrel and judge each other about them. If someone wants to keep the sabbath, new moon or a feast day its fine, if others choose not to its fine. None of it is sin for Gentiles under the New covenant.

If you want some actual scriptures on standing against sin and sexual immorality and making righteous judgments about sin I can quote them for you because the NT is filled with them.

Do yourself a big favor and stop quoting passages you have never even bothered to read and have no idea what they are even talking about.

All you are doing is making yourself look really foolish and stupid and I think you have done enough of that already in your last few posts.