David Teel has an interesting piece out on future football scheduling. Here are a few excepts:

Quote:The ACC is drilling down on a seven-year, no-divisions rotation of opponents that will sustain an undetermined number of annual rivalries while limiting the 14 current members to three games each in California, preferably not in consecutive seasons.

As since Florida State’s 1992 arrival, the conference schedule will be eight games. ...

Unlike the four-year model the ACC adopted for 2023-26 but had to scrap after expanding, every program in the seven-year rotation would not have the same number of annual rivals. For example, North Carolina could have three (N.C. State, Duke and Virginia), while Louisville might have none ...

But here’s the wild card: The mandate from ACC presidents that none of the current 14 programs play in California more than three times during the seven years gives Stanford and Cal only 42 of the 49 combined visits they need from the Eastern schools and SMU.

This means SMU will play Cal and Stanford annually, one at home, one on the road. So now we’re at 10 yearly pairings. ...

The pandemic 2020 season excepted, Stanford and Notre Dame have played annually since 1997. If the schools renew their series long-term — the Irish like to play each season in California, either at Stanford or USC — it seems unlikely those games would count toward their ACC obligations. ...

(10-12-2023 08:06 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  David Teel has an interesting piece out on future football scheduling. Here are a few excepts:

Quote:The ACC is drilling down on a seven-year, no-divisions rotation of opponents that will sustain an undetermined number of annual rivalries while limiting the 14 current members to three games each in California, preferably not in consecutive seasons.

As since Florida State’s 1992 arrival, the conference schedule will be eight games. ...

Unlike the four-year model the ACC adopted for 2023-26 but had to scrap after expanding, every program in the seven-year rotation would not have the same number of annual rivals. For example, North Carolina could have three (N.C. State, Duke and Virginia), while Louisville might have none ...

But here’s the wild card: The mandate from ACC presidents that none of the current 14 programs play in California more than three times during the seven years gives Stanford and Cal only 42 of the 49 combined visits they need from the Eastern schools and SMU.

This means SMU will play Cal and Stanford annually, one at home, one on the road. So now we’re at 10 yearly pairings. ...

The pandemic 2020 season excepted, Stanford and Notre Dame have played annually since 1997. If the schools renew their series long-term — the Irish like to play each season in California, either at Stanford or USC — it seems unlikely those games would count toward their ACC obligations. ...

It sounds like Teel is saying ACC is leaning towards Flex protect as Noone wants an annual game with a California team. What games might the ACC protect?

Battle of the Tech(Georgia Tech vs.Virginia Tech)
Georgia Tech vs. Duke
Boston College vs. Syracuse – first played in 1924.
Boston College vs. Virginia Tech – first played in 1993.
California vs. Stanford – Will become an ACC rivalry when the two schools join in 2024. First played in 1892, and most famous for the surreal ending to their 1982 matchup.
Clemson–Georgia Tech football rivalry – first played in 1898.
Clemson vs. Florida State – first played in 1970.
Commonwealth Cup (Virginia vs. Virginia Tech) – first played in 1895, the trophy was created in 1996.
Florida State vs Miami – first played in 1951.
Jefferson–Eppes Trophy (Virginia vs. Florida State) – first played in 1992, trophy was created in 1995.
Miami vs. Virginia Tech – first played in 1953.
North Carolina–Wake Forest rivalry – the oldest rivalry in the state of North Carolina, first played in 1888.
North Carolina–NC State football rivalry (NC State vs. North Carolina) – first played in 1894.
NC State vs. Wake Forest – the ACC's longest continuously played rivalry, since 1910, first played in 1895.
O'Rourke–McFadden Trophy (Clemson vs. Boston College) – first played in 1940, the trophy was first awarded in 2008.
Pittsburgh–Syracuse football rivalry – first played in 1916.
South's Oldest Rivalry (Virginia vs. North Carolina) – the ACC's and the South's oldest rivalry, first played in 1892.
Textile Bowl (Clemson vs. NC State) – First played in 1899.
Victory Bell (Duke–North Carolina) (North Carolina vs. Duke) – first played in 1888, the Victory Bell trophy was first awarded 1948.

(10-12-2023 09:13 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  It sounds like Teel is saying ACC is leaning towards Flex protect as Noone wants an annual game with a California team. What games might the ACC protect?

probably
California vs. Stanford
Clemson vs. Georgia Tech
Clemson vs. Florida State
Commonwealth Cup (Virginia vs. Virginia Tech)
Florida State vs Miami
North Carolina–NC State football rivalry
South's Oldest Rivalry (Virginia vs. North Carolina)
Victory Bell (North Carolina vs. Duke)

maybe
Georgia Tech vs. Duke
Boston College vs. Syracuse
North Carolina vs. Wake Forest rivalry
NC State vs. Wake Forest
Pittsburgh–Syracuse football rivalry

doubtful
Battle of the Tech(Georgia Tech vs.Virginia Tech)
Boston College vs. Virginia Tech – first played in 1993.
Jefferson–Eppes Trophy (Virginia vs. Florida State)
Miami vs. Virginia Tech
O'Rourke–McFadden Trophy (Clemson vs. Boston College)
Textile Bowl (Clemson vs. NC State)

JMO

Very very interesting. I suppose the flex product model would work well for the ACC. The most interesting part is that the Stanford vs ND game won’t count against the current 5 game ACC deal, this tells me that the series will renewed and ND/Stanford will have a separate deal (possibly NBC) for this game.

(10-12-2023 09:13 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 08:06 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  David Teel has an interesting piece out on future football scheduling. Here are a few excepts:

Quote:The ACC is drilling down on a seven-year, no-divisions rotation of opponents that will sustain an undetermined number of annual rivalries while limiting the 14 current members to three games each in California, preferably not in consecutive seasons.

As since Florida State’s 1992 arrival, the conference schedule will be eight games. ...

Unlike the four-year model the ACC adopted for 2023-26 but had to scrap after expanding, every program in the seven-year rotation would not have the same number of annual rivals. For example, North Carolina could have three (N.C. State, Duke and Virginia), while Louisville might have none ...

But here’s the wild card: The mandate from ACC presidents that none of the current 14 programs play in California more than three times during the seven years gives Stanford and Cal only 42 of the 49 combined visits they need from the Eastern schools and SMU.

This means SMU will play Cal and Stanford annually, one at home, one on the road. So now we’re at 10 yearly pairings. ...

The pandemic 2020 season excepted, Stanford and Notre Dame have played annually since 1997. If the schools renew their series long-term — the Irish like to play each season in California, either at Stanford or USC — it seems unlikely those games would count toward their ACC obligations. ...

It sounds like Teel is saying ACC is leaning towards Flex protect as Noone wants an annual game with a California team. What games might the ACC protect?

Battle of the Tech(Georgia Tech vs.Virginia Tech)
Georgia Tech vs. Duke
Boston College vs. Syracuse – first played in 1924.
Boston College vs. Virginia Tech – first played in 1993.
California vs. Stanford – Will become an ACC rivalry when the two schools join in 2024. First played in 1892, and most famous for the surreal ending to their 1982 matchup.
Clemson–Georgia Tech football rivalry – first played in 1898.
Clemson vs. Florida State – first played in 1970.
Commonwealth Cup (Virginia vs. Virginia Tech) – first played in 1895, the trophy was created in 1996.
Florida State vs Miami – first played in 1951.
Jefferson–Eppes Trophy (Virginia vs. Florida State) – first played in 1992, trophy was created in 1995.
Miami vs. Virginia Tech – first played in 1953.
North Carolina–Wake Forest rivalry – the oldest rivalry in the state of North Carolina, first played in 1888.
North Carolina–NC State football rivalry (NC State vs. North Carolina) – first played in 1894.
NC State vs. Wake Forest – the ACC's longest continuously played rivalry, since 1910, first played in 1895.
O'Rourke–McFadden Trophy (Clemson vs. Boston College) – first played in 1940, the trophy was first awarded in 2008.
Pittsburgh–Syracuse football rivalry – first played in 1916.
South's Oldest Rivalry (Virginia vs. North Carolina) – the ACC's and the South's oldest rivalry, first played in 1892.
Textile Bowl (Clemson vs. NC State) – First played in 1899.
Victory Bell (Duke–North Carolina) (North Carolina vs. Duke) – first played in 1888, the Victory Bell trophy was first awarded 1948.

Every 7 years, Calistan need 56 home games between them. Seven of those are each other playing home/away. Seven more can be SMU playing both schools every year, one at home and one away. If 14 legacy members play at one of the California schools 3 times every 7 years, that's 42 more games. 42+7+7 = 56. So, no legacy school has to be an annual rival to a California team.

Games you can bet an appendage upon:

Cal-Stanford
Cal-SMU
SMU-Stanford
UNC-NC State
UVa-UNC
UNC-Duke
UVa-VT
Clemson-GT
FSU-Miami
Syracuse-Pitt
Syracuse-BC

Games already not protected:

Duke-GT
WF-NC State
UNC-GT

Games that might be protected and may not:

Clemson-FSU
Clemson-NC State

(10-12-2023 12:21 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Games you can bet an appendage upon:

Cal-Stanford
Cal-SMU
SMU-Stanford
UNC-NC State
UVa-UNC
UNC-Duke
UVa-VT
Clemson-GT
FSU-Miami
Syracuse-Pitt
Syracuse-BC

Games already not protected:

Duke-GT
WF-NC State
UNC-GT

Games that might be protected and may not:

Clemson-FSU
Clemson-NC State

In what universe is Clemson-FSU not protected?

(10-12-2023 01:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 12:21 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Games you can bet an appendage upon:

Cal-Stanford
Cal-SMU
SMU-Stanford
UNC-NC State
UVa-UNC
UNC-Duke
UVa-VT
Clemson-GT
FSU-Miami
Syracuse-Pitt
Syracuse-BC

Games already not protected:

Duke-GT
WF-NC State
UNC-GT

Games that might be protected and may not:

Clemson-FSU
Clemson-NC State

In what universe is Clemson-FSU not protected?

In the Universe that it's a recent thing.

Going unprotected does not prevent you from meeting say 3 of 4 years or 6 of 7 or 7 of 10.

It was NC State and WF that used to play FSU back in the day, not Clemson.

These are FSU's historic "rivals" and the number of games played:

UM 67 games
NC State 42 games
WF 40 games
VT 38 games
Clemson 36 games

They do not need to meet in the regular season every year to satisfy something historic.

Based on number of games played this is the list of historic ACC rivalry games going forward:

1. UNC/UVa 127 games
2. NC State/WF and Cal/Stanford 116 games
4. UNC/NC State 112 games
5. UNC/Wake Forest 110 games
6. Clemson/NC State, GT/Duke 90 games
8. Clemson/WF 89 games
9. Clemson/GT 87 games
10. NC State/Duke 82 games
11. Pitt/Syracuse 77 games


In addition to these league games, if the ACC considers and obligation to history these additional games matter and need to be supported:

Clemson/South Carolina 119 games
GT/UGa 116 games
Stanford/USC 110 games
Pitt/WVa 105 games
Pitt/PSU 100 games
GT/Auburn 91 games
Pitt/ND 72 games
Clemson/Georgia 65 games

Stanford and Cal games with USC, UCLA, Oregon, OSU, and Washington - all in at least the high 80's. The old PAC 8.

SMU games with Texas, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, Rice, and TAMU - the old SW Conference.

In the historical context of major college football going back to the 19th Century, Miami and FSU only have each other as historic rivals and that rivalry is half the length of others. Because of wandering between conferences or being somewhat isolated, Louisville, and BC have no historic rivals. VT only has UVa.

Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

If I am making the schedule when it comes to Clemson and FSU, they meet in the regular season 6 of 9 years. 2 on, one off. You are hoping to catch them undefeated playing for the ACC Title every third year. In that every third year opening is when you stick them with ND or a trip to the West Coast. They still have Florida and South Carolina to keep up the booster club ticket sales despite not being played in the regular season every third year.

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Based on number of games played this is the list of historic ACC rivalry games going forward:

1. UNC/UVa 127 games
2. NC State/WF and Cal/Stanford 116 games
4. UNC/NC State 112 games
5. UNC/Wake Forest 110 games
6. Clemson/NC State, GT/Duke 90 games
8. Clemson/WF 89 games
9. Clemson/GT 87 games
10. NC State/Duke 82 games
11. Pitt/Syracuse 77 games


In addition to these league games, if the ACC considers and obligation to history these additional games matter and need to be supported:

Clemson/South Carolina 119 games
GT/UGa 116 games
Stanford/USC 110 games
Pitt/WVa 105 games
Pitt/PSU 100 games
GT/Auburn 91 games
Pitt/ND 72 games
Clemson/Georgia 65 games

Stanford and Cal games with USC, UCLA, Oregon, OSU, and Washington - all in at least the high 80's. The old PAC 8.

SMU games with Texas, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, Rice, and TAMU - the old SW Conference.

In the historical context of major college football going back to the 19th Century, Miami and FSU only have each other as historic rivals and that rivalry is half the length of others. Because of wandering between conferences or being somewhat isolated, Louisville, and BC have no historic rivals. VT only has UVa.

Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

Duke and UNC have played 109 times.

(10-12-2023 03:05 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  If I am making the schedule when it comes to Clemson and FSU, they meet in the regular season 6 of 9 years. 2 on, one off. You are hoping to catch them undefeated playing for the ACC Title every third year. In that every third year opening is when you stick them with ND or a trip to the West Coast. They still have Florida and South Carolina to keep up the booster club ticket sales despite not being played in the regular season every third year.

I’m fine with this and was thinking it myself especially if FSU can get GT could also be worked in FSUs schedule 6 of 9 years.

So does this mean that the 3 permanent rivals that were assigned to us this season are going away entirely next year?

Seems to me that's what I'm hearing. Originally I thought they'd just add a 4th rival and go 4:4-4-4 but that doesn't seem to be the case as no one wants to be stuck with a California rival.

(10-12-2023 03:16 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Based on number of games played this is the list of historic ACC rivalry games going forward:

1. UNC/UVa 127 games
2. NC State/WF and Cal/Stanford 116 games
4. UNC/NC State 112 games
5. UNC/Wake Forest 110 games
6. Clemson/NC State, GT/Duke 90 games
8. Clemson/WF 89 games
9. Clemson/GT 87 games
10. NC State/Duke 82 games
11. Pitt/Syracuse 77 games


In addition to these league games, if the ACC considers and obligation to history these additional games matter and need to be supported:

Clemson/South Carolina 119 games
GT/UGa 116 games
Stanford/USC 110 games
Pitt/WVa 105 games
Pitt/PSU 100 games
GT/Auburn 91 games
Pitt/ND 72 games
Clemson/Georgia 65 games

Stanford and Cal games with USC, UCLA, Oregon, OSU, and Washington - all in at least the high 80's. The old PAC 8.

SMU games with Texas, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, Rice, and TAMU - the old SW Conference.

In the historical context of major college football going back to the 19th Century, Miami and FSU only have each other as historic rivals and that rivalry is half the length of others. Because of wandering between conferences or being somewhat isolated, Louisville, and BC have no historic rivals. VT only has UVa.

Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

Duke and UNC have played 109 times.

Is that counting the forfeit? IIRC they generate a different number than you and count the wins they had to vacate.

(10-12-2023 03:54 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  So does this mean that the 3 permanent rivals that were assigned to us this season are going away entirely next year?

Seems to me that's what I'm hearing. Originally I thought they'd just add a 4th rival and go 4:4-4-4 but that doesn't seem to be the case as no one wants to be stuck with a California rival.

Technically yes, practically probably not.

If you are playing a team 6 of 7 years is that an annual rival or not? IDK - looks like one.

(10-12-2023 02:26 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 01:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 12:21 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Games you can bet an appendage upon:

Cal-Stanford
Cal-SMU
SMU-Stanford
UNC-NC State
UVa-UNC
UNC-Duke
UVa-VT
Clemson-GT
FSU-Miami
Syracuse-Pitt
Syracuse-BC

Games already not protected:

Duke-GT
WF-NC State
UNC-GT

Games that might be protected and may not:

Clemson-FSU
Clemson-NC State

In what universe is Clemson-FSU not protected?

In the Universe that it's a recent thing.

Going unprotected does not prevent you from meeting say 3 of 4 years or 6 of 7 or 7 of 10.

It was NC State and WF that used to play FSU back in the day, not Clemson.

These are FSU's historic "rivals" and the number of games played:

UM 67 games
NC State 42 games
WF 40 games
VT 38 games
Clemson 36 games

They do not need to meet in the regular season every year to satisfy something historic.

If history was the most important thing, FSU should play VT since that was one of their most-played games prior to joining the ACC. Prior to 1991, the numbers are:
Florida 33 games
Miami 32 games
Va Tech 28 games

However, history is NOT the most important thing - the present is, and at present FSU's 3 biggest rivals are Florida, Miami, and Clemson (and Clemson's are S Carolina, FSU, and Ga Tech).

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

100% correct! UNC and Duke are NOT natural rivals to VT, but WF and NC State are.

(10-12-2023 05:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

100% correct! UNC and Duke are NOT natural rivals to VT, but WF and NC State are.

I don't know..... Maybe beating Wake and NCSU would be as enjoyable as beating UNC and Duke but I doubt it. Especially not in basketball. Not that we have a ton of basketball wins vs. UNC and Duke.

(10-12-2023 03:16 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Based on number of games played this is the list of historic ACC rivalry games going forward:

1. UNC/UVa 127 games
2. NC State/WF and Cal/Stanford 116 games
4. UNC/NC State 112 games
5. UNC/Wake Forest 110 games
6. Clemson/NC State, GT/Duke 90 games
8. Clemson/WF 89 games
9. Clemson/GT 87 games
10. NC State/Duke 82 games
11. Pitt/Syracuse 77 games


In addition to these league games, if the ACC considers and obligation to history these additional games matter and need to be supported:

Clemson/South Carolina 119 games
GT/UGa 116 games
Stanford/USC 110 games
Pitt/WVa 105 games
Pitt/PSU 100 games
GT/Auburn 91 games
Pitt/ND 72 games
Clemson/Georgia 65 games

Stanford and Cal games with USC, UCLA, Oregon, OSU, and Washington - all in at least the high 80's. The old PAC 8.

SMU games with Texas, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, Rice, and TAMU - the old SW Conference.

In the historical context of major college football going back to the 19th Century, Miami and FSU only have each other as historic rivals and that rivalry is half the length of others. Because of wandering between conferences or being somewhat isolated, Louisville, and BC have no historic rivals. VT only has UVa.

Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

Duke and UNC have played 109 times.

UVa/VT 98 games

FSU/Clemson is essential for revenues and media…the ACC and ESPN need the game played annually.

(10-12-2023 08:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 05:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-12-2023 02:43 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Now from a practical standpoint, VT and WF, and VT and NC State should have been rivals but the last 20 years stilted that.

100% correct! UNC and Duke are NOT natural rivals to VT, but WF and NC State are.

I don't know..... Maybe beating Wake and NCSU would be as enjoyable as beating UNC and Duke but I doubt it. Especially not in basketball. Not that we have a ton of basketball wins vs. UNC and Duke.

Everybody plays everyone in basketball.