Hard to watch the updates. I feel for the innocents on both sides.

I'm pretty isolationist right now when it comes to US involvement in this situation. That said, I have a lot to learn about all the moving parts of what's going on over there these days.

WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

Me either although it's hard to send Hamas packing to hell without taking out thousands of innocent Palestinians. You then create a larger section of the Muslim world that hates America (and everything that comes with that...).

Just a reminder that Hamas is a military AND political organization. While the West Bank has sections controlled by Fatah, Gaza is controlled by Hamas since the 2006 elections. Hamas is the group that Palestinians want to advance their initiatives, by far (https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-...da08fd87). Just like Israelis decided to re-elect a corrupt PM whose inactions helped make this attack possible, Palestinians are also reaping what they have sown.

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

I think it is notable that nobody tried this kind of thing when Trump was in. Now...everybody feels free to move on others.

(10-10-2023 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

Do something? What do you think he would do? What do you think Biden should do right now?

(10-10-2023 11:11 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

Me either although it's hard to send Hamas packing to hell without taking out thousands of innocent Palestinians. You then create a larger section of the Muslim world that hates America (and everything that comes with that...).

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

(10-10-2023 01:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

Do something? What do you think he would do? What do you think Biden should do right now?

Send Bloomgren to Gaza since we got embarrassed on Salute to Service day. Nice little bye week vacation.

(10-10-2023 03:23 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

Do something? What do you think he would do? What do you think Biden should do right now?

Send Bloomgren to Gaza since we got embarrassed on Salute to Service day. Nice little bye week vacation.

Lol.... nice one...

(10-10-2023 03:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 11:11 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

Me either although it's hard to send Hamas packing to hell without taking out thousands of innocent Palestinians. You then create a larger section of the Muslim world that hates America (and everything that comes with that...).

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

Ugh… nightmare. So sorry to hear that.

I completely understand that taking out Hamas will necessarily involve taking out a bunch of innocents. Kind of a play stupid games and win stupid prizes when it comes to Hamas. But I would rather America not be seen as being directly involved with that situation if it all possible. As always when it comes to this region, there are very few good answers here.

(10-10-2023 01:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

Do something? What do you think he would do? What do you think Biden should do right now?

I don't know what Trump would do, but you can bet it would be more than making a speech about how it is time to come together to grieve. The ineffectuality of this figurehead president is a big factor in why our enemies are are choosing to move NOW and not earlier and not later. maybe he can send more money to Iran along with his sincere apologies.

(10-10-2023 06:16 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:47 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  WW III. And it comes with us without leadership.

Yep... neither Biden or Trump is equipped to handle this mess.

If Trump were in office, he would do something.

Do something? What do you think he would do? What do you think Biden should do right now?

I don't know what Trump would do, but you can bet it would be more than making a speech about how it is time to come together to grieve. The ineffectuality of this figurehead president is a big factor in why our enemies are are choosing to move NOW and not earlier and not later. maybe he can send more money to Iran along with his sincere apologies.

You are asking the president do something 3 days into this situation.
To me, the odds are pretty high that Trump’s decisions in this situation would be net-negative for the United States. I doubt you would have consensus on what the United States should do or you two ask a room full of experts. It is, therefore silly to me to demand immediate action from the United States. Again, I don’t think there are any great answers here.

Personally, I would rather the United States do nothing than rush to do the wrong thing early on in this war.

(10-10-2023 03:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

Quote: That is all that is it! pic.twitter.com/7DhTIeJ0yl
— BLMChicago (@BLMChi) October 10, 2023

you're speaking about those "peaceful" Izzys that Lefty groups like BLM support?

When Biden kowtowed his way through the abandonment of Afghanistan, I was worried some of the world's baddies would notice and feel empowered to push us. Since that debacle, we have had Russia invading Ukraine and Hamas attacking Israel, and China pushing the envelope in SE Asia. I don't know who is the power behind the throne in the WH, but I bet those nations do, and they show no respect for them. Would not surprise me at all to see China go after Taiwan.

The Biden WH reminds me of the poker player who always folds to a re-raise.

(10-10-2023 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 03:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

Quote: That is all that is it! pic.twitter.com/7DhTIeJ0yl
— BLMChicago (@BLMChi) October 10, 2023

you're speaking about those "peaceful" Izzys that Lefty groups like BLM support?

I happen to know a humongous amount of 'lefties' that are aghast at the Hamas barbarism. Most of the ones I know, in fact.

But dont let intrude into your kneejerk screed abut lefties.

Nor do I delude myself that all "izzys" support the tactics of Hamas.

But leave it to a pinhead like you to spout that implied generalized garbage about "Izzys", let alone use that term that is in quotes.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that my pretty much absolute support for the 1st Amendment actually covers that **** you just typed.

(10-10-2023 09:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 03:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

Quote: That is all that is it! pic.twitter.com/7DhTIeJ0yl
— BLMChicago (@BLMChi) October 10, 2023

you're speaking about those "peaceful" Izzys that Lefty groups like BLM support?

I happen to know a humongous amount of 'lefties' that are aghast at the Hamas barbarism. Most of the ones I know, in fact.

But dont let intrude into your kneejerk screed abut lefties.

Nor do I delude myself that all "izzys" support the tactics of Hamas.

But leave it to a pinhead like you to spout that implied generalized garbage about "Izzys", let alone use that term that is in quotes.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that my pretty much absolute support for the 1st Amendment actually covers that **** you just typed.

I am sure there are many people who are aghast at the Hamas tactics but who support the cause.

Same thing happened in 1930's Germany, I believe.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-go-...r-2nd-day/

(10-10-2023 09:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  When Biden kowtowed his way through the abandonment of Afghanistan, I was worried some of the world's baddies would notice and feel empowered to push us. Since that debacle, we have had Russia invading Ukraine and Hamas attacking Israel, and China pushing the envelope in SE Asia. I don't know who is the power behind the throne in the WH, but I bet those nations do, and they show no respect for them. Would not surprise me at all to see China go after Taiwan.

The Biden WH reminds me of the poker player who always folds to a re-raise.

I agree on Afghanistan, and for the one that you left off: he has played astoundingly soft with Iran.

Not so much with the Russian "special offensive action" in Ukraine (is that the correct special Russian term for the invasion of Ukraine (too lazy to look it up right now) ?), since the Repubs are the ones leading the 'lets lay down like patsies' in that one.

I may not agree with you wholly for Biden full fault in Ukraine on that aspect -- and would make a case that the current Repubs are doing a fine dandy job of adding to 'decline in respect' in that arena.

(10-10-2023 09:34 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 09:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 08:37 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 03:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:34 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I feel for the civilians on both sides, both ghe Israelis who are targeted by terrorists and Palestinians who are caught in ghe response targeting ghe terrorists using them as shields.

Fk Hamas.

And if we do render aid to the destruction of Hamas, the US should do do as circumspectly as possible.

Aiding Israel to root out Hamas and send them packing to hell is something I dont have an issue with.

The alternative is to let a group of people that act to capture and decapitate families (including babies), wander into a concert and kill dozens, perhaps rape and kill some, skate by.

It sucked what the German people had to endure when the Red Army rolled in because of Hitler --- but that is on them in my opinion. It sucked that the populace of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki had to suffer because of the shitbirds that they kept in power. But I am not crying for the 60k dead in the Tokyo firebombing raid, nor for the inhabitants of the latter two cities that the US vaporized.

It would be great to find a solution that would allow the death by very horrible means to the vast, vast, vast majority of Hamas and spare the folks in Gaza City. If you can tell me what that is, Im all ears.

The animals behind this attack need to be put down, period.

If the attack specifically targeted Israeli military, I wouldnt be a quarter this enraged. The attack targeted the populace -- families, babies. Just barbaric.

As I said earlier -- Fk Hamas. Fk them all.

Edited to add: Im a little raw. I found out last night that a friend from Silicon Valley was killed, along with his 10 year girl and his 17 year old girl. Not by a bomb, but up close and individually from a marauding band there.

Quote: That is all that is it! pic.twitter.com/7DhTIeJ0yl
— BLMChicago (@BLMChi) October 10, 2023

you're speaking about those "peaceful" Izzys that Lefty groups like BLM support?

I happen to know a humongous amount of 'lefties' that are aghast at the Hamas barbarism. Most of the ones I know, in fact.

But dont let intrude into your kneejerk screed abut lefties.

Nor do I delude myself that all "izzys" support the tactics of Hamas.

But leave it to a pinhead like you to spout that implied generalized garbage about "Izzys", let alone use that term that is in quotes.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that my pretty much absolute support for the 1st Amendment actually covers that **** you just typed.

I am sure there are many people who are aghast at the Hamas tactics but who support the cause.

Same thing happened in 1930's Germany, I believe.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-go-...r-2nd-day/

Support for a Palestinian 'cause' (whatever that may be) is a far cry from support of butchering families and babies.

Or in your view, are they directly equivalent?

Enough of an equivalence to roll down to something close to Godwin's Law in order to try and make a point?

I dont find someone who 'supports the cause of palestine' to be anywhere near the equivalent of justifying the murder of babies and families in this instance.