So this is for 2025 forward. Because of the strangely low maximum on poll options, I'm excluding the following 4 matchups from the poll based on the assumption that they'll be played annually in any scenario:

Alabama/Auburn
Florida/Georgia
Mississippi State/Ole Miss
Oklahoma/Texas

Feel free to write in any matchups you think will remain annual if I didn't include them. Remember, both schools have to agree to it.

I voted:

Alabama-Tennessee
A&M-Texas
A&M-LSU
Georgia-Florida
Alabama-LSU
Florida-Tennessee

100% based upon average TV ratings. A&M-Alabama is a really big draw, too, but it wasn't listed, and Alabama has a bigger rivalry with Tennessee, Auburn, and LSU, and also a very long history with Miss St. Alabama might be the toughest school to get right, whether we end up at 8 or 9 games long term.

I think the SEC will remain true to the college football and give every school one or more permanent rivals.

...AU/UGA ain't going nowhere, and evn tho a one-sided affair, I'd be shocked if UT-Vandy is ever discontinued... same for Bama/LSU.

AL/TN
AU/GA
TN/Vandy
LSU/OM

AL/LSU is a much bigger deal for LSU than it is for Bama. They’d much rather keep the Tennessee game. And for Bama to have three permanents that are usually in the top half of the league is unfair. It wouldn’t be fair for UGA to have a third tough annual either if they have FL and AU. Or for TX if they already have OK/A&M.

(11-02-2023 05:58 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  AL/TN
AU/GA
TN/Vandy
LSU/OM

AL/LSU is a much bigger deal for LSU than it is for Bama. They’d much rather keep the Tennessee game. And for Bama to have three permanents that are usually in the top half of the league is unfair. It wouldn’t be fair for UGA to have a third tough annual either if they have FL and AU. Or for TX if they already have OK/A&M.

Yeah, it's going to be tough to get the scheduling right, and you're probably correct. I don't want to speak for Alabama here, but if I had to guess their permanent opponent preferences, it would be:

1. Auburn
2. Tennessee
3. Miss St

We're not even getting 3 permanents so it's a moot point. They SHOULD get Tennessee as their 2nd, but Saban is always crying for an easier schedule, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get Auburn and Miss St.

(11-02-2023 05:58 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  AL/TN
AU/GA
TN/Vandy
LSU/OM

AL/LSU is a much bigger deal for LSU than it is for Bama. They’d much rather keep the Tennessee game. And for Bama to have three permanents that are usually in the top half of the league is unfair. It wouldn’t be fair for UGA to have a third tough annual either if they have FL and AU. Or for TX if they already have OK/A&M.

I said in a thread in the P5 board that if Saban would accept Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU, 3-6-6 probably would have happened already.

(11-02-2023 06:50 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 05:58 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  AL/TN
AU/GA
TN/Vandy
LSU/OM

AL/LSU is a much bigger deal for LSU than it is for Bama. They’d much rather keep the Tennessee game. And for Bama to have three permanents that are usually in the top half of the league is unfair. It wouldn’t be fair for UGA to have a third tough annual either if they have FL and AU. Or for TX if they already have OK/A&M.

I said in a thread in the P5 board that if Saban would accept Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU, 3-6-6 probably would have happened already.

Alabama’s most played opponent is Tennessee with 105. Second is Mississippi State at 104. MSU should be their third permanent. They are the geographically two closest SEC schools.

Here's Alabama's TV ratings for 2022 and 2023 so far...

Saturday 10/15/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Tennessee SEC 6.1 11.56
Saturday 9/10/2022 noon FOX Alabama Texas Big 12 5.7 10.6
Saturday 11/12/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Mississippi SEC 4.8 8.71
Saturday 11/5/2022 7pm ESPN Alabama LSU SEC 3.9 7.58
Saturday 10/8/2022 8pm CBS Texas A&M Alabama SEC 3.9 7.15
Saturday 11/26/2022 3:30pm CBS Auburn Alabama SEC 3.2 6.27
Saturday 10/1/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Arkansas SEC 3.2 5.83
Saturday 10/22/2022 7pm ESPN Mississippi State Alabama SEC 1.9 3.59

Saturday 9/9/2023 7pm ESPN Texas Alabama SEC 4.5 8.76
Saturday 10/21/2023 3:30pm CBS Tennessee Alabama SEC 4.2 8.01
Saturday 10/7/2023 3:30pm CBS Alabama Texas A&M SEC 3.9 7.23
Saturday 9/16/2023 3;30pm ABC Alabama South Florida AAC 2.7 4.84
Saturday 9/23/2023 3:30pm CBS Mississippi Alabama SEC 2.6 4.61
Saturday 10/14/2023 noon ESPN Arkansas Alabama SEC 1.9 3.43
Saturday 9/30/2023 9pm ESPN Alabama Mississippi State SEC 1.8 3.35

Look what school is on the bottom of both lists both years. 3.59M and 3.35M for Alabama games is pathetic. Alabama got 4.84M for South Florida and I remember that game was ugly, I think RG3 was trying to convince fans to watch the second half because the second half couldn't get worse than the first half. Being on ESPN isn't an excuse, Alabama got huge numbers when they played LSU last year and Texas this year and CBS gets five Alabama games a year. Why does it seem Mississippi State never gets picked? There's a reason. Alabama-Mississippi State at 9pm ET? For the SEC, that's the graveyard shift. ESPN is really sticking an Alabama game there? Would Alabama-LSU or Texas-Alabama air at 9pm? No way.

The 11.56M last year was likely an aberration and UT hasn't been as good as they have been recently but it's obvious from a ratings standpoint UT-Bama will draw way more viewers annually than Miss St-Bama. Last year'S LSU game aired on ESPN and vs. the clinching game of the World Series. Most Alabama-LSU games are chosen by CBS although most games aren't as exciting a finish as last year's game. I'd also say LSU-Bama will draw way more viewers annually than Miss St-Bama (in 2022 both games aired on the same network and the same start time and Miss St-Bama didn't air vs. the World Series and yet LSU got more than twice the viewership).

Based on the last two years data, even if you say Alabama has no rival other than Auburn, a random SEC matchup is most likely to draw more viewers than a Mississippi State-Alabama game. I personally think the Big Ten not having Ohio State-Penn State is a bad call, Ohio State-Penn State annually will draw more viewers than a random Ohio State game but at least the Big Ten isn't protecting Ohio State-Illinois instead, that would be absolutely irresponsible.

Mississippi State fans and Alabama fans and SEC fans can tell me how important the rivalry is, I just don't care and most of the rest of the country doesn't, we care more about LSU-Alabama and Tennessee-Alabama or we'd rather Alabama play Georgia or Oklahoma or Texas more often. Why give Alabama one guaranteed game against an opponent most fans don't care about? Vanderbilt's not available? You don't think Illibuck isn't important to Ohio State or the Little Brown Jug isn't important to Michigan? But when the Big Ten went to divisions, they ended them as annual games for the good of the conference. Illinois hasn't played Ohio State since 2017 and won't play them next year. Fans don't want Ohio State playing Illinois, they'd rather them play USC and Oregon. Michigan-Minnesota was played this year on NBC. 3.06 million. Why should the Big Ten want that game played annually as opposed to Michigan playing other more popular schools more often?

If the SEC only wants to cater to a Southern audience, don't cry when more people watch the Big Ten and they get more money from networks. You want more money and more viewers, more Alabama-Tennesee, more Alabama-LSU, maybe more Alabama-Georgia (doesn't have to be annually but definitely more than when they had divisions). The Big Ten doesn't want to box themselves into just being a Midwestern conference, they want the East Coast with Penn State and now the West Coast with UCLA, USC, Oregon, and Washington. I said over in the Big 12 thread not every old rivalry is important. You can't force non Southern fans to care about schools we don't want to care about. The Big Ten doesn't force fans to care about Purdue. Don't care about Purdue. Care about the Big Three schools. There's plenty of SEC schools for us to care about, we shouldn't have to care about Mississippi State (until they win again).

This isn't how I think it will happen, but it is how I would do it if I were in charge.

I would give every team three protected rivals, go with a 9-game conference schedule (yes, I know ESPN has rejected that) and a 3-6-6 format. Every team would get its protected rivals in up to three rounds.

Round One would be a nod to history. Every team (with one exception, discussed below) would get a protected game against its most commonly played rival currently in the conference, as follows:

Alabama: Mississippi State (this one surprised me a little)
Arkansas: Texas
Auburn: Georgia
Florida: Georgia
Georgia: Auburn
Kentucky: Tennessee
LSU: Ole Miss*
Ole Miss: Mississippi State
Mississippi State: Ole Miss
Missouri: Oklahoma
Oklahoma: Texas
South Carolina: Georgia
Tennessee: Kentucky
Texas: Texas A&M
Texas A&M: Texas
Vanderbilt: Tennessee

*LSU actually has played Mississippi State more often than Ole Miss. But the difference (only six games) is relatively small, and this system works better if I give LSU Ole Miss in this round rather than Mississippi State.

At this point, two schools (Georgia and Texas) already have three protected rivalries. Georgia has Auburn, Florida and South Carolina, while Texas has Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M. Their rivalries are done. Four other schools (Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Oklahoma and Tennessee) each have two protected rivals in Round One, so they sit out Round Two and are brought back for Round Three.

Round Two is down to ten schools:

Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida
Kentucky
LSU
Missouri
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt

And it's an eyeball test.

Obviously, with an eyeball test, Alabama-Auburn is the one that sticks out as a rivalry that should be protected. On a lesser level, Kentucky-Vanderbilt does as well. And with those two out of the way, so does Florida-South Carolina. The hardest to match up in this round were the remaining western schools. In the end, I decided to eschew history in favor of geography, competitive balance and current trends, so the protected matchups were Arkansas-Missouri and LSU-Texas A&M.

Round Three was an eyeball test as well, albeit a little more subtle than Round Two. For Round Three, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Oklahoma and Tennessee all return.

I started Round Three with Alabama, and there are two different directions you can go here: LSU or Tennessee. In the end, I went with Tennessee, based on: (1) I consider this a slightly more important series within an historical context; and (2) it makes more sense geographically. Next, I considered Auburn. Auburn-Florida was an important SEC rivalry in the pre-division era, more or less ended by divisional alignment. But with divisions going away, I thought this was a good opportunity to square the circle and bring this one back.

Next, I looked at conference borders, and protected certain rivalries along those borders: Kentucky-Missouri on the northern border, and Oklahoma-Texas A&M (a renewal of a Big XII South Division rivalry) on the western border. South Carolina-Vanderbilt comes into focus by default, as those are the two easternmost teams remaining.

That leaves Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and Mississippi State. Ole Miss has to get Arkansas, as they've already protected LSU and Mississippi State. That leaves LSU and Mississippi State for each other, which gives LSU a protected rivalry against its most frequently played opponent.

Protected rivalries thus look like this:

Alabama: Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas: Mississippi, Missouri, Texas
Auburn: Alabama, Florida, Georgia
Florida: Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina
Georgia: Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
LSU: Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Mississippi: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State
Mississippi State: Alabama, LSU, Mississippi
Missouri: Arkansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma
Oklahoma: Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Vanderbilt
Tennessee: Alabama, Kentucky, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: LSU, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee

Not perfect, and admittedly, you can't make it perfect with only three protected rivalries per school. But still pretty good.

(11-03-2023 07:35 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Here's Alabama's TV ratings for 2022 and 2023 so far...

Saturday 10/15/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Tennessee SEC 6.1 11.56
Saturday 9/10/2022 noon FOX Alabama Texas Big 12 5.7 10.6
Saturday 11/12/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Mississippi SEC 4.8 8.71
Saturday 11/5/2022 7pm ESPN Alabama LSU SEC 3.9 7.58
Saturday 10/8/2022 8pm CBS Texas A&M Alabama SEC 3.9 7.15
Saturday 11/26/2022 3:30pm CBS Auburn Alabama SEC 3.2 6.27
Saturday 10/1/2022 3:30pm CBS Alabama Arkansas SEC 3.2 5.83
Saturday 10/22/2022 7pm ESPN Mississippi State Alabama SEC 1.9 3.59

Saturday 9/9/2023 7pm ESPN Texas Alabama SEC 4.5 8.76
Saturday 10/21/2023 3:30pm CBS Tennessee Alabama SEC 4.2 8.01
Saturday 10/7/2023 3:30pm CBS Alabama Texas A&M SEC 3.9 7.23
Saturday 9/16/2023 3;30pm ABC Alabama South Florida AAC 2.7 4.84
Saturday 9/23/2023 3:30pm CBS Mississippi Alabama SEC 2.6 4.61
Saturday 10/14/2023 noon ESPN Arkansas Alabama SEC 1.9 3.43
Saturday 9/30/2023 9pm ESPN Alabama Mississippi State SEC 1.8 3.35

Look what school is on the bottom of both lists both years. 3.59M and 3.35M for Alabama games is pathetic. Alabama got 4.84M for South Florida and I remember that game was ugly, I think RG3 was trying to convince fans to watch the second half because the second half couldn't get worse than the first half. Being on ESPN isn't an excuse, Alabama got huge numbers when they played LSU last year and Texas this year and CBS gets five Alabama games a year. Why does it seem Mississippi State never gets picked? There's a reason. Alabama-Mississippi State at 9pm ET? For the SEC, that's the graveyard shift. ESPN is really sticking an Alabama game there? Would Alabama-LSU or Texas-Alabama air at 9pm? No way.

The 11.56M last year was likely an aberration and UT hasn't been as good as they have been recently but it's obvious from a ratings standpoint UT-Bama will draw way more viewers annually than Miss St-Bama. Last year'S LSU game aired on ESPN and vs. the clinching game of the World Series. Most Alabama-LSU games are chosen by CBS although most games aren't as exciting a finish as last year's game. I'd also say LSU-Bama will draw way more viewers annually than Miss St-Bama (in 2022 both games aired on the same network and the same start time and Miss St-Bama didn't air vs. the World Series and yet LSU got more than twice the viewership).

Based on the last two years data, even if you say Alabama has no rival other than Auburn, a random SEC matchup is most likely to draw more viewers than a Mississippi State-Alabama game. I personally think the Big Ten not having Ohio State-Penn State is a bad call, Ohio State-Penn State annually will draw more viewers than a random Ohio State game but at least the Big Ten isn't protecting Ohio State-Illinois instead, that would be absolutely irresponsible.

Mississippi State fans and Alabama fans and SEC fans can tell me how important the rivalry is, I just don't care and most of the rest of the country doesn't, we care more about LSU-Alabama and Tennessee-Alabama or we'd rather Alabama play Georgia or Oklahoma or Texas more often. Why give Alabama one guaranteed game against an opponent most fans don't care about? Vanderbilt's not available? You don't think Illibuck isn't important to Ohio State or the Little Brown Jug isn't important to Michigan? But when the Big Ten went to divisions, they ended them as annual games for the good of the conference. Illinois hasn't played Ohio State since 2017 and won't play them next year. Fans don't want Ohio State playing Illinois, they'd rather them play USC and Oregon. Michigan-Minnesota was played this year on NBC. 3.06 million. Why should the Big Ten want that game played annually as opposed to Michigan playing other more popular schools more often?

If the SEC only wants to cater to a Southern audience, don't cry when more people watch the Big Ten and they get more money from networks. You want more money and more viewers, more Alabama-Tennesee, more Alabama-LSU, maybe more Alabama-Georgia (doesn't have to be annually but definitely more than when they had divisions). The Big Ten doesn't want to box themselves into just being a Midwestern conference, they want the East Coast with Penn State and now the West Coast with UCLA, USC, Oregon, and Washington. I said over in the Big 12 thread not every old rivalry is important. You can't force non Southern fans to care about schools we don't want to care about. The Big Ten doesn't force fans to care about Purdue. Don't care about Purdue. Care about the Big Three schools. There's plenty of SEC schools for us to care about, we shouldn't have to care about Mississippi State (until they win again).

Can someone who is good at math explain what SEC's options are if they elected to stay at 8 conference games, other than doing 1 permanent opponent and 7 of the other 14 every other year? I know the B1G had the initial "FlexProtect" for the anticipated 16 school league, but that was with 9 games. With the ACC staying at 8 games, and the backlash that already led to the 8 game schedule for next year, it wouldn't shock me if certain SEC schools, particularly Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, and Kentucky, who already have a 9th annual P4/A4/whatever game against ACC schools, will want the option for three winnable home games to ensure 7 home games a year and, for UK and the Cocks, a better shot at bowl eligibility.

(11-03-2023 09:07 AM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote:  Can someone who is good at math explain what SEC's options are if they elected to stay at 8 conference games, other than doing 1 permanent opponent and 7 of the other 14 every other year? I know the B1G had the initial "FlexProtect" for the anticipated 16 school league, but that was with 9 games. With the ACC staying at 8 games, and the backlash that already led to the 8 game schedule for next year, it wouldn't shock me if certain SEC schools, particularly Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, and Kentucky, who already have a 9th annual P4/A4/whatever game against ACC schools, will want the option for three winnable home games to ensure 7 home games a year and, for UK and the Cocks, a better shot at bowl eligibility.

The ACC stuck to an 8 game schedule and several schools had more than 1 permanent rival so many schools will play fewer than every other year as is the case in the Big Ten. Several ACC pairs will play just 2 times in 7 seasons. I doubt SEC schools will be required to play every other year either. Alabama and Georgia have played just once in the regular seasons in the last 8 years and it was during the pandemic year, anything more frequent will be a step up.

So with at least 11 people having voted, 4 matchups emerge as clear leaders:

Texas/Texas A&M (11)
Alabama/Tennessee (10)
Auburn/Georgia (9)
Tennessee/Vanderbilt (9)

No surprises there. The rest have 5 votes or fewer. While this is obviously a very small sample size, it's interesting to see this kind of separation already.

(11-02-2023 06:50 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 05:58 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  AL/TN
AU/GA
TN/Vandy
LSU/OM

AL/LSU is a much bigger deal for LSU than it is for Bama. They’d much rather keep the Tennessee game. And for Bama to have three permanents that are usually in the top half of the league is unfair. It wouldn’t be fair for UGA to have a third tough annual either if they have FL and AU. Or for TX if they already have OK/A&M.

I said in a thread in the P5 board that if Saban would accept Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU, 3-6-6 probably would have happened already.

I'm not even sure that's best for the SEC. Texas is already getting 2 tough opponents in OU and A&M, Alabama is already getting 2 tough opponents in Auburn and Tennessee, just give LSU a duo of A&M and OU or UF. The goal isn't to continue good but not GREAT rivalries, the goal is to keep the best of the best of the current rivalries, revive the A&M/UT hate fest b/c that's going to produce big $$ for ESPN, and find some amazing (especially for Ratings) new matchups featuring a mashup of the old and new schools. OU-Georgia. Texas-Tennessee? OU-LSU? Just make sure that the new kids on the block don't go 13 years before playing Georgia a 2nd time.

Burke Magnus has to be champing at the bit for 2024. He's going to have multiple BIG GAMES every single week and generate huge ratings, while his rivals at CBS are paying stupid money for an endless success of Michigan-UNLV.

Thought I'd give this a bump!

With at least 13 voters, our leaders remain the same as in my last post:

Texas/Texas A&M (13)
Alabama/Tennessee (12)
Auburn/Georgia (11)
Tennessee/Vanderbilt (10)

No other pairs have more than 6 votes.

Not that this necessarily means anything, but in taking a look at the announced 2024 SEC FB matchups, one could conceivably glean something about which pairs might or might not remain annual.



I'll note that missing from next year's schedule are matchups that I've seen proposed on this board as ones that would remain annual. These include Alabama/MSU, Georgia/SC, LSU/MSU, and Ole Miss/Vanderbilt. The middle two of those are the only options in the poll here that aren't being played in 2024. Of course, any or all of these could certainly be resumed as annual starting in 2025.

Here's the 2024 schedule again. I've highlighted particular matchups that I think will continue in any scenario (green), that are notable for their presence (blue), and that are notable for their absence (red).

If hypothetically Florida and Georgia don’t play every year as a conference game but schedule a late-October non-conference neutral site game in Jacksonville during the off years… who sells the TV rights to that game? Could be a loophole for the SEC to get money for a 9th game.

(11-17-2023 03:40 PM)Crayton Wrote:  If hypothetically Florida and Georgia don’t play every year as a conference game but schedule a late-October non-conference neutral site game in Jacksonville during the off years… who sells the TV rights to that game? Could be a loophole for the SEC to get money for a 9th game.

I doubt the SEC is that desperate. They'll either get money from ESPN (or some other network) for a 9th game, or they won't and stick at 8.

Just play a 15 game SEC schedule. Problem solved.

Mostly kidding. Assuming the OOC in-state games have to be played, and at least one warm-up, that really leaves only 10 games. So I'll propose a 5-5-5 model. 5 permanents, rotate the other 5 every other year.

For TN: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Vandy, KY.

(11-17-2023 04:34 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Just play a 15 game SEC schedule. Problem solved.

Mostly kidding. Assuming the OOC in-state games have to be played, and at least one warm-up, that really leaves only 10 games. So I'll propose a 5-5-5 model. 5 permanents, rotate the other 5 every other year.

For TN: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Vandy, KY.

I took a stab at this: