EXPERTS SAY PAC-12 REALLY COULD HAVE USED BYU WHEN IT COMES TO MEDIA RIGHTS NEGOTIATIONS, Deseret News, by Dick Harmon, March 22, 2023;

"First off, we have the credibility for going out and expanding," said Jim Williams.

"And I don't think Bowlsby gets enough credit for that one," said Jim WIlliams, Forbes writer and former employee of ESPN. "The money shot was BYU. And the reason the money shot was BYU back in 2010 when the shift came, and again in 2015 and when we started getting people in, I had been involved in some of that in both times. ESPN was telling me, you know how much BYU is worth? BYU is probably the difference between $27-$28 million and the $31.6 million per Big-12 school in that contract."

Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...cla-oregon

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Utah was likely the biggest obstacle

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Lol I agree their priorities are out of wac

(09-01-2023 07:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Lol I agree their priorities are out of wac

Out of "PAC," not out of "WAC."

(09-01-2023 06:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...cla-oregon

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

I go around now and then and check out Big-12 schools' message board. I found this article that BYU boosted the payout per Big-12 school by $4 million. I had not seen that before so I posted it here. I have to admit I cannot keep up with this board and may have repeated this article. THE LAST THING I WAS CONCERNED WITH WAS PAC NEGOTIATIONS WHICH, AS YOU SAY, HAVE BEEN THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD. But sorry for the duplication of the $4 million per Big-12 school if that was already posted.

(09-01-2023 06:36 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Utah was likely the biggest obstacle

Utah would have been a yes vote. The administrations get along great.

Also, Dick Harmon knows less about realignment than Monty.

(09-01-2023 08:44 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:36 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Utah was likely the biggest obstacle

Utah would have been a yes vote. The administrations get along great.

Also, Dick Harmon knows less about realignment than Monty.

I think both would prefer to be in the same conference. It’s a good rivalry on the field, but slightly different constituencies and a market with plenty of room for both.

(09-01-2023 07:47 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...cla-oregon

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

I go around now and then and check out Big-12 schools' message board. I found this article that BYU boosted the payout per Big-12 school by $4 million. I had not seen that before so I posted it here. I have to admit I cannot keep up with this board and may have repeated this article. THE LAST THING I WAS CONCERNED WITH WAS PAC NEGOTIATIONS WHICH, AS YOU SAY, HAVE BEEN THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD. But sorry for the duplication of the $4 million per Big-12 school if that was already posted.

I'm happy to discuss it again.

Do you think that BYU actually boosted the Big 12 contract by $4m per team? If so, that means that they have a $78m brand value, which would be above average for the P2.

(09-01-2023 08:44 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:36 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Sharing a conference with BYU was a no go for some in the PAC

Yeah, and those schools are now making $8m a year eating out of FSU's trash can.

Utah was likely the biggest obstacle

Utah would have been a yes vote. The administrations get along great.

Also, Dick Harmon knows less about realignment than Monty.

Dude...that was harsh! Dick Harmon can't be THAT bad!

(09-02-2023 08:21 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 07:47 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...cla-oregon

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

I go around now and then and check out Big-12 schools' message board. I found this article that BYU boosted the payout per Big-12 school by $4 million. I had not seen that before so I posted it here. I have to admit I cannot keep up with this board and may have repeated this article. THE LAST THING I WAS CONCERNED WITH WAS PAC NEGOTIATIONS WHICH, AS YOU SAY, HAVE BEEN THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD. But sorry for the duplication of the $4 million per Big-12 school if that was already posted.

I'm happy to discuss it again.

Do you think that BYU actually boosted the Big 12 contract by $4m per team? If so, that means that they have a $78m brand value, which would be above average for the P2.

Like most posters on this board, the only thing I have to go by is statements by university leaders and sports writers with their contacts. BYU was added to Big-12 prior to anyone thinking the PAC would fall apart and before anyone could conceive AZ, ASU, CO, and UT would be in BIg-12. BYU's addition provided an entry into the far west tv market. So maybe BYU's value to Big-12 and ESPN was strong. Your question should be best directed to Jim Williams, the source of the info.

Many, many analysts predicted Big-12 would take a 50% haircut on its tv contract with Texas and OU departing to SEC. That didn't happen. Why? Maybe part of the answer lies with BYU....along with UCF, Cincinnati, and Houston.

Playing without the benefit of being in a P5 conference and access to prestigous bowls (which independent Notre Dame had), BYU's football game day attendance average is more than Utah and Oregon and only about 5,000 less than USC and Washington. What do I think? I think BYU is a very valuable football property.

(09-02-2023 08:21 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 07:47 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...decisions-

I'm happy to discuss it again.

Do you think that BYU actually boosted the Big 12 contract by $4m per team? If so, that means that they have a $78m brand value, which would be above average for the P2.

Agree, I don't buy it for a minute. BYU was worth about 8 mil by themselves, but worth $4 mil x12=48 mil plus 25 million for the piece they got for their share, $73 million total. Sorry but that makes 0 sense. Were they a positive for the B12? Yes, but not that big of a positive.
The B12 added the best 4 schools available, and then were aided by PAC12 greed, and over inflated egos. It made sense for ESPN to work with them and save $$.

Espn reportedly was initially willing to pay $30 for PAC content when Pac wanted 50, They likely slightly overpaid B12 to go early, then ESPN got the best of 4 schools content for $21.5 mil. Worked out fine for ESPN esp. with Stanford and Cal now in ACC for under $40 mil.

(09-02-2023 09:51 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(09-02-2023 08:21 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 07:47 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 06:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Sigh. Old news. We discussed this article when it came out. It has not aged well, especially in light of the recent LA Times article.

ESPN offered the Pac $30m per school last fall. When Kliakoff and Crow conspired with some ASU egghead to try to justify a $50m valuation per school (LOL), ESPN turned around and, along with Fox, basically gave that same deal to the Big 12. Would BYU have altered that calculus even slightly? Unlikely. Is BYU worth more than $30m to a conference media rights deal? I lean towards yes, but I'm far from certain of it. But, even if they're worth more than $30m, how much more? They'd need to bring $42m worth of value to bump a 12 member contract $1m per school. $54m to bump it $2m per school. It would take a BYU valuation of $78m to bump the AVERAGE of the Big 12 contract that was already roughly $30m up by $4m. If BYU had that kind of value to the networks then they'd have joined the Big 12 a decade ago b/c ESPN would have pushed for it.

Here's the LA Times article discussing the recent Pac breakup:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...decisions-

I'm happy to discuss it again.

Do you think that BYU actually boosted the Big 12 contract by $4m per team? If so, that means that they have a $78m brand value, which would be above average for the P2.

Agree, I don't buy it for a minute. BYU was worth about 8 mil by themselves, but worth $4 mil x12=48 mil plus 25 million for the piece they got for their share, $73 million total. Sorry but that makes 0 sense. Were they a positive for the B12? Yes, but not that big of a positive.
The B12 added the best 4 schools available, and then were aided by PAC12 greed, and over inflated egos. It made sense for ESPN to work with them and save $$.

Espn reportedly was initially willing to pay $30 for PAC content when Pac wanted 50, They likely slightly overpaid B12 to go early, then ESPN got the best of 4 schools content for $21.5 mil. Worked out fine for ESPN esp. with Stanford and Cal now in ACC for under $40 mil.

Big-12 Commissioner Brett Yormark has stated more than once that it was urgent for the Big-12 to nail down a tv contract quickly to insure stability.....and that this was not the time to get in protracted negotiations to wring every last dollar out of ESPN. It was not worth the risk. So it could be the Big-12 was slightly underpaid rather than slightly overpaid The Big-12 now has 8 years to play together and hopefully Big-12's negotiating position will be strong when the tv contract expires in 8 years rather than the panic situation in negotiating this new tv contract just signed.

BiG is paying out $65 million per BiG school on their tv contract. Does it make sense that a school like Northrwestern, Indiana, Rutgers, or Purdue is worth what an Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State is worth? Probably the truth is Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State are worth twice the $65 million if not more, something in excess of $130 million. So with that perspective, it is not unreasonable that BYU is worth something much more than the average Big-12 school. BYU automatically leads the Big-12 in football attendance and second only to Kansas in basketball attendance.