(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 10:45 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 09:54 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-17-2023 01:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  1). You replied to my post, but failed to answer the only question that I asked you. I boldened the question above to give you another chance to actually respond to my post. It's understandable if you won't answer it though - you know, speak no evil about the home team and all that.

2). I've laid out what I am primarily "not happy" about and you chose to ignore it so "yes", I'm not happy at all about how this administration is "handling" things. The term - going to hell in a hand basket applies here.

3). Speaking of gasoline, I would add that I am also unhappy about Biden significantly depleting our Strategic Oil Reserves just to lower the price of gas at the pump.

4). And lastly to answer YOUR question to me - If Biden would publicly admit that he and his family are raking in millions by selling political favors to China, Russia, Ukraine, etc. then I would give him credit for admitting it instead of lying to us about it.

I didn't answer because you spout misinformation and right wing propaganda as if it were fact. I didn't care to correct you, because it was only going to turn the conversation into a back and forth about the merits of your points, which I just dont have the energy to get in to.

For example, in your list of points that you hold against Biden, you list wars that started despite who was in office, mention high prices of food and gas (from inflation) despite the inflation arising from poor Trump economic policies and COVID, a border situation that no President has managed to solve Trump and Bush included, and then devolve into right wing propaganda that i'm expected to assume has merit (spoiler alert, it doesn't), all while piling the blame onto Biden because it's convenient.

Honestly, I was on the verge of answering until I realized that you somehow fail to give credit for Biden's energy policies on Oil production while blaming him for high gas prices at the same time. You gave away the game there

Wow! If you actually believe what you just posted then that's a pretty sad assessment of your ability to rationalize what's going on in the world and why. For example, if you can't see (and be honest) about the enormous change that has occurred at the southern border regarding the millions of illegals coming into the country since Biden drastically changed things with border security then you're simply too far gone to acknowledge facts and will cover for the home team (Democrat) no matter what. Guess you want everyone to forget about how the first major wave of illegals after Biden took office came in wearing Biden T-Shirts.

Wake up and smell the coffee man! There's a good reason that Biden's viewed as one of if not the worst president ever. I listed many of those reasons above for you. Again .... you didn't answer the question - only attempted to deflect (because everyone knows what the answer SHOULD be).

And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 10:45 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 09:54 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  I didn't answer because you spout misinformation and right wing propaganda as if it were fact. I didn't care to correct you, because it was only going to turn the conversation into a back and forth about the merits of your points, which I just dont have the energy to get in to.

For example, in your list of points that you hold against Biden, you list wars that started despite who was in office, mention high prices of food and gas (from inflation) despite the inflation arising from poor Trump economic policies and COVID, a border situation that no President has managed to solve Trump and Bush included, and then devolve into right wing propaganda that i'm expected to assume has merit (spoiler alert, it doesn't), all while piling the blame onto Biden because it's convenient.

Honestly, I was on the verge of answering until I realized that you somehow fail to give credit for Biden's energy policies on Oil production while blaming him for high gas prices at the same time. You gave away the game there

Wow! If you actually believe what you just posted then that's a pretty sad assessment of your ability to rationalize what's going on in the world and why. For example, if you can't see (and be honest) about the enormous change that has occurred at the southern border regarding the millions of illegals coming into the country since Biden drastically changed things with border security then you're simply too far gone to acknowledge facts and will cover for the home team (Democrat) no matter what. Guess you want everyone to forget about how the first major wave of illegals after Biden took office came in wearing Biden T-Shirts.

Wake up and smell the coffee man! There's a good reason that Biden's viewed as one of if not the worst president ever. I listed many of those reasons above for you. Again .... you didn't answer the question - only attempted to deflect (because everyone knows what the answer SHOULD be).

And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 10:45 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Wow! If you actually believe what you just posted then that's a pretty sad assessment of your ability to rationalize what's going on in the world and why. For example, if you can't see (and be honest) about the enormous change that has occurred at the southern border regarding the millions of illegals coming into the country since Biden drastically changed things with border security then you're simply too far gone to acknowledge facts and will cover for the home team (Democrat) no matter what. Guess you want everyone to forget about how the first major wave of illegals after Biden took office came in wearing Biden T-Shirts.

Wake up and smell the coffee man! There's a good reason that Biden's viewed as one of if not the worst president ever. I listed many of those reasons above for you. Again .... you didn't answer the question - only attempted to deflect (because everyone knows what the answer SHOULD be).

And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".

We have a border. We should control who crosses that border. It's not as complicateed as you would like to believe.

(10-18-2023 01:22 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".

We have a border. We should control who crosses that border. It's not as complicateed as you would like to believe.

it really is that simple. The mental gymnastics on display in this thread are astounding.

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".

Your responses to the border is all smoke and mirrors - i.e., anything to shift the narrative away from the fact that Biden from his very first day in office purposefully made the border situation exponentially worse. Your stance here with your posts is that it's OK to open up the floodgates (and break existing immigration laws) simply because the Democrats didn't like it the way it was with a very small number of people able to sneak across undetected.

When this country is attacked by terrorist that illegally crossed the border under Biden just remember that it is people like you that didn't find anything wrong with that.

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:06 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  And when given the opportunity to do anything at all to fix the border problem, Republicans relied on a Bronze Age era solution that would have never passed and shuffled the buck to the Democrats to farm political points. Why should I care about your criticisms of the border, when the people you vote into office don't care to fix the border?

You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

There are existing immigration laws in place that aren't being enforced. NO excuse for any party to not enforce them no matter what they would like to have happen with immigration. Trump was doing all he could to enforce those laws and the Democrats were fighting against him and the rest of the Republicans every step of the way.

If either party wants to change those laws or add to them, that's another matter, but the two things should not be lumped into one. The system isn't broken just because one side is constantly breaking the existing laws related to it.

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:12 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  You do realize illegal border crossings went down during Trumps tenure don't you? You also should know which direction it's gone under Biden.

So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

I've always recognized that illegal immigration needs to be fixed. What I don't agree with is the villification of migrants based on their nationality, or just simply closing the border entirely.

How do you expect to have a flourishing supply chain across a closed border? Surely some of the illegal immigration is happening in line with the economics.

What do you expect to happen to the inevitable build up of migrants at our borders, with no place to go in and nowhere else to go? That's not just a humanitarian crisis, but will only worsen the human trafficking at the border over time.

What is America's responsibility to provide asylum to migrants fleeing dire situations? Did America cause those dire situations in the first place?

Why is the border such a huge point of emphasis, but the lion share of illegal immigration is done via visa overstays? You never hear the right complaining about that...


Most of these are rhetorical questions that simply showcase just how difficult the problem truly is, and why I continue to say fixing the problem at our borders requires complete immigration reform, and reform is impossible with one hand of the government tied behind it's back and the other slapping itself in the face.

(10-18-2023 01:50 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

I've always recognized that illegal immigration needs to be fixed. What I don't agree with is the villification of migrants based on their nationality, or just simply closing the border entirely.

How do you expect to have a flourishing supply chain across a closed border? Surely some of the illegal immigration is happening in line with the economics.

What do you expect to happen to the inevitable build up of migrants at our borders, with no place to go in and nowhere else to go? That's not just a humanitarian crisis, but will only worsen the human trafficking at the border over time.

What is America's responsibility to provide asylum to migrants fleeing dire situations? Did America cause those dire situations in the first place?

Why is the border such a huge point of emphasis, but the lion share of illegal immigration is done via visa overstays? You never hear the right complaining about that...


Most of these are rhetorical questions that simply showcase just how difficult the problem truly is, and why I continue to say fixing the problem at our borders requires complete immigration reform, and reform is impossible with one hand of the government tied behind it's back and the other slapping itself in the face.

Nobody if vilifying illegal immigrants based on anything other than them trying to enter the country illegally and then expecting to be cared for.

You can control who crosses the border without shutting it down. There are legal points of entry.

That's not our problem. In case you haven't noticed our country is trillions in debt and we simply cannot afford to take care of every downtrodden person in the world. Human trafficking is already out of control at the border.

Same answer as above. Those trying to enter legally should be vetted prior to being let in. Not afterwards.

At least with a visa overstay you have a record of who was let in and I would need some link to support that assertion given the number of illegal crossings currently taking place. If you find someone with an expired visa they should be shown the door just like any other person here illegally.

From 2019: Link

Quote:As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

I'm done talking immigration on a thread about domestic oil production.

(10-18-2023 02:31 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  From 2019: Link

Quote:As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

I'm done talking immigration on a thread about domestic oil production.

That's probably for the best but your link is from 2019. You would need something more current to compare the current levels of illegals crossing as the number is substantially higher now than it was back then.

(10-18-2023 02:49 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 02:31 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  From 2019: Link

Quote:As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

I'm done talking immigration on a thread about domestic oil production.

That's probably for the best but your link is from 2019. You would need something more current to compare the current levels of illegals crossing as the number is substantially higher now than it was back then.

He's done because he knows his talking points are full of holes and easily dismissed with the facts. The Biden Border Crisis was created intentionally by his administration, and it hasn't been corrected even though nearly everyone in the country (and world) knows it's a huge problem. They don't care about either the U.S. citizens or the illegals. They only want to make the illegal immigrants legal and voting eligible figuring that they will end up with millions of additional Democrat voters helping them win future elections.

(10-18-2023 01:50 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 12:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  So it got easier to manage the border under Trump and he still didn't manage to fix it?

It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

I've always recognized that illegal immigration needs to be fixed. What I don't agree with is the villification of migrants based on their nationality, or just simply closing the border entirely.

How do you expect to have a flourishing supply chain across a closed border? Surely some of the illegal immigration is happening in line with the economics.

What do you expect to happen to the inevitable build up of migrants at our borders, with no place to go in and nowhere else to go? That's not just a humanitarian crisis, but will only worsen the human trafficking at the border over time.

What is America's responsibility to provide asylum to migrants fleeing dire situations? Did America cause those dire situations in the first place?

Why is the border such a huge point of emphasis, but the lion share of illegal immigration is done via visa overstays? You never hear the right complaining about that...


Most of these are rhetorical questions that simply showcase just how difficult the problem truly is, and why I continue to say fixing the problem at our borders requires complete immigration reform, and reform is impossible with one hand of the government tied behind it's back and the other slapping itself in the face.

Although I disagree with many of these points (and you’ve said you don’t want to continue talking about this), I do appreciate the honesty and good intentions in your posts. Some good points along the way that I agree with, and some others I disagree with the premise. Actually one of your better posts I’ve seen in a while.

I know you hate engaging with many posters here but when you do, I enjoy reading. Just want the issue to be resolved long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(10-18-2023 06:59 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:50 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:04 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  It is hard to fix when every time you take action to stem the tide you have democrats screaming about a humanitarian crisis or does your selective memory not recall AOC weeping at the parking lot down there? Remember the "sanctuary cities"? Funny how democrats fought him every step when he was trying to address the border crisis and now are crying about having to deal with the repercussions of Biden reversing the policies and opening the floodgates.

It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

I've always recognized that illegal immigration needs to be fixed. What I don't agree with is the villification of migrants based on their nationality, or just simply closing the border entirely.

How do you expect to have a flourishing supply chain across a closed border? Surely some of the illegal immigration is happening in line with the economics.

What do you expect to happen to the inevitable build up of migrants at our borders, with no place to go in and nowhere else to go? That's not just a humanitarian crisis, but will only worsen the human trafficking at the border over time.

What is America's responsibility to provide asylum to migrants fleeing dire situations? Did America cause those dire situations in the first place?

Why is the border such a huge point of emphasis, but the lion share of illegal immigration is done via visa overstays? You never hear the right complaining about that...


Most of these are rhetorical questions that simply showcase just how difficult the problem truly is, and why I continue to say fixing the problem at our borders requires complete immigration reform, and reform is impossible with one hand of the government tied behind it's back and the other slapping itself in the face.

Although I disagree with many of these points (and you’ve said you don’t want to continue talking about this), I do appreciate the honesty and good intentions in your posts. Some good points along the way that I agree with, and some others I disagree with the premise. Actually one of your better posts I’ve seen in a while.

I know you hate engaging with many posters here but when you do, I enjoy reading. Just want the issue to be resolved long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my time working in restaurants, I worked with 0 border jumpers. I worked with a lot of people that overstayed their visas. Problem is the government doesn't look for that. Those people paid their taxes and everything was hunky dory until they ran into trouble with the police. We had a lot of cooks and busboys that never showed up for work again and it ended up being they had a run in with police and got deported.

Immigration reform starts with cracking down on the people employing illegals

(10-18-2023 08:24 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 06:59 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:50 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:32 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  It's almost like the border is a complex, complicated problem that requires broad, cooperative support from all sides of the government, not just the ones you agree with. What did you expect to happen when the only qualifications for a Republican candidate the past twenty years has been "make the government smaller" and "never work with democrats"? If the border is such a problem that needs solving, why are your complaints "those dems won't cooperate!" instead of, "how do we find a solution that everyone can accept?".


EDIT - I'm going to answer my own question, the last one, and say: It is because anyone not part of the Republican party is keenly aware where Republicans priorities lie. It doesn't win elections in Red Districts to take risks on things like actually fixing things. Fixing things can get you fired, so it's much easier to complain about the problem, rake in the media attention and campaign funding, and then sit back and do nothing. Republicans don't want solutions, they want power and job security. Certainly many Democrats do as well, but the Democratic base is different from the Republican base, and has less patience for the incompetent or the liars. I wish they had even less patience, if i'm being honest.

A fence at big entry points would help. You do need more than a simple wall.

Can we at least agree that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be fixed? The R's failed when they had control of House, Senate, and POTUS, but so have the Democrats two/three years. Where is the responsibility and accountability there?

I've always recognized that illegal immigration needs to be fixed. What I don't agree with is the villification of migrants based on their nationality, or just simply closing the border entirely.

How do you expect to have a flourishing supply chain across a closed border? Surely some of the illegal immigration is happening in line with the economics.

What do you expect to happen to the inevitable build up of migrants at our borders, with no place to go in and nowhere else to go? That's not just a humanitarian crisis, but will only worsen the human trafficking at the border over time.

What is America's responsibility to provide asylum to migrants fleeing dire situations? Did America cause those dire situations in the first place?

Why is the border such a huge point of emphasis, but the lion share of illegal immigration is done via visa overstays? You never hear the right complaining about that...


Most of these are rhetorical questions that simply showcase just how difficult the problem truly is, and why I continue to say fixing the problem at our borders requires complete immigration reform, and reform is impossible with one hand of the government tied behind it's back and the other slapping itself in the face.

Although I disagree with many of these points (and you’ve said you don’t want to continue talking about this), I do appreciate the honesty and good intentions in your posts. Some good points along the way that I agree with, and some others I disagree with the premise. Actually one of your better posts I’ve seen in a while.

I know you hate engaging with many posters here but when you do, I enjoy reading. Just want the issue to be resolved long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my time working in restaurants, I worked with 0 border jumpers. I worked with a lot of people that overstayed their visas. Problem is the government doesn't look for that. Those people paid their taxes and everything was hunky dory until they ran into trouble with the police. We had a lot of cooks and busboys that never showed up for work again and it ended up being they had a run in with police and got deported.

Immigration reform starts with cracking down on the people employing illegals

Agreed. The ones who cause trouble need to go. Simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We have immigration laws on the books that aren't enforced. Making new laws won't help anything. When Democrats say they want 'Immigration Reform", they mean make everyone that makes it here a citizen.

It’s like the $15 shirts that inched up to $75. Then the store marked them down to $60 and makes big deal out of it.

(10-18-2023 08:39 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  We have immigration laws on the books that aren't enforced. Making new laws won't help anything. When Democrats say they want 'Immigration Reform", they mean make everyone that makes it here a voter.

FIFY

(10-18-2023 09:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 08:39 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  We have immigration laws on the books that aren't enforced. Making new laws won't help anything. When Democrats say they want 'Immigration Reform", they mean make everyone that makes it here a voter.

FIFY

I think that what Eagle said about making them a "citizen" and what you said about making them a "voter" are essentially the same thing in that the Democrats in D.C. want them to become citizens so that they can legally vote (for Democrats).

It's a very crooked mindset and shows that the Democratic leadership doesn't give a hoot about citizens of this country that are negatively impacted by illegals, drugs, human trafficking, crime, increased terrorism threat etc. associated with the mass invasion taking place at our border. If they did it never would have happened to begin with. It's night and day difference to what it was when Trump left office.