The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

They've apparently had the most significant change to their format since it started. They're putting much more weight on how well a school does at attracting lower income and first gen college students and how well it does at keeping them enrolled and graduating them. Looks like Miami dropped a whole 28 spots, so being a finishing school for affluent kids from Chicago just ain't that valued.

Miami 133
UC 142

But considering that there are 9 schools tied at 133 with UC right behind them, the schools are in a virtual tie. With UC's momentum in enrollment and selectivity and its clear advantage in some of the new metrics, I honestly think we pass them next year.

The Wall Street Journal had UC ranked at 450 out of 500, using many of the same”revised” metrics. About the same ranking as NKU and behind Louisville. It is embarrassing. UC seems to be emphasizing quantity over quality.

(09-19-2023 04:00 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  They've apparently had the most significant change to their format since it started. They're putting much more weight on how well a school does at attracting lower income and first gen college students and how well it does at keeping them enrolled and graduating them. Looks like Miami dropped a whole 28 spots, so being a finishing school for affluent kids from Chicago just ain't that valued.

Miami 133
UC 142

But considering that there are 9 schools tied at 133 with UC right behind them, the schools are in a virtual tie. With UC's momentum in enrollment and selectivity and its clear advantage in some of the new metrics, I honestly think we pass them next year.

Sounds like UC knew this was coming based upon their emphasis on this. Thought we would rank a little bit better though based on their long-standing emphasis on first graduate in a family.

I love this USNWR topic and glad whenever you post on these topics.

1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Yes- but parents and general public know this ranking the best.

What do you guys feel is the best ranking for actual quality of education?

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

no message

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

The goal of a university should be to take the best and the brightest. Admitting students because of their race or socio-economic class over higher qualified students is just the further dumbing down of America. It's also advancing the entitlement mentality and lowering the blue collar workforce which is slowly dying in America.

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

Correct...but that isn't something that should be included in academic/instructional quality rankings. There are social mobility rankings for that, which are completely separate things entirely.

(09-20-2023 09:58 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

The goal of a university should be to take the best and the brightest. Admitting students because of their race or socio-economic class over higher qualified students is just the further dumbing down of America. It's also advancing the entitlement mentality and lowering the blue collar workforce which is slowly dying in America.

Got it. So no more admissions preferences for veterans or programs to help them succeed and graduate. Let that vet go be a plumber if his high school didn't prepare him to take the SAT.

(09-20-2023 09:58 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

The goal of a university should be to take the best and the brightest. Admitting students because of their race or socio-economic class over higher qualified students is just the further dumbing down of America. It's also advancing the entitlement mentality and lowering the blue collar workforce which is slowly dying in America.

There are some Universities like that...but definitely shouldn't be the goal for all. Just about every regional institution in the country would laugh at that mindset.

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Man, there is a reason why most people don't pay any attention to this stuff.

They should just use the USA Today Coaches' Poll method...every president gets to vote 1-500 once a year.

Of course the presidents would all just hand it to an intern to complete.

Pirates!

(09-20-2023 09:04 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  no message

Why did you delete your message. It was thought provoking like the messages from other posters.

(09-20-2023 09:58 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

The goal of a university should be to take the best and the brightest. Admitting students because of their race or socio-economic class over higher qualified students is just the further dumbing down of America. It's also advancing the entitlement mentality and lowering the blue collar workforce which is slowly dying in America.

They literally use it as a ranking input...how the hell does a school or worse a 3rd party even quantify and verify that data? Is it from an quationarre, a sworn affidavit, or do they just ask people to raise their hands at graduation. Ludicrous... but muh feels...lulz

(09-20-2023 05:15 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 09:58 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:47 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:15 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:13 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  1st graduate in a family is a ranking input?

Yeah...another in the long line of reasons why USNWR is not a viable ranking of actual quality to anyone in higher education.

Actually, to a LOT of people in higher ed, that is a measure of higher quality.

A lot of Presidents, the very first thing they'll brag about is an increase in minority students or an increase in first-in-family students. They literally think that is more important than a freshman class with a higher SAT score or higher high school ranking.

And with the so many employers targeting underrepresented categories, you can understand why Presidents think it is so important - because it's important to the employers who hire new graduates.

The goal of a university should be to take the best and the brightest. Admitting students because of their race or socio-economic class over higher qualified students is just the further dumbing down of America. It's also advancing the entitlement mentality and lowering the blue collar workforce which is slowly dying in America.

They literally use it as a ranking input...how the hell does a school or worse a 3rd party even quantify and verify that data? Is it from an quationarre, a sworn affidavit, or do they just ask people to raise their hands at graduation. Ludicrous... but muh feels...lulz

Bolded, key point. In the past, U.S. News & World Report sent questionaires to the universities. So it was ALL self-assessment and voluntary compliance. And to no one's surprise, the stakes are high so there were cases of incorrect data reported to enhance ratings. I'm not saying that was the norm, but it certainly happened.

Someone in higher education once shared with me that among university leadership, the U.S. News rankings were more about rating institutional prestige than quality of education. Not that those are mutually exclusive, but it makes some sense. The Ivy League will always be up there as well as the elite public universities while the rest of the public institutions strive to climb over the others on the ladder.

Shocking, but I was told that at one time, UC was not even completing the questionaires. The past couple of decades UC has been more diligent about reporting. As a result, rankings have improved but the goal should always be to keep climbing, especially among public research university peers.

We’ve actually slid in this pull over the last decade. At point point there was a goal by the university to be in the Top 100. I think we were as high as 126 at point. Last year it was at 151.

We have some excellent academic programs, particularly at the graduate level. I am a little concerned we have chosen the path of becoming a bit or undergraduate diploma mill. In a recent article in the Business Courier, enrollment was corrected from an earlier estimate to be 50,921. 8,000 of those students are noted to be on-line. With the stated goal of getting 60,000 by 2030 and a limited footprint around campus, I have to wonder if we’ll see the online enrollment jump up to 15,000.

(09-21-2023 09:00 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We’ve actually slid in this pull over the last decade. At point point there was a goal by the university to be in the Top 100. I think we were as high as 126 at point. Last year it was at 151.

We have some excellent academic programs, particularly at the graduate level. I am a little concerned we have chosen the path of becoming a bit or undergraduate diploma mill. In a recent article in the Business Courier, enrollment was corrected from an earlier estimate to be 50,921. 8,000 of those students are noted to be on-line. With the stated goal of getting 60,000 by 2030 and a limited footprint around campus, I have to wonder if we’ll see the online enrollment jump up to 15,000.

The slide is partly the result of USNWR bumping many universities that were in the "regional university" category previously into the "national universities" category, so it's not quite as bad as the numbers say. That being said, getting into the top 100 and top 50 public should be a goal. UC will most likely pass Miami by next year under the new format, so there's that to celebrate.