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slktigers · 08-30-2023 09:27 AM

Washington State President - "Washington State's president Kirk Schulz who told reporters he is still hoping that the Pac-12 is capable of "keeping the band together" in order to "see what that next step looks like".

The next step in question would likely mean some sort of Pac-12 expansion, which would likely consist of adding teams in the American for 2024, and then grabbing programs from the Mountain West in 2025."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/was...r-AA1fXEu6

https://www.si.com/college/stanford/foot...id=memphis

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 09:40 AM

I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

aardWolf · 08-30-2023 09:58 AM

(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 10:28 AM

(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

Right, so they have to have 5 new members by the time the 2024 conference year starts.

In order to add any teams they have to extend invitations. Those invitations have to be accepted. The accepted school has to give notice to their own conference.

keep in mind the Big 12 invited Cincy, UCF and Houston 2 years before they actually joined. Last year those schools were AAC lame duck members, not Big 12 members.

As of now, the Pac 12 still meets the min requirements for membership. But at the end of this conference year (maybe May, June) they have to have 7 members.

Let's say Memphis was invited and accepted. We have to tell the AAC this will be our last year in the conference. I don't know that we can do that per the bylaws. Maybe we can, but what if that's forbidden? What if you have to give 1 year notice.

That means we couldn't join until 2025. And I assume that would hold true for all other AAC schools.

That would mean next conference year, 2024, the Pac 12 would only have 4 member institutions which fails to meet the 7 member requirement.

And I think there's also a continuity clause. I don't remember, but I think it's 8 consecutive years.

The Pac 12 meets the requirements going backward in history so they meet the continuity requirement. Next year they would have 4. That breaks the 8 year cycle.

Even if they added 5 for 2025 in order to meet the minimum requirement of 7 members, they fail the continuity clause.

Maybe AAC schools can leave immediately, but I bet there would be a huge financial penalty. Conference offices have to know membership in order to create schedules. They're already working on next year's schedule (I assume).

Hopefully I'm completely wrong on this. I'm not sure.

true_blue_thru_and_thru · 08-30-2023 10:28 AM

(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 10:39 AM

(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year
1. $7M (running total $7M)
2. $7M (running total $14M)
3. $7M (running total $21M)
4. $7M (running total $28M)
5. $7M (running total $35M)
6. $7M (running total $42M)
7. $7M (running total $49M)
8. $7M (running total $56M)
9. $7M (running total $63M)
10. $7M (running total $70M)
ACC
Year
1. $0 (running total $0)
2. $0 (running total $0)
3. $0 (running total $0)
4. $0 (running total $0)
5. $0 (running total $0)
6. $0 (running total $0)
7. $0 (running total $0)
8. $39.4M (running total $39.4M)
9. $39.4M (running total $78.8M)
10. $39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

former guest · 08-30-2023 10:41 AM

Does the PACwhatever even have a media deal beyond the end of this one yet? Did they give up trying to negotiate one when all the prized pieces bailed? What would be the benefit of jumping from a paltry media payout deal with the AAC to an as-yet TBD one (if it even materializes)?

Believe me, I am not a fan of our current configuration but at least it pays something. Looks like they are running around with their collective hair on fire to me.

former guest · 08-30-2023 10:48 AM

(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

One thing I would question about your list is what about when our contract comes up for renegotiation? Honestly, I just do not know when it happens myself, but might it not go up a little during that 10-year timeframe?

mapdude · 08-30-2023 10:49 AM

Joining the PAC #? will kill non revenue sports. Conference travel expenses will be the death bell for them all.

Tigx · 08-30-2023 10:57 AM

(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

Great post, umbluegray. And also, from reports, SMU's conference money won't be zero. They would forego money from the media deal, but SMU would get their share of ACC distributions from the CFP and the NCAA Tournament.

Also, one would assume their attendance would increase with the improved schedule, and SMU likely would be able to increase ticket prices and student fees.

Imo, we shouldn't be criticizing SMU for "buying" their way in, we should be asking our leadership why they haven't been being creative like SMU's leadership.

memtiger1987 · 08-30-2023 11:44 AM

(08-30-2023 10:57 AM)Tigx Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

Great post, umbluegray. And also, from reports, SMU's conference money won't be zero. They would forego money from the media deal, but SMU would get their share of ACC distributions from the CFP and the NCAA Tournament.

Also, one would assume their attendance would increase with the improved schedule, and SMU likely would be able to increase ticket prices and student fees.

Imo, we shouldn't be criticizing SMU for "buying" their way in, we should be asking our leadership why they haven't been being creative like SMU's leadership.

While it seems like a crazy deal, it’s really not if you can get by for 7 years. And SMU can. No matter what happens, even being in a depleted ACC would be better than any other available option. And, if it implodes, they’re probably going to get a split of huge exit fees. Really smart concept for SMU to escape AAC hell. It’s really an awful conference now.

fsquid · 08-30-2023 11:49 AM

(08-30-2023 10:57 AM)Tigx Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

Great post, umbluegray. And also, from reports, SMU's conference money won't be zero. They would forego money from the media deal, but SMU would get their share of ACC distributions from the CFP and the NCAA Tournament.

Also, one would assume their attendance would increase with the improved schedule, and SMU likely would be able to increase ticket prices and student fees.

Imo, we shouldn't be criticizing SMU for "buying" their way in, we should be asking our leadership why they haven't been being creative like SMU's leadership.

we've offered that kinda of deal to the Big 12.

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 11:55 AM

(08-30-2023 10:48 AM)former guest Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

One thing I would question about your list is what about when our contract comes up for renegotiation? Honestly, I just do not know when it happens myself, but might it not go up a little during that 10-year timeframe?

That is is a possibility. I'm not sure when our deal ends. Will the new deal be more or less?

But also, it's possible the ACC might have a change to their deal as well. I assume their deal would end up being more, unless their league exploded.

I still think SMU has to take that deal, even with the possibility of the ACC going defunct. It would probably be easier for SMU to be pulled into another league coming out of the P5 ACC. Who knows.

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 11:57 AM

(08-30-2023 11:49 AM)fsquid Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:57 AM)Tigx Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote: They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

Great post, umbluegray. And also, from reports, SMU's conference money won't be zero. They would forego money from the media deal, but SMU would get their share of ACC distributions from the CFP and the NCAA Tournament.

Also, one would assume their attendance would increase with the improved schedule, and SMU likely would be able to increase ticket prices and student fees.

Imo, we shouldn't be criticizing SMU for "buying" their way in, we should be asking our leadership why they haven't been being creative like SMU's leadership.

we've offered that kinda of deal to the Big 12.

Which makes the matter all the worse for us.

If the criteria is media market size, then the answer is grow the media market.

Tigerx3 · 08-30-2023 11:59 AM

(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

The ACC is not a dove deal. Right now there are4 no votes which means unless one changes to yes then no expansion will occur. The presidents Conf call was canceled due to the UNC shooting with no reschedule date. At least 7 ACC schools want out of the 4th lowest media contract that they are stuck with until after the other 3 conferences get to renegotiate. That’s late to the trough.
If FSU, Clemson, uNC, NCState, Virginia, Miami, Duke leave the ACC won’t be much better off than the PAC. SMU, Stanford, Cal are all place holders not value added.

memtiger1987 · 08-30-2023 11:59 AM

(08-30-2023 10:49 AM)mapdude Wrote: Joining the PAC #? will kill non revenue sports. Conference travel expenses will be the death bell for them all.

Why? If five AAC teams join, you just have two West Coast teams. Play back to back when you travel west. A couple more hours on Delta. Not a big deal.

memtiger1987 · 08-30-2023 12:03 PM

(08-30-2023 11:59 AM)Tigerx3 Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I can't help but wonder if they've passed the window of keeping their NCAA Member Conference status.

If they have, maybe there's an appeal/exception process.

They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

The ACC is not a dove deal. Right now there are4 no votes which means unless one changes to yes then no expansion will occur. The presidents Conf call was canceled due to the UNC shooting with no reschedule date. At least 7 ACC schools want out of the 4th lowest media contract that they are stuck with until after the other 3 conferences get to renegotiate. That’s late to the trough.
If FSU, Clemson, uNC, NCState, Virginia, Miami, Duke leave the ACC won’t be much better off than the PAC. SMU, Stanford, Cal are all place holders not value added.

Louisville, V tech, Syracuse, BC, WF are much better than the PAC. Add Memphis, Tulane, USF, SMU, and UCONN would be a very good conference. Good football and basketball and less travel.

umbluegray · 08-30-2023 12:05 PM

(08-30-2023 12:03 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:
(08-30-2023 11:59 AM)Tigerx3 Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:39 AM)umbluegray Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:28 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:
(08-30-2023 09:58 AM)aardWolf Wrote: They still have their existing members until next football season, if I'm not mistaken. So it's starting in 2024 that they would have an issue with not having enough teams to be a conference. That's why the talk of adding AAC teams immediately to meet the minimum requirement, then adding MWC schools the following year to limit fees for leaving.

I just don't see how a conference of AAC/MWC + Wazzu/OSU = higher money then what AAC deal is right now? At least not high enough to compensate for increase travel costs, etc. That's why the SMU deal is bonkers to me. What's the upside of being in a P5 if you receive none of the P5 money for seven years?! They're not in a position to compete in any major sports from the jump so not like they're banking on playoff money or NCAA tourney credits. Hell, in seven years elite of B10/SEC + FSU/Clemson could get smart and start their own damn league by then.

SMU Options

American
Year

$7M (running total $7M)

$7M (running total $14M)

$7M (running total $21M)

$7M (running total $28M)

$7M (running total $35M)

$7M (running total $42M)

$7M (running total $49M)

$7M (running total $56M)

$7M (running total $63M)

$7M (running total $70M)

ACC
Year

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$0 (running total $0)

$39.4M (running total $39.4M)

$39.4M (running total $78.8M)

$39.4M (running total $118.2M)

Assuming you can weather the first 7 years, which option would you choose?

The ACC is not a dove deal. Right now there are4 no votes which means unless one changes to yes then no expansion will occur. The presidents Conf call was canceled due to the UNC shooting with no reschedule date. At least 7 ACC schools want out of the 4th lowest media contract that they are stuck with until after the other 3 conferences get to renegotiate. That’s late to the trough.
If FSU, Clemson, uNC, NCState, Virginia, Miami, Duke leave the ACC won’t be much better off than the PAC. SMU, Stanford, Cal are all place holders not value added.

Louisville, V tech, Syracuse, BC, WF are much better than the PAC. Add Memphis, Tulane, USF, SMU, and UCONN would be a very good conference. Good football and basketball and less travel.

Good point.

04-bow

Tigx · 08-30-2023 12:15 PM

(08-30-2023 11:59 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:49 AM)mapdude Wrote: Joining the PAC #? will kill non revenue sports. Conference travel expenses will be the death bell for them all.

Why? If five AAC teams join, you just have two West Coast teams. Play back to back when you travel west. A couple more hours on Delta. Not a big deal.

So we are chartering flights for the soccer, volleyball, tennis . . . teams to go to Washington State and Oregon State?

Because if we don't, I haven't seen a lot of non-stop Delta flights to Corvallis, Oregon and Pullman, Washington. It's almost a 300 mile drive from Seattle to Pullman.

Oregon State and Washington State are no longer P5 schools. I question the urgency to pursue them.

Unless . . . we can also get the better Mountain West schools and top 4-6 American schools, negotiate a new TV deal, and cut out the dregs of the American Conference. Then we have a decent East West division set up, and don't have to be in a conference with Charlotte or FAU or Rice . . .

pmantiger · 08-30-2023 12:26 PM

(08-30-2023 12:15 PM)Tigx Wrote:
(08-30-2023 11:59 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:
(08-30-2023 10:49 AM)mapdude Wrote: Joining the PAC #? will kill non revenue sports. Conference travel expenses will be the death bell for them all.

Why? If five AAC teams join, you just have two West Coast teams. Play back to back when you travel west. A couple more hours on Delta. Not a big deal.

So we are chartering flights for the soccer, volleyball, tennis . . . teams to go to Washington State and Oregon State?

Because if we don't, I haven't seen a lot of non-stop Delta flights to Corvallis, Oregon and Pullman, Washington. It's almost a 300 mile drive from Seattle to Pullman.

Oregon State and Washington State are no longer P5 schools. I question the urgency to pursue them.

Unless . . . we can also get the better Mountain West schools and top 4-6 American schools, negotiate a new TV deal, and cut out the dregs of the American Conference. Then we have a decent East West division set up, and don't have to be in a conference with Charlotte or FAU or Rice . . .

IMO the perfect world in this set up would be for them to add 7 AAC for next year and then 5 MWC the following year. That would give you the ability to pull in what you think are the strongest and your non-revenue sports could play almost exclusively eastern division foes along with other non-conference regional teams. Football would be 6 divisional games and 2 against the west with one road trip. Basketball would be 12 divisional and 7 against the west. Odd number of west games does create an extra home or away game but that would rotate from one year to the next.

The big question is whether they can get a media deal worked out in time for this to take place next year. If the PAC and AAC were merging you would in theory be abiel to keep the PAC charter but carry over the media deal and hopefully bump it up. But that means we bring along the whole AAC conference which is not likely to be appetizing to the PAC teams.

The other possibility is that the PAC pays a portion of each AAC teams exit fees from their war chest...but you still have to know what the media deal is before we or any other team would agree.

Just so many possibilities.

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