(08-14-2023 01:30 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 01:27 PM)msu35 Wrote:  Hmmm, seems that AAC merge might be more and more likely.

You'd better hope he didn't tour the basketball facilities.

I thought it'd be funny when Memphis was forced to go to FAU and UTSA, it'd be hilarious if the PAC4 teams did.

That's all forgiven when you make the Final Four.

SDSU
AFA
SMU
Rice
Tulane
USF
Navy (football only)
Gonzaga (basketball)

If Stanford and Cal are calling the shots, I feel that those would be the realistic candidates. That only gets you to 11 for football, so someone would also need to be added. With larger conferences the wave of the future, they HAVE to go to at least 12. Have to. I would like to see Boise and Memphis added to the list, if they can get over academics. I still think a merger with AAC under Pac 12 banner is a good option as well, with at least SDSU being added.

If academics is their overwhelming criteria, then the choice is easy: PAC4 plus Tulane, Rice, AF, USF, and Navy. A membership roster likely to maximize results on the field and on the court would look different.

(08-14-2023 01:08 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:53 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:48 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Fresno St, Memphis, Navy, Rice, San Diego St, SMU, Tulane, South Florida, UNLV

For academic reasons the three in red aren't going to make the cut. Wyoming has a better shot than UNLV.

Memphis is superior to Boise St. with regards to academics. Fact.

Correct, there are only 3 teams on that list that are true academics, and thats Rice, Tulane and USF.

Rice sucks at football. At this point the league doesnt need anyone else who sucks at football because STanford, Cal, and Or St do a good enough job at that. Or St was at least great this past year.

Memphis is R1 and has great football and basketball, and is in the geographic epicenter of college football viewers and is a huge area for recruits.

SMU is not R1, but has a sh*tton of money. And apparently they can print money better than the Us Government. They are also in Texas, a point I feel I need to make because even some people in Texas apparently dont know that. Their football isnt great, so you are watering that down by adding them.

SDSU is not R1. They are located in southern california, something Stanford and Cal seem to have a boner over. They also had a great run in the NCAA. But if you add them, you are watering down football even more.

Tulane is probably in on academics alone, nevermind the fact that they kicked the PAC champ in the gonads in the NY6 bowl this past year.

USF might be in on academics alone. It would help if their football wasnt mediocre. But they are spending more money than they can afford on a new stadium, so thats another "culture" fit they have with the Pac4.

SDSU did $192M in research this past year. Will be R1 in the next selection window. Location and facilities are a huge plus. San Diego is the country's 5th largest county. Football has been pretty solid since 2010 and BB is one of the top 4 or 5 in the west and has been since before 2010.

As a comparison, the last time data was provided for comparison was in 2021. SDSU at that time did just under $108M in research and ranked 164th in the country in that category. Memphis did just over $67M and ranked 181. SDSU research budget has grown by 77% in the past two years, likely much higher than the average rate. They've done this despite artificial limits put on them by the state, though we are starting to see some easing of that. So, If you think academics are even an issue with SDSU you would be wrong.

(08-14-2023 01:24 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 01:21 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:25 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Fresno St, Memphis, Navy, Rice, San Diego St, SMU, Tulane, South Florida, UNLV

8 of those plus the Pac 4 make a decent conference.

My pick AF, Col St, Fresno, SD State, SMU, Tulane, Navy, and Memphis.

Academically USF is great fit, but really stretches out the Travel on conference that only will get very low double digit tv deal. I don't think rice will get the eyeballs. You could swap Memphis for Boise, but I think Memphis as bigger upside for future TV eyeballs.

I think they stick to 6 total adds to keep the diluation of the current Pac4 teams value as low as possible. Just take the 6 biggest Brands

SDSU
SMU
Boise
Memphis
AF or SCU
Fresno St

That gets them the most money, possibly pushing towards $11 or $12m a year, and at least gives them a chance of retaining A5 status and some preferential treatment in next CFP round in 2026.

The smaller the PAC, the less votes they have to fight losing autonomy status.

Exactly. Each university gets a vote. The Pac 12 will not be a 10 team conference. Number one, they're too vulnerable, and secondly less votes when it comes time to vote on autonomy again.

(08-14-2023 12:09 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:00 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  In about a week huh? Okay.

This board could put together that list in about 10 minutes tops. The list is simple as hell. Getting the P4 to agree who to add from the list and getting enough assurances from TV partners about what that composition would be worth to present to those schools is the hard part. That I question if it can be accomplished in a week, but it's possible.

Right? David could have given him a list of 350 schools in 2 minutes flat.

(08-14-2023 01:01 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stanford and Cal may simply have to be open to the Pac inviting the most valuable football/basketball products available, regardless of academic status and geography, to maximize revenue. They would do so hoping that they (Stanford and Cal) likely will be gone to the Big Ten at some future point anyway.

The "first tier" of the most valuable MWC and AAC schools in terms of a football/basketball combo (budgets, revenues, fan bases, history, national name recognition, TV numbers, etc.) likely comprises San Diego State, SMU and Memphis.

Of course, Stanford and Cal are obsessed with perception and academics, so Memphis will almost certainly not be invited.

I don't know about that. They were also opposed (allegedly) to the Arizonas 45 years ago, yet they eventually helped them both into the AAU. Not that CaliStan need any more Academic accolades, but imagine if they ushered Boise, Fresno St and Memphis into the AAU in 20-30 years.

Ok, ok, I know that's living in a dream world, but still, it could happen!

(08-14-2023 01:33 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  If academics is their overwhelming criteria, then the choice is easy: PAC4 plus Tulane, Rice, AF, USF, and Navy. A membership roster likely to maximize results on the field and on the court would look different.

Those options will definitely be considered by Stanford and Cal, however, I feel certain SDSU will also be added due to geography alone. I hope Boise and Memphis are added to list as well. They really need to go bigger, rather than smaller. More votes to keep autonomy.

(08-14-2023 01:08 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:53 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:48 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Fresno St, Memphis, Navy, Rice, San Diego St, SMU, Tulane, South Florida, UNLV

For academic reasons the three in red aren't going to make the cut. Wyoming has a better shot than UNLV.

Memphis is superior to Boise St. with regards to academics. Fact.

Correct, there are only 3 teams on that list that are true academics, and thats Rice, Tulane and USF.

Rice sucks at football. At this point the league doesnt need anyone else who sucks at football because STanford, Cal, and Or St do a good enough job at that. Or St was at least great this past year.

Memphis is R1 and has great football and basketball, and is in the geographic epicenter of college football viewers and is a huge area for recruits.

SMU is not R1, but has a sh*tton of money. And apparently they can print money better than the Us Government. They are also in Texas, a point I feel I need to make because even some people in Texas apparently dont know that. Their football isnt great, so you are watering that down by adding them.

SDSU is not R1. They are located in southern california, something Stanford and Cal seem to have a boner over. They also had a great run in the NCAA. But if you add them, you are watering down football even more.

Tulane is probably in on academics alone, nevermind the fact that they kicked the PAC champ in the gonads in the NY6 bowl this past year.

USF might be in on academics alone. It would help if their football wasnt mediocre. But they are spending more money than they can afford on a new stadium, so thats another "culture" fit they have with the Pac4.

Oregon St looks to be better this year than last. They have a real coach and a real team, and they're going to have a HUGE chip on their shoulders. I have them on outside looking in of the CFP, but not very far outside of it.

Like others have said, the list of schools that all of the PAC4 could agree on is fairly short:

SMU
Rice
Tulane
Rice
Colorado State
Air Force
Navy
Army
SDSU

Tulsa, UTSA, UNLV, Hawaii, USF, New Mexico and Wyoming could also be approved… but they all would be viewed with a great deal of skepticism by at least two of the members.

I could be wrong but I have a hard time imagining Boise State and Fresno State being approved of by Cal and Stanford. I just don’t see it happening even though athletically, they should be no-brainers.

Then there’s the issue of the media value: will a rebuilt PAC of 16 teams get a payout worth whatever the exits fees can be negotiated down to?

A merger with either the MWC or the AAC seems much more likely in my humble opinion.

Watch Cal and Stanford join the ACC or the B10 later this week LOL.

I find it amusing that people are throwing all of these schools around, yet Luck is visiting FAU. A school no one has on any of their lists. It has to mean something. He's not flying across the country to visit some random school during a critical time, for the fun of it.

(08-14-2023 01:45 PM)msu35 Wrote:  I find it amusing that people are throwing all of these schools around, yet Luck is visiting FAU. A school no one has on any of their lists. It has to mean something. He's not flying across the country to visit some random school during a critical time, for the fun of it.

FAU does have a good market and a lot of potential. If the PAC were to add USF, it would be a good idea to add another Florida team. The PAC should be looking hard in the largest markets (Florida and Texas). Georgia is a hot spot for talent as well.

(08-14-2023 01:43 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  Like others have said, the list of schools that all of the PAC4 could agree on is fairly short:

SMU
Rice
Tulane
Rice
Colorado State
Air Force
Navy
Army
SDSU

Rice is so valuable they are getting two invites!

(08-14-2023 01:45 PM)msu35 Wrote:  I find it amusing that people are throwing all of these schools around, yet Luck is visiting FAU. A school no one has on any of their lists. It has to mean something. He's not flying across the country to visit some random school during a critical time, for the fun of it.

He could have had a previously scheduled speaking engagement. I do think it is good optics for a potential merger though.

(08-14-2023 01:47 PM)PredatorUTEP Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 01:45 PM)msu35 Wrote:  I find it amusing that people are throwing all of these schools around, yet Luck is visiting FAU. A school no one has on any of their lists. It has to mean something. He's not flying across the country to visit some random school during a critical time, for the fun of it.

FAU does have a good market and a lot of potential. If the PAC were to add USF, it would be a good idea to add another Florida team. The PAC should be looking hard in the largest markets (Florida and Texas). Georgia is a hot spot for talent as well.

FAU is on the other side of the country, ranks low in academics and research, has mediocre football, and very modest facilities. They would be near the bottom of the list in any "raid" scenario compared to most schools being thrown about. I believe this indicates Luck is strongly evaluating a merger with the AAC and in my opinion, is the only realistic conclusion to be drawn by Luck's visit.

(08-14-2023 01:35 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 01:08 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:53 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:48 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Fresno St, Memphis, Navy, Rice, San Diego St, SMU, Tulane, South Florida, UNLV

For academic reasons the three in red aren't going to make the cut. Wyoming has a better shot than UNLV.

Memphis is superior to Boise St. with regards to academics. Fact.

Correct, there are only 3 teams on that list that are true academics, and thats Rice, Tulane and USF.

Rice sucks at football. At this point the league doesnt need anyone else who sucks at football because STanford, Cal, and Or St do a good enough job at that. Or St was at least great this past year.

Memphis is R1 and has great football and basketball, and is in the geographic epicenter of college football viewers and is a huge area for recruits.

SMU is not R1, but has a sh*tton of money. And apparently they can print money better than the Us Government. They are also in Texas, a point I feel I need to make because even some people in Texas apparently dont know that. Their football isnt great, so you are watering that down by adding them.

SDSU is not R1. They are located in southern california, something Stanford and Cal seem to have a boner over. They also had a great run in the NCAA. But if you add them, you are watering down football even more.

Tulane is probably in on academics alone, nevermind the fact that they kicked the PAC champ in the gonads in the NY6 bowl this past year.

USF might be in on academics alone. It would help if their football wasnt mediocre. But they are spending more money than they can afford on a new stadium, so thats another "culture" fit they have with the Pac4.

SDSU did $192M in research this past year. Will be R1 in the next selection window. Location and facilities are a huge plus. San Diego is the country's 5th largest county. Football has been pretty solid since 2010 and BB is one of the top 4 or 5 in the west and has been since before 2010.

As a comparison, the last time data was provided for comparison was in 2021. SDSU at that time did just under $108M in research and ranked 164th in the country in that category. Memphis did just over $67M and ranked 181. SDSU research budget has grown by 77% in the past two years, likely much higher than the average rate. They've done this despite artificial limits put on them by the state, though we are starting to see some easing of that. So, If you think academics are even an issue with SDSU you would be wrong.

All I said on your academics is that you are not R1, and you are not Rice, Tulane or Usf.

Your football was solid for MWC quality level, but you really dont know how good they are nationally until they play teams east of the Mississippi river. A couple of comparisons would be:

1. Memphis destroyed Utah St despite both having the same record and Memphis being mediocre this past year.

2. Boise St, the MWC champ with a 10-3 record, struggled to a 3 point win over N Texas who was 6-7 and barely bowl eligible.

(08-14-2023 12:50 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:25 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(08-14-2023 12:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Fresno St, Memphis, Navy, Rice, San Diego St, SMU, Tulane, South Florida, UNLV

8 of those plus the Pac 4 make a decent conference.

My pick AF, Col St, Fresno, SD State, SMU, Tulane, Navy, and Memphis.

Academically USF is great fit, but really stretches out the Travel on conference that only will get very low double digit tv deal. I don't think rice will get the eyeballs. You could swap Memphis for Boise, but I think Memphis as bigger upside for future TV eyeballs.

I think hell freezes over before Fresno or Boise get accepted by CalFord, and can't see Memphis being accepted either. When you take those 3 out and sub in Rice it becomes a far less appealing athletic conference, but that is what it is.

You may think that California would vote Boise State in since it would give the 2 northwest schools another team in the northwest. I think the best way is for the other three P4 to tell Stanford to stop being too snobbish because it what put them there in the 1st place.

These are the 12 schools if I am in charge for the PAC 4 to look at.

Boise State
Fresno State
San Diego State
UNR
Utah State
Air Force (better football product and is a national brand)
SMU
UTSA
Tulane
Memphis
North Dakota State
Buffalo
Ohio U.
ODU
USF

Don't bring value.
San Jose State
North Texas (duplicate tv market)
UNLV (one of the lowest rated teams in the MWC)
Rice (no fan support, very poor ratings)
Tulsa (school is way too small)
Charlotte (too green in football)
USF (no stadium)
Hawaii (no stadium)
Wyoming (small market)
New Mexico
ECU (hard to get to)
Temple (well get overlooked because they got kicked out of a Power conference in the past)
Gonzaga (academics)

Again, if there is a merger, there will have to be scheduling concessions.

You can put the PAC4 in a section that includes Rice/Tulane, for balance or whatever.

The other sections could be as follows:

Central: SMU, Memphis, Tulsa UTSA, UNT, UAB

East: Navy, Temple, USF, FAU, Charlotte, ECU

Then protect: Stanford/Cal vs USF/Temple or Navy

This is the best way I can see it. However, I'm not sure how the travel is subsidized for USF/Temple, but they'd play Stanford and Navy every year.

It's just baffling to me that it has to be all or nothing. If you have a league with Cal, Stanford, Rice, Tulane, SMU, maybe USF, your smart little fella credentials are solidly established. That's a better haul than most leagues. At that point it would behoove you to pick up the Memphis and Boise brands + fan bases and whoever else your media partner will accommodate. This would accomplish a wild thing called making the best possible league out of a bad situation instead of catering to the self destructive impulses that led to this predicament, and would also decapitate the two leagues with any hope of challenging the PAC.

Instead people are 100% assuming Rice is about to jump Boise State, and while the groupthink in realignment is out of this world it might not be wrong.

(08-14-2023 01:58 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's just baffling to me that it has to be all or nothing. If you have a league with Cal, Stanford, Rice, Tulane, SMU, maybe USF, your smart little fella credentials are solidly established. That's a better haul than most leagues. At that point it would behoove you to pick up the Memphis and Boise brands + fan bases and whoever else your media partner will accommodate. This would accomplish a wild thing called making the best possible league out of a bad situation instead of catering to the self destructive impulses that led to this predicament, and would also decapitate the two leagues with any hope of challenging the PAC.

Instead people are 100% assuming Rice is about to jump Boise State, and while the groupthink in realignment is out of this world it might not be wrong.

PAC will add Rice for more or less the same reasons the AAC did.