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Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
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emu79 Offline
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Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
Yes a few teams are done with their non conference schedule for the year and a few more like us have one more game. Most pundits had EMU and CMU fighting for the bottom of the MAC this year. The good news is that both of those teams have been replaced by others. So lets start from the top:

Bowling Green at 9-3 and 6-1 at home and on a 7 game win streak. The surprise story of the year with a new coach. Lucky us we get to play them at home to open the conference schedule.

Akron always a top 4 MAC team, currently 8-3, 5-0 at home and on a 4 game win streak. They have one more game with St Bonaventure.

Ball State-the other surprise team. Despite losing players like Sparks Ball State is 8-4 7-0 at home but on a two game losing streak.

Kent St-another top 4 tier team year after year. They are currently 7-4 with a game with St Mary's CA tomorrow. Not the dominant team of last year though. We play them the first week of conference play.

NIU-thought early this season they take another step up the tier after beating DePaul early. Currently 6-5 with a game with Iowa tomorrow. NIU has played a pretty tough non conference slate.

Ohio-usually a top 4 team in the MAC. Currently 6-5. No this is not their year it appears to make some noise. Have a game with Davidson.

EMU-6-5 yep 4-1 at home with a game at Northwood. Yes I think we've surprised folks this year with Acuff really coming on. Did our non conference schedule prepare us for the conference play? We will find out.

Toledo-wow 6-6. That's got to be a disappointment. .500 club?

Miami OH-5-6 with a game tomorrow. The living definition of lukewarm in the MAC.

CMU-5-6 with a game with Loyola tomorrow. Hey maybe Tony got lucky this year and actually has some horses to compete. Don't worry they will all transfer out next year if it happens.

WMU-2-9 and on a 5 game losing streak. They should beat Aquinas tomorrow well maybe. Young players not developing and injuries. Stephens misses MSU.

Buffalo- new coach just horrible 1-10 with Niagara tomorrow. Eight game losing steak. Once a proud program in shambles.
12-28-2023 05:11 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
Got to feel for UB. They develop coaches for the big boys in MBB and FB.

It is get a good coach, lose him, hire another good coach and lose him. Hire another coach and ugh. Luck runs out.
12-28-2023 05:35 PM
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KPJ Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(12-28-2023 05:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Got to feel for UB. They develop coaches for the big boys in MBB and FB.

It is get a good coach, lose him, hire another good coach and lose him. Hire another coach and ugh. Luck runs out.

That’s kinda success in the MAC across the board.
12-28-2023 05:45 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(12-28-2023 05:45 PM)KPJ Wrote:  
(12-28-2023 05:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Got to feel for UB. They develop coaches for the big boys in MBB and FB.

It is get a good coach, lose him, hire another good coach and lose him. Hire another coach and ugh. Luck runs out.

That’s kinda success in the MAC across the board.

Yeah, Hurley, Oats, Leipold, etc. But we have a former coordinator trying for a national championship.
12-28-2023 05:49 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
2023/24 MAC Conference in the NET Rankings as of 12/28. (Records are D1 only)

122 Akron (6-4)
130 Kent St. (5-5)
159 Toledo (6-6)
163 Bowling Green (7-3)
195 Ohio (5-6)
199 NIU (4-6)
232 Miami (OH) (4-6)
251 Ball St. (6-4)
296 Western Mich. (2-9)
301 Eastern Mich. (5-5)
324 Central Mich. (4-7)
352 Buffalo (0-11)

This original post has been updated with NET rankings as of 01/01/24. Non-conference schedule now complete for all teams.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2024 09:33 AM by RamyEMU.)
12-28-2023 05:50 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
Thanks for the write up, ‘79! I posted the NET computer rankings above to provide some to help with comparison since strength of schedules differ so much. Unfortunately, EMU does not factor as highly as we would have thought.

But posted before, I think skewed by their excessive margin of defeat to their top two opponents and their narrow margin of victory over (several) low ranked teams. I would suggest that EMU is closer to a 200 ranking the 300 if you account for those skewed factors. Which would put us more on par with Miami and Ball St competing to be the leader of the bottom half of the conference. Not great, but not horrible. Time will tell if my theory is correct.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2023 06:00 PM by RamyEMU.)
12-28-2023 05:57 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(12-28-2023 05:45 PM)KPJ Wrote:  
(12-28-2023 05:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Got to feel for UB. They develop coaches for the big boys in MBB and FB.

It is get a good coach, lose him, hire another good coach and lose him. Hire another coach and ugh. Luck runs out.

That’s kinda success in the MAC across the board.

Buffalo fired their most recent basketball coach last year for going 9-9 in the conference (15-17 overall). They probably had more talent then that result would suggest, but I thought it was a hasty decision given Coach Whitesell prior 3 years were pretty solid. Their new Coach Halcovage lost alot of players, so too soon to tell if this was a mistake and if so how costly of a mistake. Certainly not looking good so far.
12-28-2023 06:12 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
2023/24 EMU Non Conference Results
(Opponent NET Ranking in parenthesis)

@Butler ( 55 ) Lost 94-55
vsGeorgiaSouther ( 334 ) Won 70-60
@FAU ( 6 ) Lost 100-57
vsClevelandSt ( 173 ) Won 69-62
@DetroitM ( 352 ) Won 76-72
@CentralArk ( 355 ) Won 74-71
nNorthDakota ( 247 ) Lost 72-70
vsLakeSuperior ( D2 ) Won 68-53
vsOakland ( 131 ) Lost 77-63
@Michigan ( 68 ) Lost 83-66
vsHampton ( 332 ) Won 72-69
vsNorthwood ( D2 ) TBD

I did this same thing last year if anyone is interested in the comparison…
https://csnbbs.com/thread-962534-post-18...id18697024
12-28-2023 09:22 PM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
For me, EMU played 3 games that MAC teams have no reasonable shot at winning (lost all 3) and conversely 6 games no MAC team should lose to (won all 6 pending Northwood results).

So my assessment of this team comes down to 3 games that I am using as a predictor for MAC play:
vsClevelandSt ( 173 ) Won 69-62
nNorthDakota ( 247 ) Lost 72-70
vsOakland ( 131 ) Lost 77-63

EMU will likely get dominated by the MAC leaders, but should be in any other game they play. That said, they played most of the non-conference without their second best player, and have a lot of still young or new players contributing. So if things continue to develop, hopefully EMU will win a slight majority of their MAC games… here is to hoping… Go EMU!!!
12-28-2023 09:48 PM
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(12-28-2023 09:48 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  For me, EMU played 3 games that MAC teams have no reasonable shot at winning (lost all 3) and conversely 6 games no MAC team should lose to (won all 6 pending Northwood results).

So my assessment of this team comes down to 3 games that I am using as a predictor for MAC play:
vsClevelandSt ( 173 ) Won 69-62
nNorthDakota ( 247 ) Lost 72-70
vsOakland ( 131 ) Lost 77-63

EMU will likely get dominated by the MAC leaders, but should be in any other game they play. That said, they played most of the non-conference without their second best player, and have a lot of still young or new players contributing. So if things continue to develop, hopefully EMU will win a slight majority of their MAC games… here is to hoping… Go EMU!!!

Why even schedule Oakland anymore?
12-30-2023 10:05 AM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(12-28-2023 05:50 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  2023/24 MAC Conference in the NET Rankings as of 12/28. (Records are D1 only)

118 Kent St. (5-4)
123 Akron (6-3)
152 Toledo (6-6)
174 Bowling Green (7-3)
188 Ohio (5-5)
191 NIU (4-5)
225 Miami (OH) (4-6)
241 Ball St. (6-4)
290 Eastern Mich. (5-5)
293 Western Mich. (2-9)
308 Central Mich. (4-6)
348 Buffalo (0-10)

Will update this post after non-conference completes. But not likely to change much.

122 Akron (6-4)
130 Kent St. (5-5)
159 Toledo (6-6)
163 Bowling Green (7-3)
195 Ohio (5-6)
199 NIU (4-6)
232 Miami (OH) (4-6)
251 Ball St. (6-4)
296 Western Mich. (2-9)
301 Eastern Mich. (5-5)
324 Central Mich. (4-7)
352 Buffalo (0-11)

Updating here and in my origin post. NET Rankings as of 01/01/2024 (all non-conference games complete).
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2024 09:27 AM by RamyEMU.)
01-01-2024 09:26 AM
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RamyEMU Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
I do think this EMU team is better than their NET ranking. Things that really hurt/skew their ranking were the huge losses to Butler and FAU as well as narrow margin of victory against worse teams like DetroitMercy and Hampton. In these four games, the EMU team just gave up- ie, played well against Butler for about 25 minutes before conceding a 39 point loss, and were dominating both Detroit and Hampton before letting them back in the game at the end.

I am mentioning this as factors that skew the NET rankings. But they are also a poor characteristic of the team that may lead to poor results in the MAC. They need to learn to play hard for the full 40 minutes. They also need to avoid the lapses in the middle of the game where they seem to not know what to do leading to bad shots and unforced turnovers. If this continues, we will all be very frustrated by MAC results.

If they can manage/minimize this tendency, as well as have both Lovejoy and TyCuff healthy, then they can easily be a middle of the pack team. And as Nickle and Glory are pointing out, no one in the MAC is dominant this year, so EMU could play with anyone so long as they put in the full 40 minutes.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2024 09:53 AM by RamyEMU.)
01-01-2024 09:50 AM
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Luckeyone Offline
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RE: Mid America Men's Basketball Non Conference Discussion
(01-01-2024 09:50 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I do think this EMU team is better than their NET ranking. Things that really hurt/skew their ranking were the huge losses to Butler and FAU as well as narrow margin of victory against worse teams like DetroitMercy and Hampton. In these four games, the EMU team just gave up- ie, played well against Butler for about 25 minutes before conceding a 39 point loss, and were dominating both Detroit and Hampton before letting them back in the game at the end.

I am mentioning this as factors that skew the NET rankings. But they are also a poor characteristic of the team that may lead to poor results in the MAC. They need to learn to play hard for the full 40 minutes. They also need to avoid the lapses in the middle of the game where they seem to not know what to do leading to bad shots and unforced turnovers. If this continues, we will all be very frustrated by MAC results.

If they can manage/minimize this tendency, as well as have both Lovejoy and TyCuff healthy, then they can easily be a middle of the pack team. And as Nickle and Glory are pointing out, no one in the MAC is dominant this year, so EMU could play with anyone so long as they put in the full 40 minutes.

Akron is head and shoulders above the second place MAC school. Akron will dominate.
01-01-2024 11:55 AM
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