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KevMo4UAB Offline
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Post: #1
MyBB Clemson Tigers
UAB (93) vs. Clemson (44)

Clemson beat Winthrop (161) 78-56 yesterday. They led the entire game, getting out to a 7-0 start.

PJ Hall (6-10 238 Sr) is the star of the team. He had 20 points last night.

KenPom has it UAB 69 - Clemson 75.
11-07-2023 11:01 AM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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RE: Clemson Tigers
KenPom has Clemson going 19-11 and 12-8 this season. Right now they are the 5th rated team in the ACC.

Least season they went 23-11 and 14-6, which wasn’t good enough for the Big Dance. In the NIT, they lost at home to Morehead State - a team UAB beat by 18.

They play at Memphis (34) on Dec. 16th.
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 11:10 AM by KevMo4UAB.)
11-07-2023 11:09 AM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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RE: Clemson Tigers
Clemson went 13-32 (0.406) from three last night. They were 11-12 from the free throw line. They had 21 assists and only 10 turnovers.
11-07-2023 11:13 AM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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RE: Clemson Tigers
On a side note - I’m a GSW fan. Chris Paul’s assist to turnover ratio is just unreal so far this season.

Through the first 8 games of the season, Paul has 62 assists and 6 turnovers - yielding a ratio of 10.3 to 1.

Over the last four games, he has 29 assists to 0 turnovers!!!
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 11:28 AM by KevMo4UAB.)
11-07-2023 11:27 AM
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UABFAN23 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Clemson Tigers
If we don’t have shooters, what does it matter if we let somebody else run point with better decision-making than Gaines?

What was the point of signing Ortiz? I don’t suspect that you can force your way back into a game this weekend, like we did last night.
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 11:41 AM by UABFAN23.)
11-07-2023 11:40 AM
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BlazerMatt Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Clemson Tigers
In my head canon, Aaron Johnson gives an impassioned pregame speech reminding the team that in his last game as a Blazer, those Clemson Mf'rs broke his leg! The team comes out on fire and ready to kick some ass and we play like gangbusters.

In the real world, an long, athletic team that can shoot will almost always beat a long, athletic team that cant shoot. Their starting front court is 6'8, 6'10, and 6'10, and all three of them can probably shoot better than anyone we have on the roster, and the 6'8 guy is PJ Hall who is basically Chris Cokley with a three point shot.
11-07-2023 12:54 PM
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BlazerMatt Offline
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RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 11:40 AM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  If we don’t have shooters, what does it matter if we let somebody else run point with better decision-making than Gaines?

What was the point of signing Ortiz? I don’t suspect that you can force your way back into a game this weekend, like we did last night.

We signed Ortiz because he shots close to 40% from the three and has proven he can shoot the 3 off the dribble, albeit against lesser competition. We desperately need experienced shooting on this team and he was available.
11-07-2023 12:56 PM
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hooverblazer Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Clemson Tigers
Ortiz was 2-5 from 3 last night. So right on that 40% average.
11-07-2023 12:58 PM
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UABFAN23 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Clemson Tigers
I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 01:46 PM by UABFAN23.)
11-07-2023 01:27 PM
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blazerblazer Online
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Post: #10
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 12:54 PM)BlazerMatt Wrote:  In my head canon, Aaron Johnson gives an impassioned pregame speech reminding the team that in his last game as a Blazer, those Clemson Mf'rs broke his leg! The team comes out on fire and ready to kick some ass and we play like gangbusters.

In the real world, an long, athletic team that can shoot will almost always beat a long, athletic team that cant shoot. Their starting front court is 6'8, 6'10, and 6'10, and all three of them can probably shoot better than anyone we have on the roster, and the 6'8 guy is PJ Hall who is basically Chris Cokley with a three point shot.

That was also our last at-large bid...
11-07-2023 01:49 PM
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Nickj345 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 01:27 PM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey

he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo
11-07-2023 02:29 PM
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UABFAN23 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Clemson Tigers
Again, if you are going to drive in against 2-3 defenders and force it, that’s a turnover not posted in the stat sheet. it’s purely recklessness. It’s not winning basketball. We need to get back to recruiting positions. If we don’t have a PG on the roster, then that goes back to recruiting. You aren’t going to outtalent or out-athlete good teams when they have fundamental players that know their roles.
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 02:43 PM by UABFAN23.)
11-07-2023 02:41 PM
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The Answer UAB Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 02:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 01:27 PM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey

he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo

Vasquez is supposed to be a point. He was awful last night though.

AK hasn’t recruited a real point guard since he’s been here. We don’t have one on the roster this year unless u count satterfirled or Vasquez who are really more combo guards.

It’s not Gaines hate - it’s a well established pattern of what he does. He basically caused the 6-0 run all by himself last night that sealed our fate.

He lost the ball in OT too. He’s undisciplined and turnover prone (2:4 last night) and does not shoot well - 33% last night. He is who he is though. We have to ride with him but letting him go one on one or one on two for our “offense” is an unmitigated disaster though. It was pretty easy to see last night.
11-07-2023 02:51 PM
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Nickj345 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 02:51 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 01:27 PM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey

he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo

Vasquez is supposed to be a point. He was awful last night though.

AK hasn’t recruited a real point guard since he’s been here. We don’t have one on the roster this year unless u count satterfirled or Vasquez who are really more combo guards.

It’s not Gaines hate - it’s a well established pattern of what he does. He basically caused the 6-0 run all by himself last night that sealed our fate.

He lost the ball in OT too. He’s undisciplined and turnover prone (2:4 last night) and does not shoot well - 33% last night. He is who he is though. We have to ride with him but letting him go one on one or one on two for our “offense” is an unmitigated disaster though. It was pretty easy to see last night.

toney is the one who started who really started that run because he fouled their best 3 point shooter but eric definitely contributed when he turned it over on the press that led to a 3 for them blaming the entire run on him comes off as hate to me and is objectively not true there was a multitude of factors that led to that run happening and no he didn't turn it over in overtime go back and watch, its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not, the halfcourt 0 was pretty terrible in general so when guys mesh more and figure out their spots I can get a better perspective on it him running into 3 guys was pretty much everyone last night did because we couldn't hit perimeter shots , I'm not going to change how yall feel about eric idrc to, just speak objectively about him like defensively he was everywhere and fantastic he was much more engaged than he was last year and I haven't heard a peep about it, regardless of how you feel about he played last night dont use one game to say this who he will based on what he did last year its dumb
11-07-2023 03:29 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Clemson Tigers
We are a better team with Gaines on the court than without. We will be rehashing this same thing over and over all season I'm sure, but at the end of the day that's the way I look at it.
11-07-2023 03:48 PM
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The Answer UAB Offline
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RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 03:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:51 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 01:27 PM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey

he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo

Vasquez is supposed to be a point. He was awful last night though.

AK hasn’t recruited a real point guard since he’s been here. We don’t have one on the roster this year unless u count satterfirled or Vasquez who are really more combo guards.

It’s not Gaines hate - it’s a well established pattern of what he does. He basically caused the 6-0 run all by himself last night that sealed our fate.

He lost the ball in OT too. He’s undisciplined and turnover prone (2:4 last night) and does not shoot well - 33% last night. He is who he is though. We have to ride with him but letting him go one on one or one on two for our “offense” is an unmitigated disaster though. It was pretty easy to see last night.

toney is the one who started who really started that run because he fouled their best 3 point shooter but eric definitely contributed when he turned it over on the press that led to a 3 for them blaming the entire run on him comes off as hate to me and is objectively not true there was a multitude of factors that led to that run happening and no he didn't turn it over in overtime go back and watch, its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not, the halfcourt 0 was pretty terrible in general so when guys mesh more and figure out their spots I can get a better perspective on it him running into 3 guys was pretty much everyone last night did because we couldn't hit perimeter shots , I'm not going to change how yall feel about eric idrc to, just speak objectively about him like defensively he was everywhere and fantastic he was much more engaged than he was last year and I haven't heard a peep about it, regardless of how you feel about he played last night dont use one game to say this who he will based on what he did last year its dumb

Wrong. 4:22 in OT: "Eric Gaines Turnover."

" its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not" - have you not watched Eric Gaines in the THREE previous D1 seasons that he has played major minutes? He is one of the most undisciplined players I've ever seen. To say he is not undisciplined is being deliberately obtuse, as Andy Dufresne would say. And Like 23 said, when he takes it in the paint and jacks up a terrible shot - no, it's not technically a turnover, but for all intents and purposes, it is most definitely a turnover. He took 18 shots to score 16 points last night - how many of those shots were really turnovers disguised as missed shots in the box score?
11-07-2023 03:48 PM
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The Answer UAB Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Clemson Tigers
Gaines was great on defense.

6/18 and 4 actual turnovers, and multiple other "soft turnovers" were not great.

He really looks like the same player as last year.
11-07-2023 03:50 PM
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UABFAN23 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Clemson Tigers
And yes, this is all relevant to the Clemson game, because I want to see some changes in who runs the offense. We know who can’t and he’s the only one over the last 40 games that hasn’t been benched when he’s giving the game away.

While Toney ain’t that great in certain aspects. He isn’t careless and never plays with a lack of energy and effort. That’s why people like him. Not his name.
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2023 03:54 PM by UABFAN23.)
11-07-2023 03:53 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 03:48 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 03:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:51 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 01:27 PM)UABFAN23 Wrote:  I can live with that from Ortiz. Seems he has better control of his dribble as well. Don’t know how much longer we need to run Gaines at the point until we realize we don’t gain anything from it, that we couldn’t get with him being a 6th man.

Clemson had two other forwards finish with 16 and 12 points. Schieffelin and Godfrey

he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo

Vasquez is supposed to be a point. He was awful last night though.

AK hasn’t recruited a real point guard since he’s been here. We don’t have one on the roster this year unless u count satterfirled or Vasquez who are really more combo guards.

It’s not Gaines hate - it’s a well established pattern of what he does. He basically caused the 6-0 run all by himself last night that sealed our fate.

He lost the ball in OT too. He’s undisciplined and turnover prone (2:4 last night) and does not shoot well - 33% last night. He is who he is though. We have to ride with him but letting him go one on one or one on two for our “offense” is an unmitigated disaster though. It was pretty easy to see last night.

toney is the one who started who really started that run because he fouled their best 3 point shooter but eric definitely contributed when he turned it over on the press that led to a 3 for them blaming the entire run on him comes off as hate to me and is objectively not true there was a multitude of factors that led to that run happening and no he didn't turn it over in overtime go back and watch, its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not, the halfcourt 0 was pretty terrible in general so when guys mesh more and figure out their spots I can get a better perspective on it him running into 3 guys was pretty much everyone last night did because we couldn't hit perimeter shots , I'm not going to change how yall feel about eric idrc to, just speak objectively about him like defensively he was everywhere and fantastic he was much more engaged than he was last year and I haven't heard a peep about it, regardless of how you feel about he played last night dont use one game to say this who he will based on what he did last year its dumb

Wrong. 4:22 in OT: "Eric Gaines Turnover."

" its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not" - have you not watched Eric Gaines in the THREE previous D1 seasons that he has played major minutes? He is one of the most undisciplined players I've ever seen. To say he is not undisciplined is being deliberately obtuse, as Andy Dufresne would say. And Like 23 said, when he takes it in the paint and jacks up a terrible shot - no, it's not technically a turnover, but for all intents and purposes, it is most definitely a turnover. He took 18 shots to score 16 points last night - how many of those shots were really turnovers disguised as missed shots in the box score?

I went back and I was wrong he did turn it over in the ot but I change nothing about my stance and my point isn't to say he isn't undisciplined offensively anymore its more speaking to the point going off a one game sample size is dumb despite what he did at lsu or here in a different role last year and yes I watched I'm all of last year and at lsu but you act like guys can't improve their deficiencies "16 Points on 18 shots" I'm sorry everyone won't be efficient when you're the most schemed player on the team does need to shoot better yes obviously and I spoke about his poor finishing through contact and some of those drives should have been pull up middys or pass outs but that's just processing which needs to improve not a fan of definite statements about players regardless of track record.
11-07-2023 04:11 PM
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The Answer UAB Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Clemson Tigers
(11-07-2023 04:11 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 03:48 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 03:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:51 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  
(11-07-2023 02:29 PM)Nickj345 Wrote:  he's by far our best advantage creator/playmaker lmao yall need to get over this weird eric hate, does he do **** that makes you pull your hair out yes but its about his processing more than anything, I watched butta be our point last night in some stretches and he made the offense so freaking stagnant because he's nowhere the playmaker eric is, we legit don't have another pg on this roster besides Satterfield who I think has high upside but he's not even healthy and we have no idea how he would do in that role his first year. I thought eric was pretty solid last night 2 out of the 4 turnovers came against Leons(#14) who's a great defender and he guarded him well on those plays eric adjusted well to him after. The only glaring issue I see with eric that's still a problem is finishing, for someone as athletic as he is he really struggles finishing through contact, he just doesn't have a very strong base which makes it easy to knock him off his spot and some of the drives were forced because we had no shooting around him but he needs to flesh this part of his game out and he has the capability to do so imo

Vasquez is supposed to be a point. He was awful last night though.

AK hasn’t recruited a real point guard since he’s been here. We don’t have one on the roster this year unless u count satterfirled or Vasquez who are really more combo guards.

It’s not Gaines hate - it’s a well established pattern of what he does. He basically caused the 6-0 run all by himself last night that sealed our fate.

He lost the ball in OT too. He’s undisciplined and turnover prone (2:4 last night) and does not shoot well - 33% last night. He is who he is though. We have to ride with him but letting him go one on one or one on two for our “offense” is an unmitigated disaster though. It was pretty easy to see last night.

toney is the one who started who really started that run because he fouled their best 3 point shooter but eric definitely contributed when he turned it over on the press that led to a 3 for them blaming the entire run on him comes off as hate to me and is objectively not true there was a multitude of factors that led to that run happening and no he didn't turn it over in overtime go back and watch, its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not, the halfcourt 0 was pretty terrible in general so when guys mesh more and figure out their spots I can get a better perspective on it him running into 3 guys was pretty much everyone last night did because we couldn't hit perimeter shots , I'm not going to change how yall feel about eric idrc to, just speak objectively about him like defensively he was everywhere and fantastic he was much more engaged than he was last year and I haven't heard a peep about it, regardless of how you feel about he played last night dont use one game to say this who he will based on what he did last year its dumb

Wrong. 4:22 in OT: "Eric Gaines Turnover."

" its too early to say if he's still undisciplined or not" - have you not watched Eric Gaines in the THREE previous D1 seasons that he has played major minutes? He is one of the most undisciplined players I've ever seen. To say he is not undisciplined is being deliberately obtuse, as Andy Dufresne would say. And Like 23 said, when he takes it in the paint and jacks up a terrible shot - no, it's not technically a turnover, but for all intents and purposes, it is most definitely a turnover. He took 18 shots to score 16 points last night - how many of those shots were really turnovers disguised as missed shots in the box score?

I went back and I was wrong he did turn it over in the ot but I change nothing about my stance and my point isn't to say he isn't undisciplined offensively anymore its more speaking to the point going off a one game sample size is dumb despite what he did at lsu or here in a different role last year and yes I watched I'm all of last year and at lsu but you act like guys can't improve their deficiencies "16 Points on 18 shots" I'm sorry everyone won't be efficient when you're the most schemed player on the team does need to shoot better yes obviously and I spoke about his poor finishing through contact and some of those drives should have been pull up middys or pass outs but that's just processing which needs to improve not a fan of definite statements about players regardless of track record.

Was he a center last year? He is playing the exact same role as last year LOL - maybe more minutes, sure, but he is in the exact same role he was last year. He IS an undisciplined player. He's BEEN undisciplined. And if last night is any indication, as the last THREE years have been, he will STAY undisciplined. Why is it that hard for you to see?
11-07-2023 04:28 PM
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