Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

Seattle was going to be Gonzaga's replacement anyway.

GCU was a non- profit school when they were having cash flow, and then went to for-profit which saved them from closing, and now they are back to non-profit. Several schools were like that like Southern New Hampshire, Keiser, etc.

ALL COLLEGES lie about the amount of money it costs to attend their school.
Always have...

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

That does make some sense Todor, but I would like you to read the article I am posting below:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/politics/...index.html

Per the IRS (Internal Revenue Service), Grand Canyon University is a non-profit institution. However, according to the Department of Education, for student financial aid reasons, Grand Canyon University is considered for-profit. GCU has sued the Dept of Education over that, with no end in sight. This legal conflict with the government, the doctoral degrees fiasco would definitely sour the WCC, IMO. No conference likes conflict-look no further thsn the SEC for that. The SEC has had to step in numerous times to mediate numerous conflicts just within its current membership!!! Would the SEC want any more conflict from a future member-no!!!

(11-01-2023 12:28 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

That does make some sense Todor, but I would like you to read the article I am posting below:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/politics/...index.html

Per the IRS (Internal Revenue Service), Grand Canyon University is a non-profit institution. However, according to the Department of Education, for student financial aid reasons, Grand Canyon University is considered for-profit. GCU has sued the Dept of Education over that, with no end in sight. This legal conflict with the government, the doctoral degrees fiasco would definitely sour the WCC, IMO. No conference likes conflict-look no further thsn the SEC for that. The SEC has had to step in numerous times to mediate numerous conflicts just within its current membership!!! Would the SEC want any more conflict from a future member-no!!!

I’d say their profit status as pending right now. Definitely no final and definite solution yet. To me, that is why the for profit issue still hangs over their heads and affects the view of them from potential conference homes.

Not to mention, being a huge, mostly online school, they will attract scrutiny into their financial practices. All schools are scrutinized by Federal officials, but GCU generates the big headlines.

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

For-profit schools should not be in the NCAA picture. At all.

If you have to wonder if a school is for-profit, stay away. It's like wondering if a job applicant's degree is real. If you have to wonder, your decision is made.

Sounds like they are ...digging themselves a huge hole they cant get out of..
Thank you, ladies and germs you've been great! Please tip your waiters!

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference.

Great news.

Invite Seattle U and (if/when the Zags leave) Cal Baptist for 10 all-sports members.

Done

(10-31-2023 09:52 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  GCU was a non- profit school when they were having cash flow, and then went to for-profit which saved them from closing, and now they are back to non-profit. Several schools were like that like Southern New Hampshire, Keiser, etc.

They are still a for-profit diploma mill.

(11-01-2023 07:04 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

For-profit schools should not be in the NCAA picture. At all.

If you have to wonder if a school is for-profit, stay away. It's like wondering if a job applicant's degree is real. If you have to wonder, your decision is made.

For profit(ie capitalism) education is bad, but for profit athletics like the B1G and SEC have right now is good?

(11-01-2023 12:21 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 07:04 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

For-profit schools should not be in the NCAA picture. At all.

If you have to wonder if a school is for-profit, stay away. It's like wondering if a job applicant's degree is real. If you have to wonder, your decision is made.

For profit(ie capitalism) education is bad, but for profit athletics like the B1G and SEC have right now is good?

I'll address this from my (and possibly Todor's) viewpoint: I personally have no issue with GCU on the non-profit/for-profit issue. The main issue I have with GCU is lying to their doctorsl students or possibly intentionally misleading them, as well as not being able to resolve their dispute with the Department of Education. Simultaneously, I have an issue with the Department of Education with viewing GCU differently than how the IRS does, among other issues that I have with the US Dept. Of Education.

(11-01-2023 07:04 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 08:55 PM)Todor Wrote:  Now they are being fined almost $40 million dollars for misleading students about the cost of their graduate programs. They told students their programs would cost between $40-49,999, but less than 2% of the students finished paying that much.

Article also states that for the last 4 years, they have distributed the most Federal Aid of any institution in the country.

This is exactly why they are unlikely to be invited into the West Coast Conference. On its own, this was bad information from admissions reps and/or misunderstandings. But when you get into the for profit status, all of the other claims regarding their business practices, past fines for various violations, you come up with something the WCC wouldnt touch. Not necessarily because any one thing is so bad, not because you never know what is going to come up next. All of this stuff keeps popping up, year after year. It’s always something else with them.

https://apnews.com/article/grand-canyon-...192780ae96

For-profit schools should not be in the NCAA picture. At all.

If you have to wonder if a school is for-profit, stay away. It's like wondering if a job applicant's degree is real. If you have to wonder, your decision is made.

Academy of Arts and Post University are 2 that are actually For Profit schools in D2.

(11-01-2023 11:40 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 09:52 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  GCU was a non- profit school when they were having cash flow, and then went to for-profit which saved them from closing, and now they are back to non-profit. Several schools were like that like Southern New Hampshire, Keiser, etc.

They are still a for-profit diploma mill.

You can say that for many of the schools that are regularly discussed here too.

More about Brian Mueller, president of both Grand Canyon University and the Wall Street corporation Grand Canyon Education Corp. It’s a good look at how things are done there.

Republic Report is a blog that looks into various corrupt and shady dealings in for profit education.

https://www.republicreport.org/2023/bria...education/

(11-20-2023 12:25 AM)Todor Wrote:  More about Brian Mueller, president of both Grand Canyon University and the Wall Street corporation Grand Canyon Education Corp. It’s a good look at how things are done there.

Republic Report is a blog that looks into various corrupt and shady dealings in for profit education.

https://www.republicreport.org/2023/bria...education/

Hmmm. Thank you for that database, Todor. Very eye-opening, IMO. GCEC needs to be non-profit as welll, IMO. Whwn I first read about GCEC, I thought ir was like Chris-Tex, which is basically Pensacola Christian College's endowment. As I read further, it is not. GCEC should be more like Chris-Tex, IMO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensacol...#Chris-Tex

To the best of my knowledge, PCC receives no funding from federal or state government. Bob Jones U. in South Carolina used to be like that, but they have changed.

(11-20-2023 02:00 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(11-20-2023 12:25 AM)Todor Wrote:  More about Brian Mueller, president of both Grand Canyon University and the Wall Street corporation Grand Canyon Education Corp. It’s a good look at how things are done there.

Republic Report is a blog that looks into various corrupt and shady dealings in for profit education.

https://www.republicreport.org/2023/bria...education/

Hmmm. Thank you for that database, Todor. Very eye-opening, IMO. GCEC needs to be non-profit as welll, IMO. Whwn I first read about GCEC, I thought ir was like Chris-Tex, which is basically Pensacola Christian College's endowment. As I read further, it is not. GCEC should be more like Chris-Tex, IMO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensacol...#Chris-Tex

To the best of my knowledge, PCC receives no funding from federal or state government. Bob Jones U. in South Carolina used to be like that, but they have changed.

As far as for profit education goes, I think Grand Canyon is one of the top schools, one of the most reputable and legit. But it’s still for profit. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t a good thing overall, or that they dont do right by their students.

But requirements of a for profit, publicly traded company require them to maximize revenue. And that includes doing things like spending large sums of money lobbying to find ways to increase their business. And since they are the largest receiver of federal student aid in the country, they lobby politicians who can help them achieve that, and more.

It’s an inherent conflict between the corporation and regulators. And if your business model is to get public money, that’s just part of the business.

Without becoming for profit, GCU would have gone bankrupt and closed 20 years ago. With out taking over an existing college brand, name, campus, history, and accreditation, the capital that went into GCU would have likely gone elsewhere because building a university from scratch is too risky and too expensive for Wall Street money most times. So the the two components are stuck with each other.

Southern New Hampshire University and Keiser both were for profit at one time, and they went to none profit, and they are recognized now as none profit. Purdue took over a for profit school and now call it Purdue Global, and they are still being listed as for profit as well. What GCU and Purdue Global needed to do is remove the for profit guys behind the schools 100% away from the schools. They don't need to be involved anymore. Once those guys are removed who are part of for profit? They will not be recognized as none profit schools.

(11-20-2023 05:09 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southern New Hampshire University and Keiser both were for profit at one time, and they went to none profit, and they are recognized now as none profit. Purdue took over a for profit school and now call it Purdue Global, and they are still being listed as for profit as well. What GCU and Purdue Global needed to do is remove the for profit guys behind the schools 100% away from the schools. They don't need to be involved anymore. Once those guys are removed who are part of for profit? They will not be recognized as none profit schools.

This is actually a good post. Very valid points.

Purdue Global still being listed as for-profit surprises me, to be honest. You'd think they would've taken the necessary steps to change that by now, a couple of which you've already mentioned. Also, I've heard of SNHU (obviously), but not Keiser so I need some enlightening, if you wouldn't mind doing that for the class. Thanks.

(11-20-2023 05:15 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(11-20-2023 05:09 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southern New Hampshire University and Keiser both were for profit at one time, and they went to none profit, and they are recognized now as none profit. Purdue took over a for profit school and now call it Purdue Global, and they are still being listed as for profit as well. What GCU and Purdue Global needed to do is remove the for profit guys behind the schools 100% away from the schools. They don't need to be involved anymore. Once those guys are removed who are part of for profit? They will not be recognized as none profit schools.

This is actually a good post. Very valid points.

Purdue Global still being listed as for-profit surprises me, to be honest. You'd think they would've taken the necessary steps to change that by now, a couple of which you've already mentioned. Also, I've heard of SNHU (obviously), but not Keiser so I need some enlightening, if you wouldn't mind doing that for the class. Thanks.

The reason that it surprises you is that David just made it up, lol. Compare Grand Canyon University scorecard vs. Purdue University Global scorecard.