(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:51 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  McCarthy cut a deal with the devil for some office spaces (Pelosi, Hoyer) and thought he could renege on a deal with his own party.

He got burned. He should be humbled and humiliated for both lying and double dealing. But ... politician.

Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

AC, you are normally way more rational than this.

(10-10-2023 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:51 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  McCarthy cut a deal with the devil for some office spaces (Pelosi, Hoyer) and thought he could renege on a deal with his own party.

He got burned. He should be humbled and humiliated for both lying and double dealing. But ... politician.

Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

I guess Gaetz negotiated a better deal with the Dems than McCarthy did... What's that get us now?

(10-10-2023 02:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:51 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  McCarthy cut a deal with the devil for some office spaces (Pelosi, Hoyer) and thought he could renege on a deal with his own party.

He got burned. He should be humbled and humiliated for both lying and double dealing. But ... politician.

Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

I guess Gaetz negotiated a better deal with the Dems than McCarthy did... What's that get us now?

Laughed at and likely a milk toast bi-partisan consensus speaker. Might even get us a lost house majority on the down ballot of a presidential election for running a guy that half of the country despises no matter what.

(10-10-2023 02:45 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

I guess Gaetz negotiated a better deal with the Dems than McCarthy did... What's that get us now?

Laughed at and likely a milk toast bi-partisan consensus speaker. Might even get us a lost house majority on the down ballot of a presidential election for running a guy that half of the country despises no matter what.

So, lets make sure we understand your position; Even though we are running on a platform of controlling spending and doing things under normal order in the house, when the speaker doesnt do that and cuts sweetheart deals with Pelosi to keep him in power, and sends the house on a 6 week vacation just 8 weeks before spending bills are due and then demands continuing resolutions because "we dont have time to cut deals", then we have to be ok with that or else we will lose elections.

The reason you lose elections is because the dumbcucks you put in power dont do what the voters want.

(10-10-2023 02:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 10:51 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  McCarthy cut a deal with the devil for some office spaces (Pelosi, Hoyer) and thought he could renege on a deal with his own party.

He got burned. He should be humbled and humiliated for both lying and double dealing. But ... politician.

Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

I guess Gaetz negotiated a better deal with the Dems than McCarthy did... What's that get us now?

Gaetz cut no deal with Ds.
McC was double dealing (Ds and Gaetz).

McC got "the deal" as negotiated from Gaetz.

McC got backstabbed by the Ds. Some "leader".

My position is we look like fools. We gave the DNC talking points for every contested congressional seat, and we are going to end up with a powerless, even more limp wristed speaker. Not that hard to figure out.

(10-10-2023 02:53 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:26 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 01:13 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Matt Gaetz cut a deal to get the Dems to vote McCarthy out... Somehow you think Matt Gaetz is a savior...

Gaetz cut a (as in one) deal with McCarthy to do a number of things and to get a "kill switch" on the Speaker. McCarthy reneged on the deal with Gaetz; McCarthy thought Gaetz would never dare hold him to the deal or use the "kill switch". Whups.

Apparently McCarthy didnt worry about Gaetz's kill switch because he made a deal with Pelosi where Gaetz would never have the votes to remove him.


oopsie

#BringItOn!

I guess Gaetz negotiated a better deal with the Dems than McCarthy did... What's that get us now?

Gaetz cut no deal with Ds.
McC was double dealing (Ds and Gaetz).

McC got "the deal" as negotiated from Gaetz.

McC got backstabbed by the Ds. Some "leader".

Sure... Believe that if you want to.

Why would Gaetz need to cut a deal with the Ds?
Any partisan would vote for an ouster of the other side's Speaker.

Are you claiming Gaetz cut a deal with Pelosi to subvert McCarthy?
Again, any partisan would vote for an ouster of the other side's Speaker, especially Pelosi. She was never going to help the person who got "her" office, gavel, and chair. In the trade, McC got what you call "hornswaggled" by Ice Cream Nancy.

(10-10-2023 02:11 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  AC, you are normally way more rational than this.

I feel like Im being pragmatic. I never wanted McCarthy to start with. He's now been removed because he stubbornly reneged on deal with a group of Republicans responsible for getting him over the top (these members frankly were willing to compromise with other members on a Speaker they didnt trust if they received a handful of quite reasonable promises). The Speaker I never wanted---failed to live up to his promises and got removed.

I dont think Im being irrational when I say, I think we are better off moving on to another Republican Speaker at this point. To his credit, McCarthy has indicated he will refuse any nomination. That will be helpful in allowing the Republicans to move on and coalesce around another Republican House member. Just my opinion, but the problem with the Republicans is they do not do a good job of catering to their various coalitions. You dont see the Democrats dumping all over their various coalitions----instead they zealously defend them and fight for their issues. Republicans seem to love dumping on a huge coalition that provides over half their votes. If we lose in 2024---its more likely that will be why we lose---not because we dumped a Speaker. That said---I really do believe the House Republicans will end up coming out of this determined to keep the public divisions to a minimum.

You don't like McArthy. And that's fine. There was a reason or two he got passed up after Boehner retired. We likely aren't going to get Jordan. All the democrats and enough republicans will oppose him. Not going to get anyone more conservative than McCarthy. His right hand man? Well that would seem pretty odd since he was in on everything you don't like about McCarthy. The person we do get is doomed to fail miserably since nobody will head his or her bark.

Speaking of barking, as the old saying goes, what does the dog plan to do when it actually catches the car? Better have a plan. We don't appear to have one. Likely going to need to go to democrat leadership with their hat in their hand to get enough support. Lovely. Thus, how generationally stupid I see this move by Eddie Munster. No plan.

We are better off with another speaker. I don't think many are saying we aren't. There is no more conservative option that will get enough votes to become speaker. While more liberal options are more likely to get votes and become speaker as in the likely outcome of this is getting a more liberal speaker than a conservative one. Since it's such a paper thin margin majority.

This is the same paper thin margin that Gaetz used to side with the dems to remove McCarthy. Playing with fire and hoping it doesn't burn you. Though in this case I don't think there was hope. I just don't think there was any thinking involved about possible bad outcomes.

Yet people will try to make this about whether McCarthy was some amazing speaker or not rather than the issue above.

All of the other more conservative speaker possibility have already had too many republicans refuse to support them. These are people in deep blue districts that are not worried about conservative backlash so they won't be pressured and are also very centrist to begin with.

Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come.

"Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come."

This will NEVER happen. You might as well nominate Tliab or whatever her name is or one of the gang of four. She's in that category and even McCarthy is a better choice, which isn't saying much.

(10-10-2023 06:12 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  "Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come."

This will NEVER happen. You might as well nominate Tliab or whatever her name is or one of the gang of four. She's in that category and even McCarthy is a better choice, which isn't saying much.

Exactly. Right now Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise are the leading candidates (not anybody even remotely along the lines of the hysterical fear mongering that we will get Jeffries/Sessions/Cheney types). I'd be quite pleased with Jordan. Scalise would probably be similar to McCarthy---but more likely to keep any promises to the more conservative members after the McCarthy fiasco. I fully expect that the House Republicans will hash out a winner behind closed doors in order to avoid another embarrassing 15 round floor fight this time around. As Ive said before----I think we are seeing some over reaction to this event. In the end, I think the Republican House will spend a few days reorganizing and then quickly get back to work.

Jordan would be great. So would winning power ball. Likely similar odds of happening.

(10-10-2023 06:12 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  "Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come."

This will NEVER happen. You might as well nominate Tliab or whatever her name is or one of the gang of four. She's in that category and even McCarthy is a better choice, which isn't saying much.

It takes just 5 republicans siding with the dems to make Liz Cheney speaker. There are 5 republicans in favor of her. Might be less for Sessions as I don't think any of the republicans are saying they are willing to vote for him right now.

On the flip side there are over a dozen saying they won't vote for Jordan or Scelise. They are also in districts that will be unable to pressure them into voting for either of those 2 due to them being in deep blue districts and their promise to vote as moderates.

(10-10-2023 06:48 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 06:12 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  "Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come."

This will NEVER happen. You might as well nominate Tliab or whatever her name is or one of the gang of four. She's in that category and even McCarthy is a better choice, which isn't saying much.

It takes just 5 republicans siding with the dems to make Liz Cheney speaker. There are 5 republicans in favor of her. Might be less for Sessions as I don't think any of the republicans are saying they are willing to vote for him right now.

On the flip side there are over a dozen saying they won't vote for Jordan or Scelise. They are also in districts that will be unable to pressure them into voting for either of those 2 due to them being in deep blue districts and their promise to vote as moderates. Plenty of others available if those two are not viable.

Is is possible? Sure. Is it going to happen? No. Frankly I cant see the AOC's and Tlaib's of the world voting for any Republican Speaker. Its likely to end up being Jordan or Scalise. Jordan had the second highest vote total back when McCarthy originally became minority leader. Its not like he would be coming out of nowhere.

(10-10-2023 07:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 06:48 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(10-10-2023 06:12 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  "Liz Cheney, Sessions or other bad outcomes here we come."

This will NEVER happen. You might as well nominate Tliab or whatever her name is or one of the gang of four. She's in that category and even McCarthy is a better choice, which isn't saying much.

It takes just 5 republicans siding with the dems to make Liz Cheney speaker. There are 5 republicans in favor of her. Might be less for Sessions as I don't think any of the republicans are saying they are willing to vote for him right now.

On the flip side there are over a dozen saying they won't vote for Jordan or Scelise. They are also in districts that will be unable to pressure them into voting for either of those 2 due to them being in deep blue districts and their promise to vote as moderates. Plenty of others available if those two are not viable.

Is is possible? Sure. Is it going to happen? No. Frankly I cant see the AOC's and Tlaib's of the world voting for any Republican Speaker. Its likely to end up being Jordan or Scalise. Jordan had the second highest vote total back when McCarthy originally became minority leader. Its not like he would be coming out of nowhere.

It happens in Texas with their far left. They vote lock step in order to get someone more moderate. Their far left socialist candidates are even willing to vote with the moderate republicans on someone fairly far right. Just so they won't get someone really far right.

Why? Because they know that getting something is better than nothing. The Democrats are just so much better at that. They know Liz Cheney will bring nothing but Trump trials to congress.

If republicans in Texas can't group to get someone together you think the fools in DC can?

Yeah, this is going to go smoothly...

Quote:Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.) left the candidate forum not excited about either declared candidate, House Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.) or House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan (R-Ohio).

“I'm not thrilled with either candidate. And I don't know that they are the only candidates who are going to arise. I think that we will have other candidates that step forward if this becomes a mess tomorrow,” he said.

He later added, “I think at three or four in the afternoon, if you don't see white smoke, we've got a mess.”

Buck was one of the eight Republicans who voted to oust former Speaker Kevin McCarthy

No thrills Buck

She's so unemployed in 13 months. Idiot.