(10-19-2023 02:23 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 02:00 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  DeSantis said he wouldn't touch entitlements after voicing to raise the retirement ages. So how do you cut the deficit without touching the ages, addressing the cap, or sending medicaid to the states? Has Ron addressed this?

Trump has spent countless tweets and time attacking Ron DeSantis for cutting medicare and wanting to raise the retirement age to 70 (for future SS recipients not anyone currently or right about to receive). And yes he has addressed it many times. How can he both be attacked for wanting to something about it and be called for not doing anything about it. It's incredible.

(10-19-2023 02:00 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The issue is that the GOPe controls the purse and THEY like DeSantis because he is malleable to what they want. Not sure how you can't see that point.

You have zero proof of this. And I actually have proof against. He was warned by his big donors not to fight Disney. Same thing with fighting DEI and globalism in Florida (foreign farm bills, digitals currency bills)And also some even pulled out over his 12 week abortion ban. He still did all those. He has shown in the past that he is perfectly willing to go against his donors on things he believes in.

DeSantis has actually fought the globalist agenda. While Trump put Christopher Wray in power. I also don't remember DeSantis ever going behind republicans backs to negotiate a spending bill that gave dems almost entirely what they want. Trump did.

The issue is that he caves when pressure is applied to him. You keep bringing up Trump in this discussion yet that keeps making my point.

So DeSantis no longer believes we should cut/reform entitlements. That's why Trump called out the flip flop numerous times. They are both no different on the deficit/debt.

In Congress, RDS voted with Trump like 94% of the time. He lost the Disney battle so I'm not sure how that's a win?

The issue with DeSantis is his constant flip flopping on many issues yet portrays himself as a principled conservative that has never backed down, and you have seem to fallen for it all.

(10-19-2023 02:45 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 02:23 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 02:00 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  DeSantis said he wouldn't touch entitlements after voicing to raise the retirement ages. So how do you cut the deficit without touching the ages, addressing the cap, or sending medicaid to the states? Has Ron addressed this?

Trump has spent countless tweets and time attacking Ron DeSantis for cutting medicare and wanting to raise the retirement age to 70 (for future SS recipients not anyone currently or right about to receive). And yes he has addressed it many times. How can he both be attacked for wanting to something about it and be called for not doing anything about it. It's incredible.

(10-19-2023 02:00 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The issue is that the GOPe controls the purse and THEY like DeSantis because he is malleable to what they want. Not sure how you can't see that point.

You have zero proof of this. And I actually have proof against. He was warned by his big donors not to fight Disney. Same thing with fighting DEI and globalism in Florida (foreign farm bills, digitals currency bills)And also some even pulled out over his 12 week abortion ban. He still did all those. He has shown in the past that he is perfectly willing to go against his donors on things he believes in.

DeSantis has actually fought the globalist agenda. While Trump put Christopher Wray in power. I also don't remember DeSantis ever going behind republicans backs to negotiate a spending bill that gave dems almost entirely what they want. Trump did.

The issue is that he caves when pressure is applied to him. You keep bringing up Trump in this discussion yet that keeps making my point.

So DeSantis no longer believes we should cut/reform entitlements. That's why Trump called out the flip flop numerous times. They are both no different on the deficit/debt.

In Congress, RDS voted with Trump like 94% of the time. He lost the Disney battle so I'm not sure how that's a win?

The issue with DeSantis is his constant flip flopping on many issues yet portrays himself as a principled conservative that has never backed down, and you have seem to fallen for it all.

I don't really have time to go through each of these but,

Ron DeSantis flipped his position on Social Security.
In Congress, DeSantis supported privatizing Social Security and backed plans from Rep. Paul Ryan to privatize the program.
In 2023, DeSantis dismissed the idea that Republicans would dismantle Social Security.

Privatizing something is not the same as getting rid of something. If healthcare in Canada is privatized only a liberal idiot would call that getting rid of healthcare.

But, let's take it further. Recently he said there wasn't the political will power to privatize social security. So raising the retirement age is what he supports since even with a republican congress, and presidency the privatizing plans didn't go very far. So he has to compromise on that. Some things you have to compromise on. Some things you have to draw the line and say no.

Ron DeSantis flipped his position on disaster relief.
In Congress, DeSantis voted against disaster relief for Hurricane Sandy.
Following Hurricane Ian, DeSantis requested federal aid.

Oh good lord I'm stopping here. What is this a democrat hit piece on him? He voted against that bill because it was a bloat bill that had very little to do with hurricane Sandy. Democrats filled that bill with pork just so they could attack republicans for not voting on it. If it had just been Sandy aid he would have voted on it.

These kind of hit pieces are reprehensible for anyone on the right to be using as they are leftist lies regurgitated barf.

If you have some specific flip flop you think I should respond to then go for it. But, actually posting liberal trash to support your attacks on him. Good lord.

And no he has not lost the battle with Disney. Disney has dropped all but 1 lawsuit actually which is still in court. I'd call that generally winning.

(10-19-2023 03:01 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  Ron DeSantis flipped his position on Social Security.
In Congress, DeSantis supported privatizing Social Security and backed plans from Rep. Paul Ryan to privatize the program.
In 2023, DeSantis dismissed the idea that Republicans would dismantle Social Security.

Privatizing something is not the same as getting rid of something. If healthcare in Canada is privatized only a liberal idiot would call that getting rid of healthcare.

But, let's take it further. Recently he said there wasn't the political will power to privatize social security. So raising the retirement age is what he supports since even with a republican congress, and presidency the privatizing plans didn't go very far. So he has to compromise on that. Some things you have to compromise on. Some things you have to draw the line and say no.

Ron DeSantis flipped his position on disaster relief.
In Congress, DeSantis voted against disaster relief for Hurricane Sandy.
Following Hurricane Ian, DeSantis requested federal aid.

Oh good lord I'm stopping here. What is this a democrat hit piece on him? He voted against that bill because it was a bloat bill that had very little to do with hurricane Sandy. Democrats filled that bill with pork just so they could attack republicans for not voting on it. If it had just been Sandy aid he would have voted on it.

These kind of hit pieces are reprehensible for anyone on the right to be using as they are leftist lies regurgitated barf.

If you have some specific flip flop you think I should respond to then go for it. But, actually posting liberal trash to support your attacks on him. Good lord.

And no he has not lost the battle with Disney. Disney has dropped all but 1 lawsuit actually which is still in court. I'd call that generally winning.

So you're going to cut the deficit by raising the retirement age by thee years for seniors which saves around $200B over the next decade (according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget)...that's quite a reformer. The debt to GDP ratio wouldn't even budge...To compromise on that issue is pretty big, no?

He wouldn't propose any real reforms then. So the deficit will be left untouched like it always has been. Yet you will pretend he's Newt Gingrich for some reason. I'd actually love for him to propose massive cuts and just go for it. I would support that and would stand by him, but we all know it would be lip service ala the Establishment gave voters during the Tea Party wave.

You can get mad at the source I sent over but it doesn't change his legislative past and his flip flopping on various issues. I don't carry water for Trump, you should consider the same for DeSantis.

(10-19-2023 01:08 PM)Claw Wrote:  Stupid idea. Yeah its bloated in D.C., but move things and they will forever be moving them around to the states they won.

NASA hasn't been moved since LBJ got it there.

And if they do move, fine. They will shed employees every time.

(10-19-2023 12:38 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  Is Ron aware that you have to run effective campaigns in order to "de-DC" DC?

Ron's best chance in 2028 is a landslide win for Biden next year (more than 2020) with Trump entirely repudiated. Then maybe he can say "I told you so MAGA cannot win on its own"

He can't run again in Florida, so alienating 50-60% of the GOP base may cost him his entire political future.

Conservatives in general don't understand that you have to actually win elections to change things rather than just crying about Rinos and nominating people who have no chance to win.

(10-19-2023 05:58 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 12:38 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  Is Ron aware that you have to run effective campaigns in order to "de-DC" DC?

Ron's best chance in 2028 is a landslide win for Biden next year (more than 2020) with Trump entirely repudiated. Then maybe he can say "I told you so MAGA cannot win on its own"

He can't run again in Florida, so alienating 50-60% of the GOP base may cost him his entire political future.

Conservatives in general don't understand that you have to actually win elections to change things rather than just crying about Rinos and nominating people who have no chance to win.

If Trump didn’t pull off the upset in 2016 you’d have a total leftist SCOTUS that would rubber stamp any Democratic legislation for the next thirty years.


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(10-19-2023 03:17 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 03:01 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  Ron DeSantis flipped his position on Social Security.
In Congress, DeSantis supported privatizing Social Security and backed plans from Rep. Paul Ryan to privatize the program.
In 2023, DeSantis dismissed the idea that Republicans would dismantle Social Security.

Privatizing something is not the same as getting rid of something. If healthcare in Canada is privatized only a liberal idiot would call that getting rid of healthcare.

But, let's take it further. Recently he said there wasn't the political will power to privatize social security. So raising the retirement age is what he supports since even with a republican congress, and presidency the privatizing plans didn't go very far. So he has to compromise on that. Some things you have to compromise on. Some things you have to draw the line and say no.

Ron DeSantis flipped his position on disaster relief.
In Congress, DeSantis voted against disaster relief for Hurricane Sandy.
Following Hurricane Ian, DeSantis requested federal aid.

Oh good lord I'm stopping here. What is this a democrat hit piece on him? He voted against that bill because it was a bloat bill that had very little to do with hurricane Sandy. Democrats filled that bill with pork just so they could attack republicans for not voting on it. If it had just been Sandy aid he would have voted on it.

These kind of hit pieces are reprehensible for anyone on the right to be using as they are leftist lies regurgitated barf.

If you have some specific flip flop you think I should respond to then go for it. But, actually posting liberal trash to support your attacks on him. Good lord.

And no he has not lost the battle with Disney. Disney has dropped all but 1 lawsuit actually which is still in court. I'd call that generally winning.

So you're going to cut the deficit by raising the retirement age by thee years for seniors which saves around $200B over the next decade (according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget)...that's quite a reformer. The debt to GDP ratio wouldn't even budge...To compromise on that issue is pretty big, no?

He wouldn't propose any real reforms then. So the deficit will be left untouched like it always has been. Yet you will pretend he's Newt Gingrich for some reason. I'd actually love for him to propose massive cuts and just go for it. I would support that and would stand by him, but we all know it would be lip service ala the Establishment gave voters during the Tea Party wave.

You can get mad at the source I sent over but it doesn't change his legislative past and his flip flopping on various issues. I don't carry water for Trump, you should consider the same for DeSantis.

Here's my original post that started all this just for clarity.

Unfortunately Trump and his media have successfully managed to convince a large section of the GOP that DeSantis is a swamp creature. Despite his ACTIONS proving he is a strong conservative against the globalist agenda. While they are convinced that Trump is an actual conservative while Trump's ACTIONS (increasing the deficit, appointing Wray to run the FBI, giving Fauci a speaking platform, etc) have shown that Trump is a lot closer to the swamp creature than DeSantis is.

But, people will continue to cheer the loser on. I guess when he losses in 2024 they will be talking about how great his 2028 run will be.

Meanwhile they are all dogpilling on a real conservative who actually has done incredible work in Florida.

It had nothing to do with DeSantis being some amazing cost cutter. Though I think he would do better than Trump. At the very least I am convinced he wouldn't negotiate an increase in spending with the dems over a republican congress.

It was a post about how we actually have someone in Florida who has been fighting the globalist agenda and has been pushing good strong conservative agenda. And he's he has the far left losing their absolute minds over him. But, then the Trump aligned media and somewhat Trump himself have made him out to be a swamp creature.

When as per my original points Trump has come far closer to putting the swamp in power not DeSantis.

And ya I have a problem with a source that pretty much made up crap about the Sandy bill and why DeSantis didn't vote for it. A bill which dozens of republicans voted against for the fact that it was mostly dem pork and not Sandy aid. All true republicans should be against that. If you have a specific thing that DeSantis flipped on that isn't from a hack dem. then go for it.

I'm just sick of republicans attacking actual good policy. I mean I don't like Trump, but I don't like republican politicians attacking him either unless it's over very clear policy differences. These attacks on DeSantis are not policy differences. Saying he is aligned with the swamp and not being able to come up with actions that support that theory are attempts to destroy the man. (Talking about the politicians and media doing this not anyone on the message boards.) That leads to short sighted victories that hurt conservatives and America in the long run.

(10-19-2023 06:52 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 03:17 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 03:01 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  Ron DeSantis flipped his position on Social Security.
In Congress, DeSantis supported privatizing Social Security and backed plans from Rep. Paul Ryan to privatize the program.
In 2023, DeSantis dismissed the idea that Republicans would dismantle Social Security.

Privatizing something is not the same as getting rid of something. If healthcare in Canada is privatized only a liberal idiot would call that getting rid of healthcare.

But, let's take it further. Recently he said there wasn't the political will power to privatize social security. So raising the retirement age is what he supports since even with a republican congress, and presidency the privatizing plans didn't go very far. So he has to compromise on that. Some things you have to compromise on. Some things you have to draw the line and say no.

Ron DeSantis flipped his position on disaster relief.
In Congress, DeSantis voted against disaster relief for Hurricane Sandy.
Following Hurricane Ian, DeSantis requested federal aid.

Oh good lord I'm stopping here. What is this a democrat hit piece on him? He voted against that bill because it was a bloat bill that had very little to do with hurricane Sandy. Democrats filled that bill with pork just so they could attack republicans for not voting on it. If it had just been Sandy aid he would have voted on it.

These kind of hit pieces are reprehensible for anyone on the right to be using as they are leftist lies regurgitated barf.

If you have some specific flip flop you think I should respond to then go for it. But, actually posting liberal trash to support your attacks on him. Good lord.

And no he has not lost the battle with Disney. Disney has dropped all but 1 lawsuit actually which is still in court. I'd call that generally winning.

So you're going to cut the deficit by raising the retirement age by thee years for seniors which saves around $200B over the next decade (according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget)...that's quite a reformer. The debt to GDP ratio wouldn't even budge...To compromise on that issue is pretty big, no?

He wouldn't propose any real reforms then. So the deficit will be left untouched like it always has been. Yet you will pretend he's Newt Gingrich for some reason. I'd actually love for him to propose massive cuts and just go for it. I would support that and would stand by him, but we all know it would be lip service ala the Establishment gave voters during the Tea Party wave.

You can get mad at the source I sent over but it doesn't change his legislative past and his flip flopping on various issues. I don't carry water for Trump, you should consider the same for DeSantis.

Here's my original post that started all this just for clarity.

Unfortunately Trump and his media have successfully managed to convince a large section of the GOP that DeSantis is a swamp creature. Despite his ACTIONS proving he is a strong conservative against the globalist agenda. While they are convinced that Trump is an actual conservative while Trump's ACTIONS (increasing the deficit, appointing Wray to run the FBI, giving Fauci a speaking platform, etc) have shown that Trump is a lot closer to the swamp creature than DeSantis is.

But, people will continue to cheer the loser on. I guess when he losses in 2024 they will be talking about how great his 2028 run will be.

Meanwhile they are all dogpilling on a real conservative who actually has done incredible work in Florida.

It had nothing to do with DeSantis being some amazing cost cutter. Though I think he would do better than Trump. At the very least I am convinced he wouldn't negotiate an increase in spending with the dems over a republican congress.

It was a post about how we actually have someone in Florida who has been fighting the globalist agenda and has been pushing good strong conservative agenda. And he's he has the far left losing their absolute minds over him. But, then the Trump aligned media and somewhat Trump himself have made him out to be a swamp creature.

When as per my original points Trump has come far closer to putting the swamp in power not DeSantis.

And ya I have a problem with a source that pretty much made up crap about the Sandy bill and why DeSantis didn't vote for it. A bill which dozens of republicans voted against for the fact that it was mostly dem pork and not Sandy aid. All true republicans should be against that. If you have a specific thing that DeSantis flipped on that isn't from a hack dem. then go for it.

I'm just sick of republicans attacking actual good policy. I mean I don't like Trump, but I don't like republican politicians attacking him either unless it's over very clear policy differences. These attacks on DeSantis are not policy differences. Saying he is aligned with the swamp and not being able to come up with actions that support that theory are attempts to destroy the man. (Talking about the politicians and media doing this not anyone on the message boards.) That leads to short sighted victories that hurt conservatives and America in the long run.

I like DeSantis and hope he can recover from this campaign. And it’s not that I don’t agree with some of your points as we likely overlap on policy for sure, especially about DJT, but I think people branding RDS as a Reagan-esque conservative seems out of bounds.

There are things i agree with aforementioned RINOs on and there things I agree with MAGA on. I think failed RINO policy led to Trump which destabilized the conservative movement and empowered leftists.

Enjoyed the conversation though, hope you didn’t take anything personal.


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