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TX AG Paxton Vindicated
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #21
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 06:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:10 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You missed the part where pretty much all the senior staff in the AG office said no 'physical evidence'. And missed where six of Paxton's top aides went to the FBI en masse and shared their personal experiences in the office to the FBI on that single day.

Im glad the dipshits are saying 'lying bastiges' without having seen a single iota of the trial. But, that is what I expect from that dude.

Q: Did you have any evidence?
A: No.
Q: After you went to the FBI to file a criminal complaint, did you subsequently find any evidence?
A: No.


What part are we missing?

The remainder of the testimony the next day from Verra, for one.

The entirety of the testimony from Penley, and two or three others from the group that went to the FBI as a group.

So did they present evidence to the FBI or did they not?

They presented their testimonial evidence to the FBI. I guess the people that you repeat without hesitation didnt mention that.

OK, fair point. So either they presented evidence to the FBI before and/or after their criminal complaint OR they did not present evidence to the FBI before and/or after their criminal complaint.

The person testifying said they had no evidence.

If they did have evidence then he is lying.

Is he lying or telling the truth?
09-11-2023 07:27 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #22
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
Why are lawyers buried 12 feet under?

Because deep down they're good people.
09-11-2023 08:44 PM
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TripleA Online
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Post: #23
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
"Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

You know, like the testimony in Trump's impeachment trials. Or the testimony in the J6 hearings.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 09:21 PM by TripleA.)
09-11-2023 09:19 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #24
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 07:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 06:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Q: Did you have any evidence?
A: No.
Q: After you went to the FBI to file a criminal complaint, did you subsequently find any evidence?
A: No.


What part are we missing?

The remainder of the testimony the next day from Verra, for one.

The entirety of the testimony from Penley, and two or three others from the group that went to the FBI as a group.

So did they present evidence to the FBI or did they not?

They presented their testimonial evidence to the FBI. I guess the people that you repeat without hesitation didnt mention that.

OK, fair point. So either they presented evidence to the FBI before and/or after their criminal complaint OR they did not present evidence to the FBI before and/or after their criminal complaint.

The person testifying said they had no evidence.

If they did have evidence then he is lying.

Is he lying or telling the truth?

Little (the defense cross examination attorney for Verra) did a good job, and at the start of the cross did nothing but state physical evidence. Continuously.

Kind of like --

Q: You went to the FBI with nothing in your hand, no evidence, right?
A: We told the FBI our story.
Q: You went with no physical evidence whatsoever, right?
A: Correct.

Re-direct of Verra brought out that the group of 7 or 8 who went to the FBI all gave testimonial evidence. And repeated that they didnt take documents or files and such.

And the prosecution hasnt allowed that sleight of hand to be sprung on any of the other of the entire top-level of the Atty General Office (literally, the *entire* top rung of the office) who went to the FBI literally as a group.

From the transcript:

Quote:Vassar: “My opinion was that our experiences were evidence, but we did not take our own investigation to provide documentary evidence of what we had come to learn.”

The actual testimony is important. Not the headline blurb.

That is the danger of reading really cute headlines about it. Or the crapola from Steve Bannon. Those last two things do a fantastic job of taking a single line, rip away every bit of context, and then trumpet it. Saw more than a few tweets using that very dishonest 'cut one sentence out' stuff elsewhere as well.

I've listened to about 85- 90% of the proceedings live, as background when I am crafting some documents. I know several of the people on each litigation team. Went to law school with one of the main attorneys doing the questioning.

The trial work (on both sides) is superb. All of Hardin, De Guerin, Buzbee, and Cogdell are pretty much *the* royalty in Texas litigation. Seeing a two on two death match is awesome.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 09:53 PM by tanqtonic.)
09-11-2023 09:20 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #25
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 09:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  "Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

The issues that they as a group witnessed are all pretty telling. Paxton was seemingly carrying a lot of water for Nate Paul in using the power of the Atty General Office.

I would suggest here for some background:

https://www.texastribune.org/series/ken-...y-general/
09-11-2023 09:23 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #26
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 09:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  "Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

The issues that they as a group witnessed are all pretty telling. Paxton was seemingly carrying a lot of water for Nate Paul in using the power of the Atty General Office.

I would suggest here for some background:

https://www.texastribune.org/series/ken-...y-general/

As much as I hate to agree with Tanq I believe that Paxton is dirty and needs to go. I am not sure why Buzbee took Paxton on but that guy is the absolute best at creating doubt and placing second and third guessing into your mind. I believe he will walk but that doesn't mean he isn't guilty of using his position of power for personal gain.
09-11-2023 10:23 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #27
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 10:23 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  "Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

The issues that they as a group witnessed are all pretty telling. Paxton was seemingly carrying a lot of water for Nate Paul in using the power of the Atty General Office.

I would suggest here for some background:

https://www.texastribune.org/series/ken-...y-general/

As much as I hate to agree with Tanq I believe that Paxton is dirty and needs to go. I am not sure why Buzbee took Paxton on but that guy is the absolute best at creating doubt and placing second and third guessing into your mind. I believe he will walk but that doesn't mean he isn't guilty of using his position of power for personal gain.

I've said this elsewhere -- the testimony seems pretty powerful that Paxton was carrying water for Nate Paul. The amount he intervened to use the power of the Office of the Atty General was a lot -- and he did it multiple times.

The defense has been good at two things. Fantastic in fact. First, there has been no indication of Paxton benefitting from Nate Paul.

The second thing the defense has done has emphasized that *all* the actions Paxton did or promoted were within his legal power ---
a) he *could* direct the Office to intervene in the suits in favor of Nate Paul;
b) he *could* direct the Office to issue an opinion that allowed the release of the affidavits supporting the raids on Paul's house and properties;
c) he *could* ask his deputies to look into investigating the FBI, the Securities Board, the Texas Rangers, the US Attorney office, the US Bankruptcy judge, the clerk of the bankruptcy court, the US Magistrate, and the clerk of the US Magistrate at the request of Paul, and as somehow being in a giant conspiracy against Paul;
d) he *could* order a rush Atty General opinion over a weekend, and *can* order the authors to change their opinion just in time to stop a Paul foreclosure sale;
e) he *can* contract with a private attorney to be a special prosecutor for the c) above when his deputies refuse, and he *can* ask that private special prosecutor to target attorneys representing attorneys of Paul opponents.

There isnt any question that the Texas Attorney General *can* do those things as being the office holder -- the more important question the defense *doesnt* address is how proper it is for the Texas Attorney General to do all of the above to help one specific person. Im still perplexed *why* Paxton carried that water -- that hasnt been developed very well. If at all.

Blue, the reason Buzbee is doing this is for notoriety. This is the biggest trial in Texas in 40 years. I've known Buzbee for close to 30 years. He does anything and *everything* to gain attention. But that is what makes him one of the royalty of Texas litigation.

Hardin and de Guerin v Buzbee and Cogdell is truly an epic showdown.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 10:43 PM by tanqtonic.)
09-11-2023 10:40 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #28
TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 04:56 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  RINOs admit in hearing they had NO evidence when they reported TX AG Ken Paxton to the FBI for criminal activity.





Too good.

Too, too good.

Very likely a UT Austin mutt.

My once very proud Ma and Pa alums from there. 4 degrees betwixt em

Sad.

So, Sad

Buh bye fake lawsuit






Y’all starting to figure this out yet?







Suckers
09-11-2023 11:45 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #29
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 07:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 06:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 05:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Q: Did you have any evidence?
A: No.
Q: After you went to the FBI to file a criminal complaint, did you subsequently find any evidence?
A: No.


What part are we missing?

The remainder of the testimony the next day from Verra, for one.

The entirety of the testimony from Penley, and two or three others from the group that went to the FBI as a group.

So did they present evidence to the FBI or did they not?

They presented their testimonial evidence to the FBI. I guess the people that you repeat without hesitation didnt mention that.

It was the equivalent of, "I think Tangtonic raped that girl because I saw him walking near her. No, she didn't file any complaints, but it looked fishy."

Goes well beyond that level. If you actually read about the case instead of repeating upchuck, you might get a better understanding.

Please regale us on your ignorance, and the depth of how little you actually know of the trial. It is so fitting for this forum for some.
09-11-2023 11:52 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #30
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
So it’s cool to go to the FBI and file a complaint because you don’t like your bosses’ non-illegal actions? That’s what I’m getting out of this. A group of people in the office didn’t like the AG using his power in a non-illegal way and thought he should be investigated for doing it even though there is no evidence he benefited from it.

I can here it now, he will be found guilty of difference of opinion.
09-12-2023 01:14 AM
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TripleA Online
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Post: #31
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 01:14 AM)banker Wrote:  So it’s cool to go to the FBI and file a complaint because you don’t like your bosses’ non-illegal actions? That’s what I’m getting out of this. A group of people in the office didn’t like the AG using his power in a non-illegal way and thought he should be investigated for doing it even though there is no evidence he benefited from it.

I can here it now, he will be found guilty of difference of opinion.

Yeah, contrary to the opinion of some in here, the rest of us can actually read and comprehend, and sometimes come to different conclusions.

IMO, "testimonial evidence" is just hearsay or opinion until someone digs up some actual evidence of legal wrongdoing and personal gain. Did I miss something?

In this era of cancel culture, I don't believe a damn thing people say any more.
09-12-2023 04:22 AM
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Post: #32
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 05:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  All lawyers (vast majority of our government) qualify as lying bastiges. You do you.

Paxton is a lawyer. So was he lying when he said he is innocent?
09-12-2023 04:36 AM
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Post: #33
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-11-2023 09:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  "Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

The issues that they as a group witnessed are all pretty telling. Paxton was seemingly carrying a lot of water for Nate Paul in using the power of the Atty General Office.

I would suggest here for some background:

https://www.texastribune.org/series/ken-...y-general/

Seemingly, presumably, according to... those terms are pretty telling? They tell me there is no solid evidence or they would have presented it. This was nothing more than show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

My best friend is a lawyer so by extension that must mean I know the law.

I feel bad for your clients, assuming you do criminal law and not just bankruptcies.
09-12-2023 06:06 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #34
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
Well if this thread has done nothing else it's exposed the RINO's here.
09-12-2023 06:09 AM
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TripleA Online
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Post: #35
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 06:09 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Well if this thread has done nothing else it's exposed the RINO's here.

Yep. The country is crumbling all around us, the leftists are trying to strangle us with all the evils of socialism, Biden is a blatantly corrupt evil senile basturd who is quickly destroying all vestiges of a free America, and all a few on here can focus on is Orange Man Bad and some state AG perhaps "overstepping his authority," but without tangible proof.

Folks, Trump and Paxton are NOT what is wrong with this country right now.
09-12-2023 06:49 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #36
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 06:49 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(09-12-2023 06:09 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Well if this thread has done nothing else it's exposed the RINO's here.

Yep. The country is crumbling all around us, the leftists are trying to strangle us with all the evils of socialism, Biden is a blatantly corrupt evil senile basturd who is quickly destroying all vestiges of a free America, and all a few on here can focus on is Orange Man Bad and some state AG perhaps "overstepping his authority," but without tangible proof.

Folks, Trump and Paxton are NOT what is wrong with this country right now.

But but mean tweets

Reeeeeeeeeee03-hissyfit
09-12-2023 07:01 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #37
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 06:49 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(09-12-2023 06:09 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Well if this thread has done nothing else it's exposed the RINO's here.

Yep. The country is crumbling all around us, the leftists are trying to strangle us with all the evils of socialism, Biden is a blatantly corrupt evil senile basturd who is quickly destroying all vestiges of a free America, and all a few on here can focus on is Orange Man Bad and some state AG perhaps "overstepping his authority," but without tangible proof.

Folks, Trump and Paxton are NOT what is wrong with this country right now.

I've said it since 2008, we have been inching closer to a tipping point in this country and in the last 2-3 years we've been pushed farther and farther until we're dangling over the edge. I won't take much to push us completely over.

I cite 2008 because Obama. He was the gatekeeper assigned to open the floodgates.
09-12-2023 08:05 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #38
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 01:14 AM)banker Wrote:  So it’s cool to go to the FBI and file a complaint because you don’t like your bosses’ non-illegal actions? That’s what I’m getting out of this. A group of people in the office didn’t like the AG using his power in a non-illegal way and thought he should be investigated for doing it even though there is no evidence he benefited from it.

I can here it now, he will be found guilty of difference of opinion.

When it appears he is using the entirety of the power of his office to aid a crook --- yes.

I guess you missed that salient point.

It helps to read about it instead of making ignorant broad statements. Lol.
09-12-2023 08:20 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #39
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 04:22 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(09-12-2023 01:14 AM)banker Wrote:  So it’s cool to go to the FBI and file a complaint because you don’t like your bosses’ non-illegal actions? That’s what I’m getting out of this. A group of people in the office didn’t like the AG using his power in a non-illegal way and thought he should be investigated for doing it even though there is no evidence he benefited from it.

I can here it now, he will be found guilty of difference of opinion.

Yeah, contrary to the opinion of some in here, the rest of us can actually read and comprehend, and sometimes come to different conclusions.

IMO, "testimonial evidence" is just hearsay or opinion until someone digs up some actual evidence of legal wrongdoing and personal gain. Did I miss something?

In this era of cancel culture, I don't believe a damn thing people say any more.

Too bad the facts of Paxtons actions line up with their testimony.
I guess you missed that issue in the long run.

Considering you are opining from tweet reading or the like, call me unsurprised.
09-12-2023 08:23 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #40
RE: TX AG Paxton Vindicated
(09-12-2023 06:06 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  "Testimonial evidence?" Like he said, she said?

As a lawyer, I'm sure Tanq knows that testimony is the least reliable evidence in any trial.

The issues that they as a group witnessed are all pretty telling. Paxton was seemingly carrying a lot of water for Nate Paul in using the power of the Atty General Office.

I would suggest here for some background:

https://www.texastribune.org/series/ken-...y-general/

Seemingly, presumably, according to... those terms are pretty telling? They tell me there is no solid evidence or they would have presented it. This was nothing more than show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

My best friend is a lawyer so by extension that must mean I know the law.

I feel bad for your clients, assuming you do criminal law and not just bankruptcies.

You do know that when other people relate an issue, media typically uses 'according to', right? Are you that stupid?

And, before a verdict, the same for 'seemingly' and 'presumably'?

Lol.

Get back to your 'Paxton Trial' comic book analysis coupled with the 'chip on the shoulder' whiny ad hom. They go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This entire discussion simply underscores the ignorance of some on this board.
09-12-2023 08:32 AM
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