(12-20-2023 04:56 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 04:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 05:36 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 05:20 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Or go to an A&M system school and just transfer to College Station.

For comparison, Texas has a moving target, right now it's top 6% for auto acceptance, but that number could and probably will drop even lower over time.

UT has this, too.

UTArlington has recently stopped.

I hadn't seen that, program is still up on the website. When did UTA stop?

In 2020 when my son applied, they were not doing automatic admission to Austin. They were trying to strengthen their own student base. He had a good offer from them, in state tuition and a small scholarship, but that was during the pandemic so he couldn't even visit.

(12-19-2023 02:18 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 09:39 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Its obvious UT and TAMU would be a lot more selective if they didn't let so many grads into it.

Probably, but A&M’s philosophy on this is that instead of trying to pursue truly elite national all school rankings, the goal is to be a Top 25 AAU public school that still focuses on being an accessible public school for the citizens of the state of Texas, particularly first generation students.

Personally I’m very happy with that and that’s what a public university should be instead of limiting enrollment and letting in mostly foreign and out of state kids to to try and pursue rankings over state citizens

I like that a lot, and that is something I would like UGA to aspire to as well. As a father to a 9 yr old boy who's somewhat similar to me, I see my son probably going to a smaller college, but it is possible that he could end up at UGA, a very big school, IMO. Duke is another consideration as well. One semi-big state school I had thought about attending was Mississippi State, but the out-of-state tuition rate was ridiculous, IMO. Mississippi State is kinda like a back-up choice for those in Alabama who can't get into Auburn or Bama, but you can tell M-State & Ole Miss give heavy preference to Mississippians, first & foremost.

(12-20-2023 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 04:56 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 04:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 05:36 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 05:20 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Or go to an A&M system school and just transfer to College Station.

For comparison, Texas has a moving target, right now it's top 6% for auto acceptance, but that number could and probably will drop even lower over time.

UT has this, too.

UTArlington has recently stopped.

I hadn't seen that, program is still up on the website. When did UTA stop?

In 2020 when my son applied, they were not doing automatic admission to Austin. They were trying to strengthen their own student base. He had a good offer from them, in state tuition and a small scholarship, but that was during the pandemic so he couldn't even visit.

I think the way CAP works is that if you have admission to UT (usually the top ten rule, which I guess would be top six currently) but they can't fit you in you can park at a UT school for a year. So maybe that's a little different than what A&M does. But I'm pretty sure it's still going at UTA.

(12-19-2023 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  While I think Alabama having a big-time sports program is important for name recognition, I live in the single most important “normal student” recruiting area of the Big Ten (the Chicago suburbs) and the flat out best predictable academic merit scholarships being offered to students in this area are coming from Alabama. In a world where college pricing and admissions standards are opaque in most places, Bama is extremely straight-forward. They have become one of the go-to schools for students with high grades and test scores as a “financial safety” as a brand name school where the cost of attendance is low and you can accurately predict what scholarship money that you’re getting from their website. If you have the stats to get into the Illinois engineering program, you can likely go to Alabama tuition-free. The word is out among high achieving students on that front even if they couldn’t care less about football. Just look at the Honors College at Alabama - it’s booming with high achieving students from Chicago and New York areas that have massive scholarships. (And yeah, as a father of twins both going to college in 3 years at the same time, you better believe that I track which schools are giving out automatic scholarships VERY closely.)

My daughter was a high-stat Ohio kid, high school class of 2018. I was on to Alabama early because of their transparent scholarship process. I took her there to visit and she loved it (it was both our favorite out of 12! visits). With scholarship, her (my) net cost was lower than any Ohio school that she was interested in offered her (short of living at home and commuting of course). Fortunately for my wallet, she picked Bama, but I'm glad she did. She had a great experience and got a good business education.

One thing they do that may interest you: their scholarships are for eight semesters regardless of status. She had enough AP/CCP credit to enroll as a sophomore status, finished in three years, got her MS in year four and had a TA job that paid all her fourth year expenses and got a masters debt free. We were both VERY happy with the experience.

Sticking in the academics category, most doctorates awarded by school...



Ivy: Thought the Ivy "Big Three" were Harvard, Yale, and Princeton but it's Harvard, Yale, and Penn. Must be the medical school. Dartmouth meanwhile is pathetic. Every P4 school awarded more doctorates except TCU.

Big 10: USC leads the pack counting 2024 Big 10 schools with more than any P4 or Ivy followed by Ohio State. Northwestern is in the bottom half but still has over 1,000. The bottom two are Nebraska and Oregon.

SEC: Florida leads, Texas A&M and Texas are next.

ACC: California is now the #1 school, North Carolina #2 (was #1 among 2023 ACC schools). Stanford and Duke are #4 and #5. Clemson is the bottom of the barrel.

Big 12: No school had over 1,000 doctorates for FY2022. Arizona leads the new B12. TCU graduated just 120.

Others: I don't know how Liberty graduated 1,808, are they mostly religious degrees? NYU, Temple, Georgetown, and Buffalo are all over 1,000. Certainly being in a big city and/or state helps.

If you're not going to be a professional you don't need a college education.

Another generation of young people wasting their time and money learning things they don't need to survive in a world they're not ready for. We've made getting your hands dirty for a living something failures do.

It's criminal what we do to our young people. We channel young people who do not have the ability to succeed at a university into "college prep" courses.

Like good soldiers they go to whatever university, take on a mountain of debt, quit school and end up working some dead end job trying to payback a loan they should never have been given in the first place.

Universities need to be held accountable for admitting students who can't succeed. If a student fails to graduate the school should be punished for it. To watch university endowments expand while young people struggle is criminal.

Loans for majors like North Atlantic Tribal Poetry should be outlawed. If you can't get a job with the degree to repay the money, the loan shouldn't be given.

We need shop classes returned to elementary and high schools. We need more vocational schools.

Someone should ask Altimore to chart graduate rates and debt.

It's not the school you put the kid into; it's what the kid puts into school.

(12-19-2023 09:03 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I would say in terms of selectivity there are three tiers. Texas A&M seems to be an outlier, they admit between 60-65% of applicants yet about 45% of them choose to attend. Florida State meanwhile is low admit, low yield.

To me increasing the # of applicants is huge. I'm not too big a fan of low admissions rates. I don't want it to be too high but I don't think it should be too low either. If you have the space and the budget, bring in more students. More students = more alumni. If you feel your school and your education has value, you should want to educate as many students as you can. I'm not saying take anyone off the street but rejecting people with 1500 SAT's only makes you look like snobs and if Illinois and Penn State can have student bodies of 40,000 you look pathetic when your student body is smaller than Wilkes University and they're begging people to come.

There are a lot of TX families to which Texas A&M is a clear first choice--to them, it's 100% to Aggieland if their kid is accepted.





BTW, "rejecting people with 1500 SAT's" is not always being snobs. Some schools have enrollment caps and therefore can't take every good student who applies.

(12-19-2023 10:21 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 09:25 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  The Saban Effect at Alabama, as there's no way they'd have appeared on this list at one time.

This is why I will always believe athletics has a place in colleges/universities and will always be a net positive to them. Maybe the Ivy Leagues, Cal and Stanford don't need top athletic teams to attract students and applicants but many schools see many more applicants outside of their traditional geographic areas because of athletic success. You think Alabama made the top 35 list because of Alabama's large population, academics, or because college kids are dying to spend four years in Tuscaloosa? Duke has great academics but their top men's basketball program doesn't hurt. How about Gonzaga? Or even a school like Fairleigh Dickinson or St. Peter's with just one win or Florida Atlantic with a deep Final Four run? You don't think just one of those runs won't cause a large increase in admissions?

Make students want to come to your school. Athletics helps.

Alabama has really made an effort to attact oos students. Take a look at the merit aid they offer. Here in Virginia, we have several students in our small district going to Alabama for that reason. Sure football helps as well.

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(12-20-2023 05:37 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 04:56 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 04:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 05:36 PM)inutech Wrote:  UT has this, too.

UTArlington has recently stopped.

I hadn't seen that, program is still up on the website. When did UTA stop?

In 2020 when my son applied, they were not doing automatic admission to Austin. They were trying to strengthen their own student base. He had a good offer from them, in state tuition and a small scholarship, but that was during the pandemic so he couldn't even visit.

I think the way CAP works is that if you have admission to UT (usually the top ten rule, which I guess would be top six currently) but they can't fit you in you can park at a UT school for a year. So maybe that's a little different than what A&M does. But I'm pretty sure it's still going at UTA.

Their current posted rules stipulate top 6% is auto admit, though it might not be that way in practice. It didn't apply to my daughter b/c she is 7th percentile.

(12-28-2023 06:24 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Sticking in the academics category, most doctorates awarded by school...



Ivy: Thought the Ivy "Big Three" were Harvard, Yale, and Princeton but it's Harvard, Yale, and Penn. Must be the medical school. Dartmouth meanwhile is pathetic. Every P4 school awarded more doctorates except TCU.

Big 10: USC leads the pack counting 2024 Big 10 schools with more than any P4 or Ivy followed by Ohio State. Northwestern is in the bottom half but still has over 1,000. The bottom two are Nebraska and Oregon.

SEC: Florida leads, Texas A&M and Texas are next.

ACC: California is now the #1 school, North Carolina #2 (was #1 among 2023 ACC schools). Stanford and Duke are #4 and #5. Clemson is the bottom of the barrel.

Big 12: No school had over 1,000 doctorates for FY2022. Arizona leads the new B12. TCU graduated just 120.

Others: I don't know how Liberty graduated 1,808, are they mostly religious degrees? NYU, Temple, Georgetown, and Buffalo are all over 1,000. Certainly being in a big city and/or state helps.

FSU isn't very high, but at least they're not dead last. I guess there is a bit of distance between FSU and Clemson Academically, though I still think that if B1G Presidents would waive the AAU requirement for one then they'd waive it for both.

Rice looks a lot like Dartmouth with a very low number of PhDs awarded. Perhaps this is just one metric among many, rather than a condemnation of 2 separate T1 schools?

(12-28-2023 10:19 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  If you're not going to be a professional you don't need a college education.

Another generation of young people wasting their time and money learning things they don't need to survive in a world they're not ready for. We've made getting your hands dirty for a living something failures do.

It's criminal what we do to our young people. We channel young people who do not have the ability to succeed at a university into "college prep" courses.

Like good soldiers they go to whatever university, take on a mountain of debt, quit school and end up working some dead end job trying to payback a loan they should never have been given in the first place.

Universities need to be held accountable for admitting students who can't succeed. If a student fails to graduate the school should be punished for it. To watch university endowments expand while young people struggle is criminal.

Loans for majors like North Atlantic Tribal Poetry should be outlawed. If you can't get a job with the degree to repay the money, the loan shouldn't be given.

We need shop classes returned to elementary and high schools. We need more vocational schools.

Someone should ask Altimore to chart graduate rates and debt.

So now it's the school's fault if a kid parties too hard and doesn't graduate? Come on. I knew several when I was in school who partied too hard and never graduated, including 2 of my buddies. It wasn't due to a lack of ability but rather due to a lack of effort. And I can't judge them, one time I skipped every single class between the first test and the 2nd test, showed up on test day #2, and had to take the test with zero preparation and zero idea of what the test was even going to cover. Fortunately, it was a business class and not engineering or calculus, and I got a 60 on it. If it had been a science class it probably would have been a 0. If I'd done that too many times and flunked out of school, would that have been the school's fault?

I get frustration with bloated University endowments and rising cost of attendance, that's an issue everywhere, but it's hard to blame them when some kids are just too lazy to bother to show up to class and make a modicum of effort. Perhaps they could take attendance like we did in 3rd grade? Or, you know, just give the kids the grades they earn, some people thrive, some people fail, and they learn a valuable life lesson that way.

(12-19-2023 09:37 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  TJ Altimore needs a real job.

Because he doesn't say that UCF is the #1 school in US?

Well I only applied to 3 out of the 35

Checking the numbers for the Big Ten ... wow. Outstanding and not surprising. The Big 12 ... so-so. Also not surprising.

I'm not sure I realized Providence College (Big East) offers no doctoral degrees. Now I know. DePaul, with only 292 doctoral degrees, ... I would have thought more given the school's overall enrollment of (seemingly) more than 22,000.

The Big East and the American as the only non-power leagues with four schools each with 500 or more doctoral degrees granted in 2022.

C-USA and the Sun Belt have some work to do (not surprisingly).

(12-19-2023 09:03 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Another graph from Tony...



I would say in terms of selectivity there are three tiers. Texas A&M seems to be an outlier, they admit between 60-65% of applicants yet about 45% of them choose to attend. Florida State meanwhile is low admit, low yield.

To me increasing the # of applicants is huge. I'm not too big a fan of low admissions rates. I don't want it to be too high but I don't think it should be too low either. If you have the space and the budget, bring in more students. More students = more alumni. If you feel your school and your education has value, you should want to educate as many students as you can. I'm not saying take anyone off the street but rejecting people with 1500 SAT's only makes you look like snobs and if Illinois and Penn State can have student bodies of 40,000 you look pathetic when your student body is smaller than Wilkes University and they're begging people to come.

If a kid gets into Stanford or the Ivy's, he goes there.

(12-28-2023 01:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Checking the numbers for the Big Ten ... wow. Outstanding and not surprising. The Big 12 ... so-so. Also not surprising.

I'm not sure I realized Providence College (Big East) offers no doctoral degrees. Now I know. DePaul, with only 292 doctoral degrees, ... I would have thought more given the school's overall enrollment of (seemingly) more than 22,000.

The Big East and the American as the only non-power leagues with four schools each with 500 or more doctoral degrees granted in 2022.

C-USA and the Sun Belt have some work to do (not surprisingly).

C-USA and the Belt have a lot community college-type schools as members. They are barely UNIVERSITIES

[quote='bluesox' pid='19387132' dateline='1703786277']
Well I only applied to 3 out of the 35
Did you go 3 for 3?

(12-28-2023 01:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Checking the numbers for the Big Ten ... wow. Outstanding and not surprising. The Big 12 ... so-so. Also not surprising.

I'm not sure I realized Providence College (Big East) offers no doctoral degrees. Now I know. DePaul, with only 292 doctoral degrees, ... I would have thought more given the school's overall enrollment of (seemingly) more than 22,000.

The Big East and the American as the only non-power leagues with four schools each with 500 or more doctoral degrees granted in 2022.

C-USA and the Sun Belt have some work to do (not surprisingly).

DePaul's master's programs draw a good amount of attention however, it is a R2 institution. While K-State is about the same size, the institution invests far more in their doctoral programs and research thus why I selected it for my phd over DePaul (and others).

Lots of schools report inflated application figures so as to have a better acceptance rate for USNWR rankings.

For example, I looked into Texas Tech a few years ago when their applications skyrocketed one year. Turned out, they were counting people who started applications but never submitted them and there were a lot of those.