(09-22-2023 01:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:54 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And no, almost no candidates...until recently in the wake of the orange menace...who lost elections immediately claim they were stolen.

Sure "almost no candidates" - Only the loudest voice in the Dem party in 2016....

And I see how you wrapped up that comment up in a it's Trumps fault pass off....

How many losing candidates do you remember before trump lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in February 2016, that claimed their election was rigged and/or stolen?

And I'm in no way making excuses for Hillary and Abrams. Hillary lost that all on her own by campaigning poorly in the key swing states. But IIRC, she did concede. Abrams was wrong to never concede her first gubernatorial election.

A). Nobody remembers or gives much credence to individual state primary voting rhetoric, especially from years ago. Only you would try to relate that as being the same thing as losing rhetoric related to a Governor or Presidental election.

B). You DID insinuate with your prior post that none of this ever happened in a major election prior to Trump's statements after the 2020 election.

C). Hillary and Abrams are not the only Democrats to claim elections that a Democrat lost were "stolen", or that the winner was "illegitimate". In addition to the 3rd link I provided in a prior post (#94) see the link below for this educational tidbit -

"Bennie Thompson (D) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for Mississippi’s 2nd congressional district since 1993. He was one of 31 House Democrats who objected to the certification of the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio". By the way, the results were that the Republican Bush won.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chairman+T...showconv=1

(09-22-2023 03:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:54 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And no, almost no candidates...until recently in the wake of the orange menace...who lost elections immediately claim they were stolen.

Sure "almost no candidates" - Only the loudest voice in the Dem party in 2016....

And I see how you wrapped up that comment up in a it's Trumps fault pass off....

How many losing candidates do you remember before trump lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in February 2016, that claimed their election was rigged and/or stolen?

And I'm in no way making excuses for Hillary and Abrams. Hillary lost that all on her own by campaigning poorly in the key swing states. But IIRC, she did concede. Abrams was wrong to never concede her first gubernatorial election.

A). Nobody remembers or gives much credence to individual state primary voting rhetoric, especially from years ago. Only you would try to relate that as being the same thing as losing rhetoric related to a Governor or Presidental election.

B). You DID insinuate with your prior post that none of this ever happened in a major election prior to Trump's statements after the 2020 election.

C). Hillary and Abrams are not the only Democrats to claim elections that a Democrat lost were "stolen", or that the winner was "illegitimate". In addition to the 3rd link I provided in a prior post (#94) see the link below for this educational tidbit -

"Bennie Thompson (D) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for Mississippi’s 2nd congressional district since 1993. He was one of 31 House Democrats who objected to the certification of the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio". By the way, the results were that the Republican Bush won.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chairman+T...showconv=1

Why did you not quote the next two bullet points?

Quote: • However, this leaves out some important context. The 2005 objection was known by everyone at the time to be a procedural dead end, since the losing Democratic candidate, Sen. John Kerry, had conceded the election and had stated his opposition to the objection effort.

• By contrast, the loser in 2020, Donald Trump, was aggressively pursuing a campaign to overturn the election

(09-23-2023 11:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 03:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:54 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And no, almost no candidates...until recently in the wake of the orange menace...who lost elections immediately claim they were stolen.

Sure "almost no candidates" - Only the loudest voice in the Dem party in 2016....

And I see how you wrapped up that comment up in a it's Trumps fault pass off....

How many losing candidates do you remember before trump lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in February 2016, that claimed their election was rigged and/or stolen?

And I'm in no way making excuses for Hillary and Abrams. Hillary lost that all on her own by campaigning poorly in the key swing states. But IIRC, she did concede. Abrams was wrong to never concede her first gubernatorial election.

A). Nobody remembers or gives much credence to individual state primary voting rhetoric, especially from years ago. Only you would try to relate that as being the same thing as losing rhetoric related to a Governor or Presidental election.

B). You DID insinuate with your prior post that none of this ever happened in a major election prior to Trump's statements after the 2020 election.

C). Hillary and Abrams are not the only Democrats to claim elections that a Democrat lost were "stolen", or that the winner was "illegitimate". In addition to the 3rd link I provided in a prior post (#94) see the link below for this educational tidbit -

"Bennie Thompson (D) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for Mississippi’s 2nd congressional district since 1993. He was one of 31 House Democrats who objected to the certification of the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio". By the way, the results were that the Republican Bush won.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chairman+T...showconv=1

Why did you not quote the next two bullet points?

Quote: • However, this leaves out some important context. The 2005 objection was known by everyone at the time to be a procedural dead end, since the losing Democratic candidate, Sen. John Kerry, had conceded the election and had stated his opposition to the objection effort.

• By contrast, the loser in 2020, Donald Trump, was aggressively pursuing a campaign to overturn the election

Right. Additionally, I made it clear, and already pointed out to him as well, that I'm only talking about the candidate themselves saying the election was not fair or stolen from them. But he's citing what others said about it, not the candidate.

(09-25-2023 07:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 11:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 03:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:54 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Sure "almost no candidates" - Only the loudest voice in the Dem party in 2016....

And I see how you wrapped up that comment up in a it's Trumps fault pass off....

How many losing candidates do you remember before trump lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in February 2016, that claimed their election was rigged and/or stolen?

And I'm in no way making excuses for Hillary and Abrams. Hillary lost that all on her own by campaigning poorly in the key swing states. But IIRC, she did concede. Abrams was wrong to never concede her first gubernatorial election.

A). Nobody remembers or gives much credence to individual state primary voting rhetoric, especially from years ago. Only you would try to relate that as being the same thing as losing rhetoric related to a Governor or Presidental election.

B). You DID insinuate with your prior post that none of this ever happened in a major election prior to Trump's statements after the 2020 election.

C). Hillary and Abrams are not the only Democrats to claim elections that a Democrat lost were "stolen", or that the winner was "illegitimate". In addition to the 3rd link I provided in a prior post (#94) see the link below for this educational tidbit -

"Bennie Thompson (D) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for Mississippi’s 2nd congressional district since 1993. He was one of 31 House Democrats who objected to the certification of the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio". By the way, the results were that the Republican Bush won.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chairman+T...showconv=1

Why did you not quote the next two bullet points?

Quote: • However, this leaves out some important context. The 2005 objection was known by everyone at the time to be a procedural dead end, since the losing Democratic candidate, Sen. John Kerry, had conceded the election and had stated his opposition to the objection effort.

• By contrast, the loser in 2020, Donald Trump, was aggressively pursuing a campaign to overturn the election

Right. Additionally, I made it clear, and already pointed out to him as well, that I'm only talking about the candidate themselves saying the election was not fair or stolen from them. But he's citing what others said about it, not the candidate.

Really, what difference does it make if it's the candidate doing it, high ranking party officials doing it, or both stating that the election was stolen from either them or their party? I gave numerous examples of how the Democrats have made such statements - via the candidates themselves and by other elected officials in their party - both before and after Trump. Spin it some more!

(09-25-2023 10:38 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 07:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 11:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 03:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  How many losing candidates do you remember before trump lost the Iowa caucus to Cruz in February 2016, that claimed their election was rigged and/or stolen?

And I'm in no way making excuses for Hillary and Abrams. Hillary lost that all on her own by campaigning poorly in the key swing states. But IIRC, she did concede. Abrams was wrong to never concede her first gubernatorial election.

A). Nobody remembers or gives much credence to individual state primary voting rhetoric, especially from years ago. Only you would try to relate that as being the same thing as losing rhetoric related to a Governor or Presidental election.

B). You DID insinuate with your prior post that none of this ever happened in a major election prior to Trump's statements after the 2020 election.

C). Hillary and Abrams are not the only Democrats to claim elections that a Democrat lost were "stolen", or that the winner was "illegitimate". In addition to the 3rd link I provided in a prior post (#94) see the link below for this educational tidbit -

"Bennie Thompson (D) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for Mississippi’s 2nd congressional district since 1993. He was one of 31 House Democrats who objected to the certification of the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio". By the way, the results were that the Republican Bush won.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chairman+T...showconv=1

Why did you not quote the next two bullet points?

Quote: • However, this leaves out some important context. The 2005 objection was known by everyone at the time to be a procedural dead end, since the losing Democratic candidate, Sen. John Kerry, had conceded the election and had stated his opposition to the objection effort.

• By contrast, the loser in 2020, Donald Trump, was aggressively pursuing a campaign to overturn the election

Right. Additionally, I made it clear, and already pointed out to him as well, that I'm only talking about the candidate themselves saying the election was not fair or stolen from them. But he's citing what others said about it, not the candidate.

Really, what difference does it make if it's the candidate doing it, high ranking party officials doing it, or both stating that the election was stolen from either them or their party? I gave numerous examples of how the Democrats have made such statements - via the candidates themselves and by other elected officials in their party - both before and after Trump. Spin it some more!

It makes a difference in that you, or someone else, claimed I was saying ANY questioning only started with trump. I was only referring to the candidate themselves claiming the election was stolen...and I don't recall that happen much if ever until trump first lost the Iowa Caucus. Then he actually started claiming the 2016 election was being stolen from him before it even ******* happened!

Further, objections from Congress during the January 6 processes over the years is not at all the same thing as claiming someone stole an election. While I do not agree with these tactics on J6 because they're pointless and trivial, it is quite different.