Flooding was my first idea.

(11-01-2023 09:00 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 08:21 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and will sink down all the way to the deepest of tunnels. At least they will die a peaceful death, never even knowing that they are being poisoned by the gas.

Not true, while CO is roughly the same weight as the major component of air, N2, the other major components of O2 and CO2 are clearly heavier than CO. Peaceful or not Cl2 would do the job very effectively, and is much heavier than any of the previously mentioned gases.

Look guys, why have they not found the hostages? Because they are in the tunnels. Why are they in the tunnels? So, the terrorists have protection against the very schemes you mention. It will take a special ops of tunnel rats to even get close, and when they do they'll start killing hostages 1 at the time until they withdraw. The best thing to hit those tunnels with is an aerosolized knockout drug. Real CS would cause severe illness to all and with some minor exceptions shouldn't prove fatal, and I'm talking the stuff we dropped in Nam so the chopper crews could exit with gas masks and pick up a puking pilot among the punking Cong or NVA and dd out. Surely, we have perfected one that just puts them all out. But even that plan is subject to the filters used on the masks. If the Hamas leadership is in the lower levels of those tunnels I guarandamntee you that's where the 240 plus hostages are. The Israelis will finish the work above ground and then map the tunnel system with GPR and start working on intercept tunnels which get them closer to the holding area bypassing booby traps. This will take a while.

(11-01-2023 09:30 PM)smudge12 Wrote:  Israel is a signatory of the Geneva Protocol; they won't use CO, CO2, etc.

Even without hostages present in prior conflicts, Israel didn't use chemical weapons to clear tunnels.

I'd also argue Hamas has ventilation systems and chemical respirators in place.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they've positively pressurized the tunnels.

I would add how many hostages are there? Where are they exactly? No one knows for sure. What is known is there is a tunnel system that harbors the enemy and assists their ability to fight. I will be surprised if Israel attempts any systematic/incremental/scapel approach. I hate that there is collateral damage but this is war. Israeli citizens and children were butchered in cold blood by the folks hiding in those tunnels. They were not given any mercy or compassion.

(11-01-2023 09:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:00 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 08:21 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and will sink down all the way to the deepest of tunnels. At least they will die a peaceful death, never even knowing that they are being poisoned by the gas.

Not true, while CO is roughly the same weight as the major component of air, N2, the other major components of O2 and CO2 are clearly heavier than CO. Peaceful or not Cl2 would do the job very effectively, and is much heavier than any of the previously mentioned gases.

Look guys, why have they not found the hostages? Because they are in the tunnels. Why are they in the tunnels? So, the terrorists have protection against the very schemes you mention. It will take a special ops of tunnel rats to even get close, and when they do they'll start killing hostages 1 at the time until they withdraw. The best thing to hit those tunnels with is a knockout drug. Real CS would cause severe illness to all and with some minor exceptions shouldn't prove fatal, and I'm talking the stuff we dropped in Nam so the chopper crews could exit with gas masks and pick up a puking pilot among the punking Cong or NVA and dd out. Surely, we have perfected one that just puts them all out. But even that plan is subject to the filters used on the masks. If the Hamas leadership is in the lower levels of those tunnels I guarandamntee you that's where the 240 plus hostages are. The Israelis will finish the work above ground and then map the tunnel system with GPR and start working on intercept tunnels which get them closer to the holding area bypassing booby traps. This will take a while.

IMO, the hostages will die no matter the action taken ... what remains of hamas' cowardly leadershite couldn't give two shites at this point ... they're merely buying time with the slimmest chance(s) for recovery or support from additional sourcing ... and when it comes down to 'crunch time', those rat bastards will slaughter every hostage before any version of the 'tunneled finale'....

hostages are now zero sum if one plays to win using logic as the construct ... logic can become one dangerous game at times ... specifically in warfare when the enemy knows it's televised/reported 24/7 to the globo-homo-emos, Ja?!

we live in different times today ... the self-imposed play-by-muh-rules are now the weakness which hamas and the antisemitic fully have at their disposal to use in exploit ... in their sick and twisted/fkbag minds, they win no matter the outcome...

this isn't war in any referral sense of the past ... this is all about defending a nation state using pure revenge as the motivator with only one goal at hand - #eradication

In my mind, that's how you win with the fewest allied casualties/further conflicts in the shortest amount of time...

we're getting ready to find out how they play it, Ja?!

#kill'emAll

(11-01-2023 11:18 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:00 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 08:21 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and will sink down all the way to the deepest of tunnels. At least they will die a peaceful death, never even knowing that they are being poisoned by the gas.

Not true, while CO is roughly the same weight as the major component of air, N2, the other major components of O2 and CO2 are clearly heavier than CO. Peaceful or not Cl2 would do the job very effectively, and is much heavier than any of the previously mentioned gases.

Look guys, why have they not found the hostages? Because they are in the tunnels. Why are they in the tunnels? So, the terrorists have protection against the very schemes you mention. It will take a special ops of tunnel rats to even get close, and when they do they'll start killing hostages 1 at the time until they withdraw. The best thing to hit those tunnels with is a knockout drug. Real CS would cause severe illness to all and with some minor exceptions shouldn't prove fatal, and I'm talking the stuff we dropped in Nam so the chopper crews could exit with gas masks and pick up a puking pilot among the punking Cong or NVA and dd out. Surely, we have perfected one that just puts them all out. But even that plan is subject to the filters used on the masks. If the Hamas leadership is in the lower levels of those tunnels I guarandamntee you that's where the 240 plus hostages are. The Israelis will finish the work above ground and then map the tunnel system with GPR and start working on intercept tunnels which get them closer to the holding area bypassing booby traps. This will take a while.

IMO, the hostages will die no matter the action taken ... what remains of hamas' cowardly leadershite couldn't give two shites at this point ... they're merely buying time with the slimmest chance(s) for recovery or support from additional sourcing ... and when it comes down to 'crunch time', those rat bastards will slaughter every hostage before any version of the 'tunneled finale'....

hostages are now zero sum if one plays to win using logic as the construct ... logic can become one dangerous game at times ... specifically in warfare when the enemy knows it's televised/reported 24/7 to the globo-homo-emos, Ja?!

we live in different times today ... the self-imposed play-by-muh-rules are now the weakness which hamas and the antisemitic fully have at their disposal to use in exploit ... in their sick and twisted/fkbag minds, they win no matter the outcome...

this isn't war in any referral sense of the past ... this is all about defending a nation state using pure revenge as the motivator with only one goal at hand - #eradication

In my mind, that's how you win with the fewest allied casualties/further conflicts in the shortest amount of time...

we're getting ready to find out how they play it, Ja?!

#kill'emAll

Right, so where is the propaganda value? If Netanyahu does something that Hamas can make look like Netanyahu blundered into killing his own people they win because that will sap the support for Israel's prime minister. If netanyahu proceeds slowly and cautiously and Hamas kills the hostages it only raise the ire of the Israelis and the world against Hamas. And should the IDF should rescue more while Hamas murders the rest it's a huge win for Netanyahu. And should by a stroke of luck he rescue most or all of them it will be looked upon as the providence of Yahweh being with Israel.

Of all of those scenarios only 1 is a loser. The IDF will avoid that at all costs. Now if Israel captures a number of Palestinians perhaps a swap can be made. IMO, this is why the ground war above the tunnels is prosecuted with some speed. Capture those people and work out an exchange and Netanyahu wins in the eyes of the worlds' non-Muslim public. Once the Strip is secured above, Israel can use technology, dig intersecting tunnels and monitor by equipment where hostages may appear as a group being held and where enemy combatants are likely to be. Then they can attempt to intersect a passage that separates the command locations below from where the hostages may be located and move in force in both directions. My bet is that the hostages will be ordered brought to where the leaders are and used as human shields, especially if they can get some cameras down there to horrify the world with the pictures.

That's how I see this playing out.

Therefore Stink how they die and by whose hand is important should they die. If any or all are rescued or swapped it's a win for Israel publicly.

(11-02-2023 12:05 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 11:18 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:00 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 08:21 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and will sink down all the way to the deepest of tunnels. At least they will die a peaceful death, never even knowing that they are being poisoned by the gas.

Not true, while CO is roughly the same weight as the major component of air, N2, the other major components of O2 and CO2 are clearly heavier than CO. Peaceful or not Cl2 would do the job very effectively, and is much heavier than any of the previously mentioned gases.

Look guys, why have they not found the hostages? Because they are in the tunnels. Why are they in the tunnels? So, the terrorists have protection against the very schemes you mention. It will take a special ops of tunnel rats to even get close, and when they do they'll start killing hostages 1 at the time until they withdraw. The best thing to hit those tunnels with is a knockout drug. Real CS would cause severe illness to all and with some minor exceptions shouldn't prove fatal, and I'm talking the stuff we dropped in Nam so the chopper crews could exit with gas masks and pick up a puking pilot among the punking Cong or NVA and dd out. Surely, we have perfected one that just puts them all out. But even that plan is subject to the filters used on the masks. If the Hamas leadership is in the lower levels of those tunnels I guarandamntee you that's where the 240 plus hostages are. The Israelis will finish the work above ground and then map the tunnel system with GPR and start working on intercept tunnels which get them closer to the holding area bypassing booby traps. This will take a while.

IMO, the hostages will die no matter the action taken ... what remains of hamas' cowardly leadershite couldn't give two shites at this point ... they're merely buying time with the slimmest chance(s) for recovery or support from additional sourcing ... and when it comes down to 'crunch time', those rat bastards will slaughter every hostage before any version of the 'tunneled finale'....

hostages are now zero sum if one plays to win using logic as the construct ... logic can become one dangerous game at times ... specifically in warfare when the enemy knows it's televised/reported 24/7 to the globo-homo-emos, Ja?!

we live in different times today ... the self-imposed play-by-muh-rules are now the weakness which hamas and the antisemitic fully have at their disposal to use in exploit ... in their sick and twisted/fkbag minds, they win no matter the outcome...

this isn't war in any referral sense of the past ... this is all about defending a nation state using pure revenge as the motivator with only one goal at hand - #eradication

In my mind, that's how you win with the fewest allied casualties/further conflicts in the shortest amount of time...

we're getting ready to find out how they play it, Ja?!

#kill'emAll

Right, so where is the propaganda value? If Netanyahu does something that Hamas can make look like Netanyahu blundered into killing his own people they win because that will sap the support for Israel's prime minister. If netanyahu proceeds slowly and cautiously and Hamas kills the hostages it only raise the ire of the Israelis and the world against Hamas. And should the IDF should rescue more while Hamas murders the rest it's a huge win for Netanyahu. And should by a stroke of luck he rescue most or all of them it will be looked upon as the providence of Yahweh being with Israel.

Of all of those scenarios only 1 is a loser. The IDF will avoid that at all costs. Now if Israel captures a number of Palestinians perhaps a swap can be made. IMO, this is why the ground war above the tunnels is prosecuted with some speed. Capture those people and work out an exchange and Netanyahu wins in the eyes of the worlds' non-Muslim public. Once the Strip is secured above, Israel can use technology, dig intersecting tunnels and monitor by equipment where hostages may appear as a group being held and where enemy combatants are likely to be. Then they can attempt to intersect a passage that separates the command locations below from where the hostages may be located and move in force in both directions. My bet is that the hostages will be ordered brought to where the leaders are and used as human shields, especially if they can get some cameras down there to horrify the world with the pictures.

That's how I see this playing out.

Therefore Stink how they die and by whose hand is important should they die. If any or all are rescued or swapped it's a win for Israel publicly.

I knew I should've added the following disclaimer: "my guess is Bibi takes the path of least resistance in another futile attempt to satiate the globo-homo-emos and antisemitic."

as always, your logic is flawless if 'attempt to temper propaganda' is mission critical ...

my POV is about overcoming the difficulty of such when using logic as the construct when #eradication is the sole goal in a nonnegotiable hostage situation ... if 100% eradication, there is no negotiation to be had ... if negotiation is to be had, then 100% eradication = 0

I have zero doubt you're right how this scenario plays out ... logic can be soulless and undiplomatic ... it's why we all loved some Spock vs. Kirk (didn't see that ref coming, eh?) ...

regardless how this is handled, the globo-homo-emos and antisemitics will continue to hate the Jews until every last one is wiped off the face of the third rock ... to that, I am certain...

I like the idea of filling every entrance you find with water.... just start pumping until the water is squirting out of the ground.

I know there are civilians there... but this shite has got to stop.

Who’s to say the majority of hostages are already dead? I heard on the that German girl they were parading around town from the music festival was still alive. Next an Israeli soldier finds a part of a skull which matched her dna.

When you are limited on supply of food and water how can you afford to keep 100 + plus hostages alive? Maybe you can give the appearance they are alive? Then again look what you are dealing with. You are dealing with Trash who places no value on human life so why should anyone place any value on theirs.

The Palestinian people will always be miserable until they come to the realization that allowing Thugs and hateful propaganda to control their lives through religion and political ideology will always bring them to despair and destruction. It just the reality of the situation.

(11-02-2023 08:05 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Who’s to say the majority of hostages are already dead? I heard on the that German girl they were parading around town from the music festival was still alive. Next an Israeli soldier finds a part of a skull which matched her dna.

When you are limited on supply of food and water how can you afford to keep 100 + plus hostages alive? Maybe you can give the appearance they are alive? Then again look what you are dealing with. You are dealing with Trash who places no value on human life so why should anyone place any value on theirs.

The Palestinian people will always be miserable until they come to the realization that allowing Thugs and hateful propaganda to control their lives through religion and political ideology will always bring them to despair and destruction. It just the reality of the situation.

that's another salient point ... one would assume they've stocked the shelves to the hilt with survival means for 'x' hamas body count ... death by emaciation would easily occur to the hostages before any in hamas ... it wouldn't be a stretch to assume some are already dead...

It's like an urban Vietnam.

(11-02-2023 08:24 AM)VA49er Wrote:  It's like an urban Vietnam.

dunno about that ... much smaller scale w/o the waterborne disease factor ... strategically, they're completely different in scope...

this one could be over quickly ... it simply depends how Bibi and his brass choose to play this one ... in that scope, I would concur (as I do agree with JR's logic above) ... they'll most likely drag it out to minimize the globo-homo-emo and antisemitic impact that would certainly be embellished and dished out from the libtard msm propaganda machine ... if they were to choose the other logical path to achieve the self-announced goal of #eradication, it's guaranteed one wouldn't be able to escape the "scorn heard 'round the world"..,.

as @theSadist, the former wouldn't be my option ... however, I don't pull those 'strings'...

in summation, I back up my position with sig line 5: "It is never sadistic to stand up to the barbaric - for it is they who summoned it!" - JRsec

which is followed by sig line 6: "Si vis pacem, para bellum" (translated) "if you want peace, prepare for war"