Quote:The United States on Tuesday said it has documented more than 180 incidents since 2021 of “coercive and risky” maneuvers by Chinese military planes toward US forces in international airspace that could spark inadvertent conflict.

US-China relations are at their lowest point in years, with tension over a range of issues including trade, human rights, Taiwan and the South China Sea. The United States says it now sees China as its top geopolitical rival.

The Pentagon said these aggressive tactics by Chinese aircraft threatened US planes flying in international airspace over the East and South China Sea regions.

“That’s nearly 200 cases where (Chinese) operators have… discharged chaff or shot off flares or approached too rapidly or close to US aircraft,” Assistant Secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs Ely Ratner told a news conference.

“This type of operational behavior can cause accidents, and dangerous accidents can lead to inadvertent conflict,” Ratner said, adding that the incident count, tallied since the fall of 2021, increases to nearly 300 when US allies are included.

Ratner alleged there was a concerted campaign by Beijing “to perform these risky behaviors in order to coerce a change in lawful US operational activity.”

“The United States will not be deterred, or coerced. We will continue to fly, sail, and operate safely and responsibly, wherever international law allows,” he said.

In one instance, Ratner said, a Chinese fighter plane “approached our asset at a speed of hundreds of miles per hour, clearly armed and closing to just 30 feet away,” and stayed there for more than 15 minutes.

Tuesday’s news conference came after previous warnings from the White House over the summer that Chinese military aggressiveness at sea and in the air was leading to near collisions, and could soon lead to casualties.

“It won’t be long before somebody gets hurt,” National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told reporters in June.

Ratner said the dangerous jet intercepts fit in a broader pattern of provocative naval and land maneuvers.

“We’re seeing it on land against our Indian partners,” Ratner said. “So this is part of a much broader picture.”

China and India share a long land border, and disputes over parts of it have in recent years led to military casualties on both sides.

Regarding the jet incursions, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has spoken “publicly and privately with allies and partners and frankly, privately with PRC counterparts,” Ratner said, using the initials for the People’s Republic of China, the country’s official name.

Ratner also blamed the incidents on China declining “our invitations to open lines of military-to-military communication at the senior-most levels.”

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Have we apologized yet?

A while back, China was bragging about having a missle/bomb/something designed to sink an American aircraft carrier.

I expect they will try to deploy one of these if our carriers become actively engaged.

I hope nothing comes of it, but with two carriers in the gulf, this is going to be a risk we have not faced.

Shoot one down.

Yep, make it clear that future events such as these will be considered hostile and we will react accordingly.

China needs to to learn to stay in their own hemisphere and keep away from our borders. Only a country openly seeking confrontation would act in such a way.

(10-18-2023 07:51 PM)Todor Wrote:  China needs to to learn to stay in their own hemisphere and keep away from our borders. Only a country openly seeking confrontation would act in such a way.

They know we have a coward as president.

(10-18-2023 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Have we apologized yet?

Give 'em a break. They are just trying to figure out if Tom Cruise really did all of those things in an outdated F14 Tomcat because American pilots are just better. All our guys have to do to set them back a decade is go inverted canopy to canopy and give them the bird! They'll bug out, right? Supposedly, the modern designs they stole from us for the Raptor and others are not powered as well as ours. We should hit the burners and see if they really can keep up. If not we know. That's how you feel out the enemy. And that information can be used in combat. But when we do we shouldn't show the top speed, just enough to know how fast theirs's are.

(10-19-2023 03:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Have we apologized yet?

Give 'em a break. They are just trying to figure out if Tom Cruise really did all of those things in an outdated F14 Tomcat because American pilots are just better. All our guys have to do to set them back a decade is go inverted canopy to canopy and give them the bird! They'll bug out, right? Supposedly, the modern designs they stole from us for the Raptor and others are not powered as well as ours. We should hit the burners and see if they really can keep up. If not we know. That's how you feel out the enemy. And that information can be used in combat. But when we do we shouldn't show the top speed, just enough to know how fast theirs's are.

I still have faith in fighter pilots, marines, seals, and rangers.

Most of the military is just a big social welfare system for people who failed at everything else but didnt become govt (public) school teachers.

Feel free to correct my thinkin

(10-19-2023 03:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Have we apologized yet?

Give 'em a break. They are just trying to figure out if Tom Cruise really did all of those things in an outdated F14 Tomcat because American pilots are just better. All our guys have to do to set them back a decade is go inverted canopy to canopy and give them the bird! They'll bug out, right? Supposedly, the modern designs they stole from us for the Raptor and others are not powered as well as ours. We should hit the burners and see if they really can keep up. If not we know. That's how you feel out the enemy. And that information can be used in combat. But when we do we shouldn't show the top speed, just enough to know how fast theirs's are.

From what I can tell it isn't our fighter jets that they are approaching... it is the prop planes that are collecting intelligence on them. Kind of hard for them to mess with the Chinese fighters.

(10-19-2023 10:07 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 03:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Have we apologized yet?

Give 'em a break. They are just trying to figure out if Tom Cruise really did all of those things in an outdated F14 Tomcat because American pilots are just better. All our guys have to do to set them back a decade is go inverted canopy to canopy and give them the bird! They'll bug out, right? Supposedly, the modern designs they stole from us for the Raptor and others are not powered as well as ours. We should hit the burners and see if they really can keep up. If not we know. That's how you feel out the enemy. And that information can be used in combat. But when we do we shouldn't show the top speed, just enough to know how fast theirs's are.

From what I can tell it isn't our fighter jets that they are approaching... it is the prop planes that are collecting intelligence on them. Kind of hard for them to mess with the Chinese fighters.

AWACS and other intelligence gathering aircraft usually fly with fighter jet cover. My brother flew for the NSA in Afghanistan. They didn't have attack aircraft but did have missiles. He had cover below and above including aircraft which looked like intelligence gathering craft but were actually jamming missile guidance systems. His mission was catching and gathering all communications. China is of course sensitive to this, and I was being humorous with the post, not anal about the details. I was being serious about the capabilities, or lack thereof regarding the Raptor knockoff they've done. BTW: This behavior has been going on from the Chinese both in the air and on the sea for some time now, as in years. So far the main concern for me has been the hacking of GPS for the surface craft navigation resulting in some collisions with not only underwater obstructions but with other vessels. Clearly they are trying to test our capabilities and test their own systems, which are acts of an aggressor, not a trading partner, and the chief reason that manufacture of military parts in China for American weapons systems is insane, and even more disturbing is the % of our total pharmaceutical requirements which are produced there.

(10-19-2023 10:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Clearly they are trying to test our capabilities and test their own systems, which are acts of an aggressor, not a trading partner, and the chief reason that manufacture of military parts in China for American weapons systems is insane, and even more disturbing is the % of our total pharmaceutical requirements which are produced there.

You'll get no argument from me on any of that. I've been unhappy about the amount of IP that is manufactured over there knowing that China has been stealing that IP for decades. I've never understood why a company like Apple, or Cisco, or anyone else for that matter, would manufacture your most prized hardware overseas. Only thing I can think of is that they decided the software was the real innovation, not the hardware.

(10-19-2023 10:42 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 10:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Clearly they are trying to test our capabilities and test their own systems, which are acts of an aggressor, not a trading partner, and the chief reason that manufacture of military parts in China for American weapons systems is insane, and even more disturbing is the % of our total pharmaceutical requirements which are produced there.

You'll get no argument from me on any of that. I've been unhappy about the amount of IP that is manufactured over there knowing that China has been stealing that IP for decades. I've never understood why a company like Apple, or Cisco, or anyone else for that matter, would manufacture your most prized hardware overseas. Only thing I can think of is that they decided the software was the real innovation, not the hardware.

There are only 2 reasons why it is done:

1. Cheap labor, virtually slave wages at that.

2. To be granted access to Chinese markets, which is precisely where the knockoffs are wiping out the benefit of access. So back to #1.

The only other cautionary quip I would make is why do you trust a country to make your pharmaceuticals when they were producing children's toys for sale in the U.S. which contained materials toxic to humans?