(08-21-2023 09:22 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  ESPN just needs to use a different model.

They could do more licensing out of events to local TV for broadcast - they do this some, but they could expand to a lot of markets with niche college teams/local stations, same for MLB.

Also, when universities figure out their teams aren't gonna be broadcast nationally, they will renegotiate and reduce fees - which is why the conferences will never be paid more than right now.

The networks are interested in paying up for the CFP and NCAAT. They majority of the money going to G5 and below conferences is through the post season tournaments.

G5's might get a few more million here or there depending on the provider and timing.

But also keep in mind that the average G5 budget is like 40 million compared to the 120 million they spend in the P4. 10 million in TV revenue on a G5 budget is like 30 million to a P4 budget.

You don't have to pay up in the G5 to try and keep up with the P5. A few in the ACC are doing that but the vast majority want to reign in salaries and spend the minimum to attract a quality coach.

(08-21-2023 09:49 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 09:15 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  ESPN+ subscriptions have leveled off and if only 5 million are for the standalone product that is pretty troubling for the DTC.

I don't know, ESPN+ is a product for obsessives and for fans of niche sports. ESPN+ is for seeing Alabama whup up on South Alabama, or for seeing South Alabama vs Georgia Southern. I don't know that gives you insight into how ESPN Flagship DTC does, where people will watch Alabama vs Tennessee.

You can't satisfy all of your sports needs through ESPN by subscribing. You can largely satisfy movies with Netflix. That is where the problem is with DTC because if the consumer has to buy 24.99 ESPN, Peacock, Paramount then subscribe to a 35 dollar sling package for Fox it doesn't get them anywhere.

Depending on viewing habits it makes sense to just buy 1 service and go out to a sports bar if they want to see other games.

(08-21-2023 10:33 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think Disney is looking for an equity-based streaming/tech partner for ESPN versus an outright sale. Apple would make a lot of sense but so would Prime (Amazon) and YoutubeTV (Google). It will be interesting to see what happens.

ESPN is still a very valuable commodity on brand alone despite declining revenues. The value of an equity partner would be to establish streaming dominance for live sports content.

They're apparently talking to Verizon. https://awfulannouncing.com/disney/veriz...aming.html

I don't especially understand the move here -- to me, Disney is the leader in streaming, they've got Disney+, they've got Disney Streaming which used to be BAMTech which used to be MLB Advanced Media. They stream the UFC PPVs.

I'm not 100% clear on what Disney is looking for outside expertise in. But apparently it's stuff Verizon has. (Unless of course it's just a cash-out).

(08-21-2023 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:33 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think Disney is looking for an equity-based streaming/tech partner for ESPN versus an outright sale. Apple would make a lot of sense but so would Prime (Amazon) and YoutubeTV (Google). It will be interesting to see what happens.

ESPN is still a very valuable commodity on brand alone despite declining revenues. The value of an equity partner would be to establish streaming dominance for live sports content.

They're apparently talking to Verizon. https://awfulannouncing.com/disney/veriz...aming.html

I don't especially understand the move here -- to me, Disney is the leader in streaming, they've got Disney+, they've got Disney Streaming which used to be BAMTech which used to be MLB Advanced Media. They stream the UFC PPVs.

I'm not 100% clear on what Disney is looking for outside expertise in. But apparently it's stuff Verizon has. (Unless of course it's just a cash-out).

Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

(08-21-2023 11:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

(08-21-2023 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:33 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think Disney is looking for an equity-based streaming/tech partner for ESPN versus an outright sale. Apple would make a lot of sense but so would Prime (Amazon) and YoutubeTV (Google). It will be interesting to see what happens.

ESPN is still a very valuable commodity on brand alone despite declining revenues. The value of an equity partner would be to establish streaming dominance for live sports content.

They're apparently talking to Verizon. https://awfulannouncing.com/disney/veriz...aming.html

I don't especially understand the move here -- to me, Disney is the leader in streaming, they've got Disney+, they've got Disney Streaming which used to be BAMTech which used to be MLB Advanced Media. They stream the UFC PPVs.

I'm not 100% clear on what Disney is looking for outside expertise in. But apparently it's stuff Verizon has. (Unless of course it's just a cash-out).

I don’t think it’s necessarily expertise, but rather broad distribution that somewhat replicates the cable subscriber fee model for a streaming world. Verizon has 90 million plus customers and if Verizon itself is paying Disney $10 per month for the new ESPN DTC service to provide to their wireless customers, then that’s arguably the closest thing that there is to maintaining the same cable revenue that they have today. These are customers that also aren’t canceling ESPN because the NFL season is over or need to be marketed at all. Instead, the check from Verizon arrives each month whether people use the ESPN service or not… just like cable.

(08-21-2023 11:35 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

(08-21-2023 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:35 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

You're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

(08-21-2023 11:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:33 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think Disney is looking for an equity-based streaming/tech partner for ESPN versus an outright sale. Apple would make a lot of sense but so would Prime (Amazon) and YoutubeTV (Google). It will be interesting to see what happens.

ESPN is still a very valuable commodity on brand alone despite declining revenues. The value of an equity partner would be to establish streaming dominance for live sports content.

They're apparently talking to Verizon. https://awfulannouncing.com/disney/veriz...aming.html

I don't especially understand the move here -- to me, Disney is the leader in streaming, they've got Disney+, they've got Disney Streaming which used to be BAMTech which used to be MLB Advanced Media. They stream the UFC PPVs.

I'm not 100% clear on what Disney is looking for outside expertise in. But apparently it's stuff Verizon has. (Unless of course it's just a cash-out).

I don’t think it’s necessarily expertise, but rather broad distribution that somewhat replicates the cable subscriber fee model for a streaming world. Verizon has 90 million plus customers and if Verizon itself is paying Disney $10 per month for the new ESPN DTC service to provide to their wireless customers, then that’s arguably the closest thing that there is to maintaining the same cable revenue that they have today. These are customers that also aren’t canceling ESPN because the NFL season is over or need to be marketed at all. Instead, the check from Verizon arrives each month whether people use the ESPN service or not… just like cable.

That makes a ton of sense. I don't know if it makes "give them 10% of ESPN" sense, but that becomes a math problem.

(08-21-2023 11:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 10:33 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think Disney is looking for an equity-based streaming/tech partner for ESPN versus an outright sale. Apple would make a lot of sense but so would Prime (Amazon) and YoutubeTV (Google). It will be interesting to see what happens.

ESPN is still a very valuable commodity on brand alone despite declining revenues. The value of an equity partner would be to establish streaming dominance for live sports content.

They're apparently talking to Verizon. https://awfulannouncing.com/disney/veriz...aming.html

I don't especially understand the move here -- to me, Disney is the leader in streaming, they've got Disney+, they've got Disney Streaming which used to be BAMTech which used to be MLB Advanced Media. They stream the UFC PPVs.

I'm not 100% clear on what Disney is looking for outside expertise in. But apparently it's stuff Verizon has. (Unless of course it's just a cash-out).

I don’t think it’s necessarily expertise, but rather broad distribution that somewhat replicates the cable subscriber fee model for a streaming world. Verizon has 90 million plus customers and if Verizon itself is paying Disney $10 per month for the new ESPN DTC service to provide to their wireless customers, then that’s arguably the closest thing that there is to maintaining the same cable revenue that they have today. These are customers that also aren’t canceling ESPN because the NFL season is over or need to be marketed at all. Instead, the check from Verizon arrives each month whether people use the ESPN service or not… just like cable.

Do you have Verizon? They are hemorrhaging subscribers I bet with the alternatives out there now.

I prepay my lines for the year on a third party provider and pay for my phones in full these days.

(08-21-2023 07:39 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  That's true. But it doesn't mean the math maths. You're going to be asking a fraction of ESPN's current subscriber count to pay multiples of what they're paying now. Maybe 20% buy ESPN, then you'd need to charge $10*5 $50 a month. Maybe 33%, so you'd need to charge $30 a month to break even.

Yeah, and $10 a month for cable subscribers is just for ESPN. So if extrapolating out to $50 is just for ESPN, I'm out. $50 for ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, ACC Network, and SEC Network? I'm likely in, but not a slam dunk. For CFB, I'd still really want FS1 and B1G Network. I'd also like to have CBSSN, but I could live without it.

(08-21-2023 11:59 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:35 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

You're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Verizon used to use the NFL has a big selling point

They like the sports fan

(08-21-2023 12:11 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:59 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:35 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:33 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Get Verizon to include ESPN like T Mobile includes Netflix
Guaranteed subscribers.

I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

You're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Verizon used to use the NFL has a big selling point

They like the sports fan

Couldn't have been that big or it wouldn't have gone the way of the dodo.

(08-21-2023 12:47 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:11 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:59 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:35 AM)msu35 Wrote:  I believe you're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

You're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Verizon used to use the NFL has a big selling point

They like the sports fan

Couldn't have been that big or it wouldn't have gone the way of the dodo.

https://variety.com/2021/biz/news/verizo...235059764/

Nope. It was reconfigured. Verizon offers NFL+ now at a nice discount

You can also get free Sunday ticket with Verizon too

(08-21-2023 12:08 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 07:39 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  That's true. But it doesn't mean the math maths. You're going to be asking a fraction of ESPN's current subscriber count to pay multiples of what they're paying now. Maybe 20% buy ESPN, then you'd need to charge $10*5 $50 a month. Maybe 33%, so you'd need to charge $30 a month to break even.

Yeah, and $10 a month for cable subscribers is just for ESPN. So if extrapolating out to $50 is just for ESPN, I'm out. $50 for ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, ACC Network, and SEC Network? I'm likely in, but not a slam dunk. For CFB, I'd still really want FS1 and B1G Network. I'd also like to have CBSSN, but I could live without it.

A sports only OTT is probably the solution. If you can get all of the sports channels and major networks for $45 (including ESPN+) that is reasonable enough.

Hulu right now might be the closest to that but $70 a month plus paying for ESPN+ separately is not a great deal. Better than Comcast sure but anything is better than dealing with their contracts.

(08-21-2023 01:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:47 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:11 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:59 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Eh - Netflix certainly has more casual broader reach, but sports fans are a much more devoted audience that is more likely to make consumer choices based on sports availability.

You're grossly overestimating the desirability of ESPN relative to Netflix, to the general population. Most people couldn't care less about ESPN.

Verizon used to use the NFL has a big selling point

They like the sports fan

Couldn't have been that big or it wouldn't have gone the way of the dodo.

https://variety.com/2021/biz/news/verizo...235059764/

Nope. It was reconfigured. Verizon offers NFL+ now at a nice discount

You can also get free Sunday ticket with Verizon too

Okay, but not the same as bundling it with cell service.

(08-20-2023 11:54 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Maybe Apple will have sense enough to get rid of Mike Greenberg.

That would be a great start but we know he has dirt on all the higher-ups. How else can he possibly still be there?

(08-20-2023 12:58 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 12:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN is the last barrier to ala carte streaming. They are getting $115 a year from cable/satellite/online bundlers. They would need a subscription costing more than $500 a year to make stand alone ESPN work.

Does standalone ESPN = ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, ESPN+ online content, the ESPN app and a 24-team SEC Network ?

Something around $50 a month seems like a decent enough deal all things considered

I can see a lot of people signing up for CFB/NFL seasons and dropping them in January. MLB and NBA won't carry the network in the off months.

(08-20-2023 01:00 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 12:58 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 12:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN is the last barrier to ala carte streaming. They are getting $115 a year from cable/satellite/online bundlers. They would need a subscription costing more than $500 a year to make stand alone ESPN work.

Does standalone ESPN = ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, ESPN+ online content, the ESPN app and a 24-team SEC Network ?

Something around $50 a month seems like a decent enough deal all things considered

If ESPN wants to die, they'll charge $50 for a streaming package. It amazes me that people fail to consider that the significant majority of people who were paying for ESPN via cable didn't care that they had ESPN, let alone watched it.

I think the number was around 20% of subs actually watched the channel.

(08-21-2023 01:44 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 12:58 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 12:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ESPN is the last barrier to ala carte streaming. They are getting $115 a year from cable/satellite/online bundlers. They would need a subscription costing more than $500 a year to make stand alone ESPN work.

Does standalone ESPN = ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews, ESPN+ online content, the ESPN app and a 24-team SEC Network ?

Something around $50 a month seems like a decent enough deal all things considered

I can see a lot of people signing up for CFB/NFL seasons and dropping them in January. MLB and NBA won't carry the network in the off months.

This is what I do. We dropped cable in early-2018. I'll carry whichever live streaming service is offering the best deal that year for CFB.

I do watch a lot of baseball, but I get MLB.TV for free from T-mobile and fortunately playoffs/World Series are going on at the same time as football. I will also do a streaming service in April and/or May for Lightning playoff hockey. So, a max of 6 months, but frequently as little as 4.