Is it one singular event that caused it? Or is it a combination of events that have occurred since the end of the Civil War?

A series of events that started with Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and accelerated right after WWII. The three presidents in Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy gave various warnings thereafter

#DJTexperiment was fully ‘realized’ … that’s the cheeky response…

muh muh muh great society is when the real ‘grooming’ began…

Obama.

Liberalism is a very aggressive mental disorder.

WWII

Bill Clinton and the ol' hag were a new low that we've never recovered from.

(08-25-2023 11:21 AM)Claw Wrote:  Obama.

Obama and his merry band of radicals is the quick and easiest answer. But they were simply the latest group to resume the task of taking down America, along with Hillary Clinton's gang. Joseph McCarthy was correct but nobody would listen.

(08-25-2023 11:11 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  A series of events that started with Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and accelerated right after WWII. The three presidents in Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy gave various warnings thereafter

That seems a little off---as does the implication of the entire thread subject.

We really were nothing special on the world stage until WWI--perhaps a bit earlier---but not much. Prior to that---we largely were only a real factor in our own corner of the world with little ability (or desire) to project power elsewhere. We reached our Zenith after WWII in the 1990's when we were the only super power in the world.

That said---we remain the worlds top military super power and the top economy in the world----so Im not sure what "falling hard" actually refers to. Yes---we have challengers to that top position---but thats how it works. You dont get to reach the top and just relax---its as challenging to maintain that top position as it is to reach it.

What I think is missing is a driving desire to maintain that top position on a world wide stage. We used to be an optimistic adventurous "can do" society that accomplished big things and believed nothing was beyond our reach. The Panama Canal---landing on the moon---We were not afraid of any challenge. These days---we seem to be afraid of almost any challenge.

Many here would prefer to see the US pull back to our corner of the world and return to a quasi-isolationist foriegn policy---much like the vast majority of Americans preferred prior to WW1 when we largely stuck mostly to matters regarding ourselves or the western hemisphere. Frankly, I'm fairly sympathetic to that idea myself---but my real concern is how easily frightened we as a nation have become. We are becoming a timid people. That does not bode well for our future.

(08-25-2023 11:21 AM)Claw Wrote:  Obama.

Obama was the consummation of a hundred years of Marxist work

Clinton...it became normal to have a sketchy POTUS which ultimately made Trump electable.

In between those you had the biggest spenders in US history under Bush and Obama.

During that time you had unchecked war power and a massive expansion of the welfare state. During this period it became cool to squeeze the middle class and the best distraction were the culture wars that divert attention from the uniparty that runs DC.

Now you have career bureaucrats running the country where they don't do what's best for the country but instead enrich themselves, all while using racism + victim culture wars to create artificial grievances.

Methodical destruction of the family. African-Americans were the Guinea Pigs and at some point in the 90s is was rolled out to the rest of the population.

(08-25-2023 11:50 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 11:11 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  A series of events that started with Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and accelerated right after WWII. The three presidents in Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy gave various warnings thereafter

That seems a little off---as does the implication of the entire thread subject.

We really were nothing special on the world stage until WWI--perhaps a bit earlier---but not much. Prior to that---we largely were only a real factor in our own corner of the world with little ability (or desire) to project power elsewhere. We reached our Zenith after WWII in the 1990's when we were the only super power in the world.

That said---we remain the worlds top military super power and the top economy in the world----so Im not sure what "falling hard" actually refers to. Yes---we have challengers to that top position---but thats how it works. You dont get to reach the top and just relax---its as challenging to maintain that top position as it is to reach it.

Rome reach its height around AD 117 but the real decline if you look at it historically started with the fall of its republic and reign of Augustus Caesar in the 1st century

Imagine a world in which political norms have broken down. Senators use bad faith arguments to block the government from getting anything done. An autocrat rigs elections and gives himself complete control over the government. Even stranger, many voters subscribe to the autocrat’s personality cult and agree that he should have absolute control.

Welcome to Rome in the first century B.C.E. The republic that had existed for over 400 years had finally hit a crisis it couldn’t overcome. Rome itself wouldn’t fall, but during this period it lost its republic forever.

We've had a parade of morons since George HW Bush left office.

No President since has had a meaningful or consistent foreign policy.
No President since has failed to set a new record budget deficit with the sole exception of Clinton and the Gingrich GOP Congress.
No President since has failed to curtail the individual rights and economic freedoms of everyday Americans with the possible sole exception of Bill Clinton ... and getting the DMCA Safe Harbor provisions passed was pretty nice.

The United States use to be in the Top 5 of the Human Freedom Index. Today we're on the verge of dropping out of the Top 25.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/file...x-2022.pdf

Attack, I don't think any of us are interpreting our rise nor fall in regards to our power on a global level. Fall to the Uniparty or Swamp could be more accurate.

(08-25-2023 12:27 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 11:50 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 11:11 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  A series of events that started with Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and accelerated right after WWII. The three presidents in Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy gave various warnings thereafter

That seems a little off---as does the implication of the entire thread subject.

We really were nothing special on the world stage until WWI--perhaps a bit earlier---but not much. Prior to that---we largely were only a real factor in our own corner of the world with little ability (or desire) to project power elsewhere. We reached our Zenith after WWII in the 1990's when we were the only super power in the world.

That said---we remain the worlds top military super power and the top economy in the world----so Im not sure what "falling hard" actually refers to. Yes---we have challengers to that top position---but thats how it works. You dont get to reach the top and just relax---its as challenging to maintain that top position as it is to reach it.

Rome reach its height around AD 117 but the real decline if you look at it historically started with the fall of its republic and reign of Augustus Caesar in the 1st century

Imagine a world in which political norms have broken down. Senators use bad faith arguments to block the government from getting anything done. An autocrat rigs elections and gives himself complete control over the government. Even stranger, many voters subscribe to the autocrat’s personality cult and agree that he should have absolute control.

Welcome to Rome in the first century B.C.E. The republic that had existed for over 400 years had finally hit a crisis it couldn’t overcome. Rome itself wouldn’t fall, but during this period it lost its republic forever.

I get that---but since all our competitors use similar mechanisms to the Federal Reserve---there is nothing about that act that would undermine the existing factors that allowed our rise vs our competitors nor is there anything there that would create a fall vs our competitors. I'd be more apt to agree with you if the reason had reflected something that tended to undermine our basic morality, our work ethic, or our general ability to stay reasonably united as a population (to a degree exceeding what our competitors are experiencing).

My sig says it all.

Moral decay.

(08-25-2023 01:55 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  My sig says it all.

Moral decay.

Hard to argue with that---but I do think the pendulum tends to swing back toward morality once people realize that moral decay and decadence might be fun for a while---but it does not result in a happy life or a world we want to leave to our children.

(08-25-2023 01:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  We've had a parade of morons since George HW Bush left office.

No President since has had a meaningful or consistent foreign policy.
No President since has failed to set a new record budget deficit with the sole exception of Clinton and the Gingrich GOP Congress.
No President since has failed to curtail the individual rights and economic freedoms of everyday Americans with the possible sole exception of Bill Clinton ... and getting the DMCA Safe Harbor provisions passed was pretty nice.

The United States use to be in the Top 5 of the Human Freedom Index. Today we're on the verge of dropping out of the Top 25.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/file...x-2022.pdf

Agreed. In addition, presidents from both parties used to have a common vision for America, albeit two different paths. The past 30 years or so it's been two completely different visions and directions. There no cohesive American policy of any kind any longer.

If there is any specific time frame or not, it boils down to the people being bad citizens. Bad citizens create/tolerate/encourage bad government. And boy, are we going to get what we deserve.

Blaming the politicians is the lazy way to go about things. It’s a democracy. We get what we vote for. They only have the power we allow them to have. No matter what any of the crooks do, it’s still on the people, because we are the ones who will face the consequences of what we voted for, sooner, or later.

When did the American people turn bad? Couldn’t tell you, but look at the mess we have collectively created. Embarrassing.