(09-12-2023 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 01:06 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  The magic number has been $10k for a long time for a Currency Transaction Report (CTR)... too long IMO. That had nothing to do with Patriot Act either. That is an old Bank Secrecy Act rule
that goes back to the 80's and it was originally for Drug related stuff (money laundering more specifically).

Back then $10K went A LOOOOONG way as compared today. The average bank may have had 100 or so filings a year and the overall average # of filings per institution was much less than 100. Now the annual reporting average is in the 1,000's (per bank per year). The banking industry has been trying to get that limit raised for a long time to no avail. I suspect now with the government strapped for money, that limit will never rise. Making matter worse (as someone mentioned) you need to watch for structuring too. You do a bunch of cash transactions in excess of $3k over a short period of time, you will surely get a Suspicious Activity Report filed on you - that is far, far worse than a CTR. The IRS gets to see those - that is when the party starts.


In the end, if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide. You are far better off doing the single $15k cash transaction than three of $7K, $3K, $5K to avoid a CTR....

The Patriot Act had to do with Cash on the person or kept in a non visible way, not banking transactions. I think the drug laws for cash on hand have something similar.

Partially correct. The PA definitely has A LOT to do with banking, but primarily with verifying & recording information that identifies each person who opens an account or changes an existing account. It also requires banks to create AML programs, with particular interest in cash transactions.

(09-12-2023 02:51 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-12-2023 01:06 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  The magic number has been $10k for a long time for a Currency Transaction Report (CTR)... too long IMO. That had nothing to do with Patriot Act either. That is an old Bank Secrecy Act rule
that goes back to the 80's and it was originally for Drug related stuff (money laundering more specifically).

Back then $10K went A LOOOOONG way as compared today. The average bank may have had 100 or so filings a year and the overall average # of filings per institution was much less than 100. Now the annual reporting average is in the 1,000's (per bank per year). The banking industry has been trying to get that limit raised for a long time to no avail. I suspect now with the government strapped for money, that limit will never rise. Making matter worse (as someone mentioned) you need to watch for structuring too. You do a bunch of cash transactions in excess of $3k over a short period of time, you will surely get a Suspicious Activity Report filed on you - that is far, far worse than a CTR. The IRS gets to see those - that is when the party starts.


In the end, if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide. You are far better off doing the single $15k cash transaction than three of $7K, $3K, $5K to avoid a CTR....

The Patriot Act had to do with Cash on the person or kept in a non visible way, not banking transactions. I think the drug laws for cash on hand have something similar.

Partially correct. The PA definitely has A LOT to do with banking, but primarily with verifying & recording information that identifies each person who opens an account or changes an existing account. It also requires banks to create AML programs, with particular interest in cash transactions.

I've known of a few coin and bullion dealers who have gotten tagged for possessing cash over the limit, especially at airports flying to and from shows. Where did the law on allowable amounts of cash on the person come from. I was under the impression it was from the Drug Laws, but I know first hand the right for the government to inspect safe deposit boxes came from the Patriot Act. I was tempted to keep my old boxes at a bank in a former home location because of it. Nothing to hide, it's just safe deposit boxes were private. When I relocated the new bank read me a list of exclusions to the safe deposit boxes and value limits which could be stored in them. Something changed between 1997 and 2006.