We had a brand-new President and fairly new AD get railroaded. We can only hope this turns out well. We have zero control.

Add a naive Governor to that list as well.

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

The city owns the Liberty Bowl. The city owns the Forum.

The state isn't going to pick and choose winners and losers for capital projects for all the universities across the state.

(09-12-2023 04:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

Because it would be a waste of time. The state isn't going to build the U of M a new stadium.

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

Because it would be a waste of time. The state isn't going to build the U of M a new stadium.

Why not? The state paid for the construction of every other state college stadium in Tennessee.

(09-12-2023 04:12 PM)Keeper Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

Because it would be a waste of time. The state isn't going to build the U of M a new stadium.

Why not? The state paid for the construction of every other state college stadium in Tennessee.

Actually right now would be the best time ever for the state to build us an OCS. The folks in Nashville have little use for the City of Memphis right now. To fund a huge project and not give them control might tickle the crap out of a bunch of lawmakers.

(09-12-2023 04:12 PM)Keeper Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

Because it would be a waste of time. The state isn't going to build the U of M a new stadium.

Why not? The state paid for the construction of every other state college stadium in Tennessee.

Obviously that's not true. UT is currently spending around $350 million to renovate Neyland, and they are paying for it themselves. https://www.utdailybeacon.com/campus_new...5f24f.html

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

The city owns the Liberty Bowl. The city owns the Forum.

The state isn't going to pick and choose winners and losers for capital projects for all the universities across the state.

They do it all of the time…

(09-12-2023 04:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:57 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

Yes, we need an OCS, but it's not up to the state to pay for it. The school has to pay for it. USF just completed the funding for their $340M OCS, and it's $140M in cash & gifts and $200M via a bond offering. U of Houston helped pay for their OCS with $45 per semester student fee.

And Dr. Rudd did all he could do. Maybe he should have pushed for and OCS harder. But Dr. Rudd kept Bowen away from expansion and facilities. Dr. Rudd thought Bowen was a clown. Bowen started at a $400K salary, and still was making $400K 7 years later. There was a reason Bowen was interviewing for jobs every year.

Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

The city owns the Liberty Bowl. The city owns the Forum.

The state isn't going to pick and choose winners and losers for capital projects for all the universities across the state.

They do it all of the time…

For sports arenas? Then please give us some examples.

(09-12-2023 04:15 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:12 PM)Keeper Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:06 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Yet the state is funding the Liberty Bowl renovation.

Yes. The state has NEVER been shown an OCS proposal to reject.

Because it would be a waste of time. The state isn't going to build the U of M a new stadium.

Why not? The state paid for the construction of every other state college stadium in Tennessee.

Actually right now would be the best time ever for the state to build us an OCS. The folks in Nashville have little use for the City of Memphis right now. To fund a huge project and not give them control might tickle the crap out of a bunch of lawmakers.

Except every dime spent on the Tigers might better be spent buying Robert Pera's allegiance for another minute.

(09-12-2023 04:01 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:52 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

I’m sure they were trying to get their hands on any funding possible, but it’s hard to get. As I understand, this is money coming from the federal government that wasn’t available until now (I believe from infrastructure bill). Anyway, we have some really foolish people with their hands on this money, so it’s a crap shoot where it goes.

From what I understand, this is all state money. The state government ponied up roughly $500 million for Nashville’s new football stadium, so the city of Memphis requested similar funding for FedEx Forum, Redbirds Stadium, The Liberty Bowl & for a new soccer stadium. We’re now in the phase of deciding whose pockets to line as the city selects which projects to fund.

Sad but true.

(09-12-2023 12:16 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 12:12 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 11:41 AM)Claw Wrote:  The money will be spent to benefit the city. It's their money. Anyone who thought differently wasn't thinking - including the TN legislature.

No it's not "their" money. It's our money. The city officials are stewards of our money. As taxpayers who provided that money we certainly have a right to input and debate on the subject.

The city government. And you wonder why Memphis has so many problems….

Jim Strickland and like half the City Council are Memphis grads...we have support in City Hall IMHO.

(09-12-2023 03:15 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 01:46 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 01:25 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 01:19 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 11:41 AM)Claw Wrote:  The money will be spent to benefit the city. It's their money. Anyone who thought differently wasn't thinking - including the TN legislature.

Not entirely true. It's to be used ONLY for the Tigers and Grizz, according to how the city approves it.

I haven't seen the law they passed, but even if it says that, who is going to stop them?

Now that I think about it, I think the law - originally passed only for the Tigers and Grizz - was amended to include any sports venues in Memphis, as seen fit by the city.
So the city can't spend the money on schools, but they can dole it out as they choose I suppose.

Laird Veatch was just on the G@G radio show and said that the bill granting the money only mentions two structures. The Simmons Bank Liberty Bowl and the FedEx Forum.

(09-12-2023 06:36 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 04:01 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:52 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

I’m sure they were trying to get their hands on any funding possible, but it’s hard to get. As I understand, this is money coming from the federal government that wasn’t available until now (I believe from infrastructure bill). Anyway, we have some really foolish people with their hands on this money, so it’s a crap shoot where it goes.

From what I understand, this is all state money. The state government ponied up roughly $500 million for Nashville’s new football stadium, so the city of Memphis requested similar funding for FedEx Forum, Redbirds Stadium, The Liberty Bowl & for a new soccer stadium. We’re now in the phase of deciding whose pockets to line as the city selects which projects to fund.

Sad but true.

First thing that poster has ever said on here that made sense.

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

This is absolutely correct. The economics of a stadium on campus work with $150-200 million in cash from the state.

It makes much more sense for the state to give that money to another state entity than to the city of Memphis and indirectly a privately held business like the Grizzlies.

(09-12-2023 08:42 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

This is absolutely correct. The economics of a stadium on campus work with $150-200 million in cash from the state.

I think everyone on this board would agree that when any stadium project is gifted 200 million dollars, the economics work much better.

(09-12-2023 09:56 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 08:42 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

This is absolutely correct. The economics of a stadium on campus work with $150-200 million in cash from the state.

I think everyone on this board would agree that when any stadium project is gifted 200 million dollars, the economics work much better.

The state’s investment in these stadium “upgrades” was highlighted & justified by the TN’s speaker of the house because it would help elevate the UofM into a P5 conference… thus “picking winners & losers”. The fact the school couldn’t or wouldn’t make this case a decade ago is why we are where we are.

The state’s investment in this state university would have paid for itself in 5-10 years.

(09-13-2023 08:51 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 09:56 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 08:42 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 03:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  David Rudd, Tom Bowen & later Laird Veatch & Bill Hardgrave all should have been making the case to the state for an OCS & P5 inclusion for the past decade; & had they, we would not be mired in this very predictable pork barrel dole out.

This is absolutely correct. The economics of a stadium on campus work with $150-200 million in cash from the state.

I think everyone on this board would agree that when any stadium project is gifted 200 million dollars, the economics work much better.

The state’s investment in these stadium “upgrades” was highlighted & justified by the TN’s speaker of the house because it would help elevate the UofM into a P5 conference… thus “picking winners & losers”. The fact the school couldn’t or wouldn’t make this case a decade ago is why we are where we are.

The state’s investment in this state university would have paid for itself in 5-10 years.

Sometimes I don't know if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing.

If UT and MTSU pay for their stadiums upgrades, why should the state pay for our stadium? Depending on the state to bail our university out is a losing strategy, imo.

(09-12-2023 12:42 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 12:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 12:12 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 11:41 AM)Claw Wrote:  The money will be spent to benefit the city. It's their money. Anyone who thought differently wasn't thinking - including the TN legislature.

No it's not "their" money. It's our money. The city officials are stewards of our money. As taxpayers who provided that money we certainly have a right to input and debate on the subject.

Fair enough. YOU have a say.

I do not live in Memphis. I do live in Tennessee. I am an alumnus of the university. I do NOT have a voice in this, and I trust the City of Memphis less than my ex-wife.

Well Pera isn't a resident of Memphis or Tennessee. Guy lives in California. But he also has three houses in three other states. One in Miami he bought last year for 33 million. So he has homes in four states but none of them Tennessee. So outside of his private money and his private business in Tennessee I doubt he cares very much about the long-term outcomes in the city or the state. Which means I trust him less than I trust the politicians of the city of Memphis. I think the latter can at least be influenced by the taxpayer.

Maybe good old kind Pera will sell one or two of the five multi-million dollar homes he owns across the country. If his other 10 billion is locked up in stock he doesn't want to sell. He can then use that cash to fund the renovations he wants. I mean how many homes can one person live in at a time? I say it can't be more than three.