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CFP Nightmare Scenario?
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quo vadis Offline
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CFP Nightmare Scenario?
The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2023 09:41 AM by quo vadis.)
11-15-2023 09:11 AM
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jarmzet Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
With 4 playoffs spots I think you always take the conference champs of the 3 best conferences. Then you take the best remaining team.
11-15-2023 09:23 AM
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ballantyneapp Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a one-loss #1 twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

definitely would be a fun scenario to see all the CFP people squirm.

Washington would have the best resume IMO so even though they have the least political power, keeping them out would expose the CFB for the popularity/political contest it is in reality, but I think the PTB want to keep the veneer of legitimacy so Wash & FSU are in.

The cleanest thing would be for UGA and UM/OSU to win out. 4 undefeated teams, 4 easy choices.
11-15-2023 09:31 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:31 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a one-loss #1 twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

definitely would be a fun scenario to see all the CFP people squirm.

Washington would have the best resume IMO so even though they have the least political power, keeping them out would expose the CFB for the popularity/political contest it is in reality, but I think the PTB want to keep the veneer of legitimacy so Wash & FSU are in.

The cleanest thing would be for UGA and UM/OSU to win out. 4 undefeated teams, 4 easy choices.

How many times in this century have we had 4 undefeated teams?
11-15-2023 09:43 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
You simply can't leave out a 1-loss SEC conference champ which means Bama is in. Also you can't leave out any undefeated P5 conference champions, so Mich, FSU, Wash are in.

Which means Texas gets screwed even though it is a 1-loss P5 conference champion that actually beat Bama.

But don't worry. Somebody will lose that is not supposed to lose. My guess is Texas is going to lose again. But it could be Wash or FSU too. It will work it self out. And if it doesn't, then everybody can have the peace of mind the moving to the 12-team CFP is the right thing to do.
11-15-2023 09:48 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
If they weren't already going to 12 next year that would be a real nightmare and a real big point of pressure to go to 12 early. Since they are any of these scenarios get solved next season anyway.
11-15-2023 10:05 AM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

Probably Alabama gets in over Texas b/c of their far tougher SoS and SoV. However, I don't think this is a "nightmare scenario" for the CFP at all, situations like your above hypotheticla are exactly why there is a CFP Committee in the first place.
11-15-2023 10:08 AM
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Just Joe Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

I'd been thinking about this scenario and I think it's the one outcome that results in the SEC being left out. Texas beat us head to head and it wasn't even close. I think we're far better than them now but results happen and September wasn't some sort of exhibition. Now am I going to apologize if a 12-1 Tide gets in over a 12-1 Horns? Not at all.

Ultimately I think it's not very likely. UW/FSU/UT have all played close games with teams they should've won big against and all likely have stout opposition in conference title games. I expect at least one to lose meaning the SEC title game takes its normal place as a de facto quarterfinal.
11-15-2023 10:15 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
The Texas/Bama argument is pointless.

Bama would have a win against UGa in Atlanta. The UT loss was too early in the year. And look at the Big 12 this year. It is comically bad. UT gets no credit because they simply can't make up the SoS the rest of the way. They need help. A two loss Oregon taking out Wazzou or something that typically happens to the PAC in their CCG is what they need.

It is apparent more teams in the top five will accumulate additional losses before all is said and done. They are hoping for chaos this year to justify the CFP expansion. But chaos is fun. Hoping for a 5-6 way argument for the top 4 come the final CFP rankings.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2023 10:29 AM by RUScarlets.)
11-15-2023 10:29 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
This scenario is unlikely, but it’s comical to read some of these comments. The CFP would almost certainly choose: 1) Michigan (13-0), 2) Washington (13-0), 3) FSU (13-0), and 4) Texas (12-1)…picking four P5 conference champions, and the Longhorns convincing win in Tuscaloosa is the tie-breaker over SEC champion #5 Alabama.

If folks are honestly worried about excluding the champion from the “best conference”, then they should support more conference champions being included in the expanded 12-team playoffs. If folks want to select CFP teams based on Las Vegas odds or recent-games performance, then they need to first proactively seek to modify the rules. The scenario is the worst-case for the SEC.
11-15-2023 10:55 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:31 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a one-loss #1 twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

definitely would be a fun scenario to see all the CFP people squirm.

Washington would have the best resume IMO so even though they have the least political power, keeping them out would expose the CFB for the popularity/political contest it is in reality, but I think the PTB want to keep the veneer of legitimacy so Wash & FSU are in.

The cleanest thing would be for UGA and UM/OSU to win out. 4 undefeated teams, 4 easy choices.

Pac-12 thankfully got rid of its championship metrics so the two best records play this year (instead of Arizona/Utah)

Does the B1G west get a seat in the championship game this year or will it be OSU vs Michigan? I know next year the divisions get thrown out.
11-15-2023 11:11 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:48 AM)goofus Wrote:  You simply can't leave out a 1-loss SEC conference champ which means Bama is in. Also you can't leave out any undefeated P5 conference champions, so Mich, FSU, Wash are in.

Which means Texas gets screwed even though it is a 1-loss P5 conference champion that actually beat Bama.

But don't worry. Somebody will lose that is not supposed to lose. My guess is Texas is going to lose again. But it could be Wash or FSU too. It will work it self out. And if it doesn't, then everybody can have the peace of mind the moving to the 12-team CFP is the right thing to do.

We're Playing #11 Oregon State on the road. CFP board praying to the gods that UW loses.
11-15-2023 11:14 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 10:55 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  This scenario is unlikely, but it’s comical to read some of these comments. The CFP would almost certainly choose: 1) Michigan (13-0), 2) Washington (13-0), 3) FSU (13-0), and 4) Texas (12-1)…picking four P5 conference champions, and the Longhorns convincing win in Tuscaloosa is the tie-breaker over SEC champion #5 Alabama.

If folks are honestly worried about excluding the champion from the “best conference”, then they should support more conference champions being included in the expanded 12-team playoffs. If folks want to select CFP teams based on Las Vegas odds or recent-games performance, then they need to first proactively seek to modify the rules. The scenario is the worst-case for the SEC.

You're assuming that Texas and Alabama would be seen as tied. I'd say odds are pretty darn good that the committee would not see them as tied.
11-15-2023 11:15 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

The whole B.S. souffle' is built upon some really specious early season data. Utah's opening week win over a grossly overrated Florida helped build the PAC's reputation. Wins over some very questionable Big 10 schools bolstered it. Florida will likely wind up with a losing record since they close with a good Missouri team on the road and FSU at home. Utah turned out to be less stellar than thought. So who exactly have Oregon and Washington played, but each other? Are they good? Yes! Are they national championship quality? Not if you watch them play.

Then there is the whole Michigan / Ohio State matter. Notre Dame turned out to be good, but not great. Save a boneheaded mistake on the last play of the game against Ohio State where they were missing their right Defensive End on Ohio State's last play the Buckeyes have a loss. And Notre Dame as a great win has only diminished with the passing of the season. They have both beaten Penn State now. Who has Penn State played outside of the Big 10? Who will Michigan have beaten of any quality outside of Penn State, and Ohio State when they play them?

People are forgetting that Georgia is a two time standing national champion. And the Alabama squad that lost a close one with Texas in the opening game of the season, when any new QB is just really learning, is a tough scenario. Since then Milroe has only gotten stronger and with him Alabama.

The narrative of the SEC having a down year happened because Alabama opened with a neutral site game against Texas, L.S.U. played in Tallahassee, and an overrated Florida opened on the road at Utah.

Place the season in the context of ESPN's opening week narrative and yes you have a mess for the CFP decision shaping up. Take it week by week and not so much. Take it by the conference instead of the polls and you have even less.

Oregon/Washington winner advances if both win out until the CCG.
Michigan/ Ohio State winner advances if the same team wins twice (the final game and the CCG).
Georgia/Alabama winner advances if they both win out until the CCG.
Texas stands to advance if they beat OU a second time, but if they lose they are out.
FSU needs to win out including the CCG.

That all these happen exactly as expected isn't likely at all and the ensuing mess will sort itself out.

I'd say the likeliest outcome is Michigan wins out, Georgia wins out, Florida State wins out, and a one loss Oregon beats Washington in the rematch.

If Texas beats Oklahoma in a rematch, or just wins out no matter who they play in the CCG it comes down to Oregon vs Texas as to who is #4.
11-15-2023 11:25 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
There was a scenario a few years back with UC. They ran the table, but had they lost in the AAC championship game to Houston, they could have ended tied with ND but with H2H in South Bend. The committee had no respect for them, and likewise, UT will get no respect as a Big 12 team.
11-15-2023 11:28 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

Your B1G scenario is impossible. Michigan and Ohio State play in the regular season and the winner will play the B1G West champ.
11-15-2023 11:34 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 11:34 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

Your B1G scenario is impossible. Michigan and Ohio State play in the regular season and the winner will play the B1G West champ.

What happens if one of Michigan/Ohio State wins, but loses to b1g wEST Champ?
11-15-2023 11:53 AM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 10:55 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  This scenario is unlikely, but it’s comical to read some of these comments. The CFP would almost certainly choose: 1) Michigan (13-0), 2) Washington (13-0), 3) FSU (13-0), and 4) Texas (12-1)…picking four P5 conference champions, and the Longhorns convincing win in Tuscaloosa is the tie-breaker over SEC champion #5 Alabama.

If folks are honestly worried about excluding the champion from the “best conference”, then they should support more conference champions being included in the expanded 12-team playoffs. If folks want to select CFP teams based on Las Vegas odds or recent-games performance, then they need to first proactively seek to modify the rules. The scenario is the worst-case for the SEC.

Conference champs and head to head are defined criteria. They evaluate teams in 3s. So unless they put Alabama #3, Texas gets in ahead of Alabama in this scenario.
Texas would be #4 and Alabama #5.

But there's a LOT of football left. We've had two remarkably upset free weeks. That pattern is not likely to continue. All of the 9 zero or one loss P5 teams have the potential to lose before the CCGs.
11-15-2023 12:01 PM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 10:29 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  The Texas/Bama argument is pointless.

Bama would have a win against UGa in Atlanta. The UT loss was too early in the year. And look at the Big 12 this year. It is comically bad. UT gets no credit because they simply can't make up the SoS the rest of the way. They need help. A two loss Oregon taking out Wazzou or something that typically happens to the PAC in their CCG is what they need.

It is apparent more teams in the top five will accumulate additional losses before all is said and done. They are hoping for chaos this year to justify the CFP expansion. But chaos is fun. Hoping for a 5-6 way argument for the top 4 come the final CFP rankings.
Texas has one of the strongest strengths of schedules in the country. Haven't figured out how to find the Massey composite conference rankings, but Sagarin rates the Big 12 2nd behind the SEC.
SEC 80.44
Big 12 78.30
Pac 12 77.61
Big 10 76.34
ACC 73.84

MWC 64.32
SB 63.41
AAC 62.31
MAC 59.42
CUSA 58.02

MVC 55.59
Big Sky 51.74
11-15-2023 12:17 PM
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RE: CFP Nightmare Scenario?
(11-15-2023 10:15 AM)Just Joe Wrote:  
(11-15-2023 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The CFP could likely face some really, really tough choices. Last year, things were so clear cut that TCU (TCU!) could lose its CCG but still get in. This year, with so many strong unbeaten and one-loss teams, I am not sure anyone is safe, not even a Georgia or an Ohio State or Michigan that goes in to their CCG unbeaten. So let's consider this ...

Let's say Washington and FSU go unbeaten, finish as undefeated PAC and ACC champs. Presumably they are in. So that's two spots off the table. Now let's say Michigan runs the table, barely beats unbeaten Ohio State in the B1G title game. As an unbeaten B1G champ, they are surely in, so three spots are taken.

Now let's say TX and Alabama win out, Texas dominates OK State in the B12 CCG, Alabama beats Georgia in a thriller.

So now you have one-loss Georgia, Ohio State, Texas and Alabama teams. TX and AL are both conference champs, TX beat AL head to head, Ohio State was ranked well ahead of both and barely lost, and you have a twice defending champ Georgia team, that also barely lost.

Who gets that last spot? Or does the CFP do the unthinkable and actually keep out either FSU or Washington, an unbeaten P5 champ, to get two or even three of these in?

TOUGH CHOICE.

I'd been thinking about this scenario and I think it's the one outcome that results in the SEC being left out. Texas beat us head to head and it wasn't even close. I think we're far better than them now but results happen and September wasn't some sort of exhibition. Now am I going to apologize if a 12-1 Tide gets in over a 12-1 Horns? Not at all.

Ultimately I think it's not very likely. UW/FSU/UT have all played close games with teams they should've won big against and all likely have stout opposition in conference title games. I expect at least one to lose meaning the SEC title game takes its normal place as a de facto quarterfinal.

Wow, you raise another issue I hadn't thought of - could the CFP possibly leave the SEC out? That seems almost unthinkable to me.

Maybe the CFP decides Texas > Alabama, but Georgia, even with the CCG loss, over Texas. That seems unthinkable too, LOL.
11-15-2023 12:55 PM
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