(08-05-2023 12:17 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 10:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stanford has one of the best, if not the best, Olympic sports offerings in the country, annually training and developing current and future Olympians in many sports. Even with MWC merge/callups, several sports are very much in danger: rowing, beach volleyball, indoor track, womens lacrosse, etc.

I can’t see Stanford getting left behind.

It's about TV and people who didn't go to Stanford don't watch Stanford.

When Stanford was winning? The ratings were high. When they were losing? The ratings tanked. Jim Harbaugh days at Stanford was their high years, and now they are down.

(08-05-2023 01:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 01:18 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  When a conference ceases to exist (not legally, as it could be years before it formally closes shop) as an NCAA conference, the credits revert to the schools that earned them. Below is the relevant list for those joining new conferences on August 2nd, 2024.

2024
TBD
2023 Pac-12 total (7)
Arizona (1)
Arizona State (2)
UCLA (3)
USC (1)
2022 Pac-12 total (7)
UCLA (3)
Arizona (3)
USC (1)
2021 Pac-12 total (18)
USC (4)
Oregon (3)
Colorado (2)
UCLA (5)
Oregon State (4)
2020
not held (Covid-19)

Chart of credits each school will receive distributions from.
Note: the amount of money goes up each year. They're not quite equal value.
Note: 2024 tournament not yet added in (obviously)

If one unit is worth $350K and the minimum units for the PAC will be 34 units in 2025, then there is a good financial incentive to rebuild or merge the PAC. It’s $4M to each of the four remaining PAC programs during 2025.

Obviously, any remaining program still has to take any lifeline to a P4 conference. But the PAC shouldn’t die as an NCAA conference until everybody has a home. If the process works efficiently (say that Stanford & Cal accept a B1G invite at a highly reduced payout amount), the last two legacy PAC programs can hopefully use the NCAA revenue to buy-in their way into the P4. In other words, WSU and OSU’s best leverage is to not allow departing members to dissolve the PAC.

That money pales compared to the $70M owed to Comcast. If you are sticking for the credits, then you are sticking for the Comcast bill as well.

Nobody is staying. The Conference will not be rebuilt because it cannot pay the exit fees for any AAC or MWC school that might be enticed to join. The Pac-12 will attempt to liquidate as many of it's assets as it can by August 1st, 2024 and transfer as much money as it can to the pension funds (or just pay the matching for 401K right up front) outside the Pac-12 so that office staff are taken care of. Because the creditors will be knocking at the door, Comcast first in line. They will wind up declaring bankruptcy and selling off whatever assets are left, from office chairs to Pac-12 logo rights, in auction to give whatever restitution is possible to creditors.

Only a fool would stay behind in that mess for basketball credits, which will be claimed by creditors.

(08-05-2023 09:23 AM)Huan Wrote:  Why not merge with the AAC, they have 3 AAU: USF, Tulane and Rice, as well as being in Florida, Texas and add California.

Everyone that thinks that the pac12 has the ability to be academically snobbish at this point is not thinking clearly. Memphis is the only one of any of the g5s that's been to final fours national championship games and basketball bowls. The pac12 is in need of programs that are fully invested in athletes, bring in a market. Are they AAU,,,nope, but they are an R1 research institution. It's not elite but that’s not chopped liver either.

(08-05-2023 03:13 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 09:23 AM)Huan Wrote:  Why not merge with the AAC, they have 3 AAU: USF, Tulane and Rice, as well as being in Florida, Texas and add California.

Everyone that thinks that the pac12 has the ability to be academically snobbish at this point is not thinking clearly. Memphis is the only one of any of the g5s that's been to final fours national championship games and basketball bowls. The pac12 is in need of programs that are fully invested in athletes, bring in a market. Are they AAU,,,nope, but they are an R1 research institution. It's not elite but that’s not chopped liver either.

Do they still count if they're all vacated. Asking for a friend.

(08-05-2023 03:38 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 03:13 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 09:23 AM)Huan Wrote:  Why not merge with the AAC, they have 3 AAU: USF, Tulane and Rice, as well as being in Florida, Texas and add California.

Everyone that thinks that the pac12 has the ability to be academically snobbish at this point is not thinking clearly. Memphis is the only one of any of the g5s that's been to final fours national championship games and basketball bowls. The pac12 is in need of programs that are fully invested in athletes, bring in a market. Are they AAU,,,nope, but they are an R1 research institution. It's not elite but that’s not chopped liver either.

Do they still count if they're all vacated. Asking for a friend.

If you slept with Beyonce would it still count even if she caught you cheating and dumped you.

(08-05-2023 10:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stanford has one of the best, if not the best, Olympic sports offerings in the country, annually training and developing current and future Olympians in many sports. Even with MWC merge/callups, several sports are very much in danger: rowing, beach volleyball, indoor track, womens lacrosse, etc.

I can’t see Stanford getting left behind.

So? Problem is none of that pays the bills. May not be right or fair, but rowing, beach volleyball, woman's lacrosse etc could fold and disappear tomorrow and most would not realize it, or frankly care, even if they noticed. Being good at the nonrevenue sports isn't going to do anything to help Stanford land in a good conference. It's all about what kind of money you can bring to the conference, and even with their Olympic successes, they just don't move the TV/streaming needle.

(08-05-2023 08:18 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 10:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stanford has one of the best, if not the best, Olympic sports offerings in the country, annually training and developing current and future Olympians in many sports. Even with MWC merge/callups, several sports are very much in danger: rowing, beach volleyball, indoor track, womens lacrosse, etc.

I can’t see Stanford getting left behind.

So? Problem is none of that pays the bills. May not be right or fair, but rowing, beach volleyball, woman's lacrosse etc could fold and disappear tomorrow and most would not realize it, or frankly care, even if they noticed. Being good at the nonrevenue sports isn't going to do anything to help Stanford land in a good conference. It's all about what kind of money you can bring to the conference, and even with their Olympic successes, they just don't move the TV/streaming needle.

What a beautiful thing it would be if schools started worrying about all the athletes and the importance of team building and how that learned skill serves them out there in the real world.

(08-05-2023 08:49 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 08:18 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 10:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stanford has one of the best, if not the best, Olympic sports offerings in the country, annually training and developing current and future Olympians in many sports. Even with MWC merge/callups, several sports are very much in danger: rowing, beach volleyball, indoor track, womens lacrosse, etc.

I can’t see Stanford getting left behind.

So? Problem is none of that pays the bills. May not be right or fair, but rowing, beach volleyball, woman's lacrosse etc could fold and disappear tomorrow and most would not realize it, or frankly care, even if they noticed. Being good at the nonrevenue sports isn't going to do anything to help Stanford land in a good conference. It's all about what kind of money you can bring to the conference, and even with their Olympic successes, they just don't move the TV/streaming needle.

What a beautiful thing it would be if schools started worrying about all the athletes and the importance of team building and how that learned skill serves them out there in the real world.

That's the case at most schools in most sports, but CFB and MBB in D1 pays the bills for those other sports.

(08-05-2023 08:49 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 08:18 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 10:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stanford has one of the best, if not the best, Olympic sports offerings in the country, annually training and developing current and future Olympians in many sports. Even with MWC merge/callups, several sports are very much in danger: rowing, beach volleyball, indoor track, womens lacrosse, etc.

I can’t see Stanford getting left behind.

So? Problem is none of that pays the bills. May not be right or fair, but rowing, beach volleyball, woman's lacrosse etc could fold and disappear tomorrow and most would not realize it, or frankly care, even if they noticed. Being good at the nonrevenue sports isn't going to do anything to help Stanford land in a good conference. It's all about what kind of money you can bring to the conference, and even with their Olympic successes, they just don't move the TV/streaming needle.

What a beautiful thing it would be if schools started worrying about all the athletes and the importance of team building and how that learned skill serves them out there in the real world.

Sure would be. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in any more, if we ever did.

(08-05-2023 11:53 AM)clunk Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:48 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Stanford, Cal, OSU and WSU could still rebuild the PAC. Ask the NCAA for a one year waiver in conference membership requirements (during the upcoming 2024-2025 season). Sign a five year GOR and start inviting MWC and AAC programs ASAP…SDSU and SMU are already vetted; Tulane, Colorado State and Air Force in a second wave; and Gonzaga & Hawaii in a third expansion. There are enough pieces available to rebuild.

The remaining four programs get the earned PAC’s NCAA credits to smooth their descent into a lower media revenue tier through the next six years. The call-ups get increases in media payouts. Their odds of getting a top 6 finish for the CFP automatic invitation is really good. This gives Kliavkoff something to do over the next few years.

If Stanford and Cal eventually get invited into the B1G, the remaining PAC programs still have good options…Fresno State, Boise State and Memphis are now in the footprint and more likely candidates.

If I'm a potential call up I NEED to see a signed media offer before I believe that.

If you are SDSU, would you rather be in League A

Cal
Stanford
WSU
OSU
SDSU
SMU
Hawaii/Gonzaga
Rice
Tulane
Colorado State

Or the current MW (option B)?

I'm taking option A every time.

(08-05-2023 09:22 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:53 AM)clunk Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:48 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Stanford, Cal, OSU and WSU could still rebuild the PAC. Ask the NCAA for a one year waiver in conference membership requirements (during the upcoming 2024-2025 season). Sign a five year GOR and start inviting MWC and AAC programs ASAP…SDSU and SMU are already vetted; Tulane, Colorado State and Air Force in a second wave; and Gonzaga & Hawaii in a third expansion. There are enough pieces available to rebuild.

The remaining four programs get the earned PAC’s NCAA credits to smooth their descent into a lower media revenue tier through the next six years. The call-ups get increases in media payouts. Their odds of getting a top 6 finish for the CFP automatic invitation is really good. This gives Kliavkoff something to do over the next few years.

If Stanford and Cal eventually get invited into the B1G, the remaining PAC programs still have good options…Fresno State, Boise State and Memphis are now in the footprint and more likely candidates.

If I'm a potential call up I NEED to see a signed media offer before I believe that.

If you are SDSU, would you rather be in League A

Cal
Stanford
WSU
OSU
SDSU
SMU
Hawaii/Gonzaga
Rice
Tulane
Colorado State

Or the current MW (option B)?

I'm taking option A every time.

Every time I see a mish-mash conflagration like this it assures me people don't understand that a $18-34M buy-out is a poison pill to prevent league departures.

(08-05-2023 11:53 AM)clunk Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:48 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Stanford, Cal, OSU and WSU could still rebuild the PAC. Ask the NCAA for a one year waiver in conference membership requirements (during the upcoming 2024-2025 season). Sign a five year GOR and start inviting MWC and AAC programs ASAP…SDSU and SMU are already vetted; Tulane, Colorado State and Air Force in a second wave; and Gonzaga & Hawaii in a third expansion. There are enough pieces available to rebuild.

The remaining four programs get the earned PAC’s NCAA credits to smooth their descent into a lower media revenue tier through the next six years. The call-ups get increases in media payouts. Their odds of getting a top 6 finish for the CFP automatic invitation is really good. This gives Kliavkoff something to do over the next few years.

If Stanford and Cal eventually get invited into the B1G, the remaining PAC programs still have good options…Fresno State, Boise State and Memphis are now in the footprint and more likely candidates.

If I'm a potential call up I NEED to see a signed media offer before I believe that.

The PAC right now:
- four teams that are about as disparate in the conference as could be: CaliStan and the xSUs.
- no media deal to offer to potential new members
- $50M in debt to Comcast (because of billing mistake)
- $24.2M in assets (per 2021 IRS Form 990)
- whatever NCAAT credits they have

Who in their right mind is jumping into that.

And jumping to that right after doing an $18-34M buy-out payment!

(08-05-2023 09:22 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:53 AM)clunk Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 11:48 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Stanford, Cal, OSU and WSU could still rebuild the PAC. Ask the NCAA for a one year waiver in conference membership requirements (during the upcoming 2024-2025 season). Sign a five year GOR and start inviting MWC and AAC programs ASAP…SDSU and SMU are already vetted; Tulane, Colorado State and Air Force in a second wave; and Gonzaga & Hawaii in a third expansion. There are enough pieces available to rebuild.

The remaining four programs get the earned PAC’s NCAA credits to smooth their descent into a lower media revenue tier through the next six years. The call-ups get increases in media payouts. Their odds of getting a top 6 finish for the CFP automatic invitation is really good. This gives Kliavkoff something to do over the next few years.

If Stanford and Cal eventually get invited into the B1G, the remaining PAC programs still have good options…Fresno State, Boise State and Memphis are now in the footprint and more likely candidates.

If I'm a potential call up I NEED to see a signed media offer before I believe that.

If you are SDSU, would you rather be in League A

Cal
Stanford
WSU
OSU
SDSU
SMU
Hawaii/Gonzaga
Rice
Tulane
Colorado State

Or the current MW (option B)?

I'm taking option A every time.

Just how exactly do you intend to assemble this Superfriends conference without a media deal?
I'm taking option B every time since option A simply doesn't exist.

Sounds like Apple is still interested and even if the per-school payout drops from $25M (last offer on the table before yesterday’s exodus) to say $15-17M, yes you are going to get the interest of AAC teams in 2024 who can make up the exit fee in 2-3 years, as well as MWCs in 2025 who won’t have to fork over that $34M if they give longer notice..

4 AACs keeps the lights on in 2024 and back up to 12 teams in 2025z

(08-05-2023 10:05 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Sounds like Apple is still interested and even if the per-school payout drops from $25M (last offer on the table before yesterday’s exodus) to say $15-17M, yes you are going to get the interest of AAC teams in 2024 who can make up the exit fee in 2-3 years, as well as MWCs in 2025 who won’t have to fork over that $34M if they give longer notice..

4 AACs keeps the lights on in 2024 and back up to 12 teams in 2025z

SMU, Tulane, Rice, Navy/Gonzaga in 2024

SDSU, Air Force, Colorado St, Boise St in 2025

(08-05-2023 10:05 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Sounds like Apple is still interested and even if the per-school payout drops from $25M (last offer on the table before yesterday’s exodus) to say $15-17M, yes you are going to get the interest of AAC teams in 2024 who can make up the exit fee in 2-3 years, as well as MWCs in 2025 who won’t have to fork over that $34M if they give longer notice..

4 AACs keeps the lights on in 2024 and back up to 12 teams in 2025z

The ESPN contrat is based on certain schools being in it and one of those schools was Memphis. The other three are now in the big12. If the pac12 had any business sense they'd expand eastward into a part of the country that is football crazy while destroying the AACs contract and daytime timeslots. Memphis, New Orleans, Tampa and Dallas and San Diego are not to shabby. Big12 level no but adequate. Keep a decent chunk of the apple deal and then see if a network is willing to throw it a flyer. Heck NBC may even be willing to pay for a few games around Notre Dame or some extra inventory for the weeks when they are on other networks. The pac12s p5 status is contractually guaranteed.

(08-05-2023 11:10 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(08-05-2023 10:05 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Sounds like Apple is still interested and even if the per-school payout drops from $25M (last offer on the table before yesterday’s exodus) to say $15-17M, yes you are going to get the interest of AAC teams in 2024 who can make up the exit fee in 2-3 years, as well as MWCs in 2025 who won’t have to fork over that $34M if they give longer notice..

4 AACs keeps the lights on in 2024 and back up to 12 teams in 2025z

The ESPN contrat is based on certain schools being in it and one of those schools was Memphis. The other three are now in the big12. If the pac12 had any business sense they'd expand eastward into a part of the country that is football crazy while destroying the AACs contract and daytime timeslots. Memphis, New Orleans, Tampa and Dallas and San Diego are not to shabby. Big12 level no but adequate. Keep a decent chunk of the apple deal and then see if a network is willing to throw it a flyer. Heck NBC may even be willing to pay for a few games around Notre Dame or some extra inventory for the weeks when they are on other networks. The pac12s p5 status is contractually guaranteed.

It would be far better for those schools to be ACC bound before joining the remaining PAC schools but Phillips lacks vision

Was thinking about this debt to Comcast and the lack of exit fee.

In total, doesn't the PAC 12 distribute around $400M annually including from all revenue sources (not just TV)? Is the PAC really going to distribute revenues next year to the schools that are leaving? If so, the PAC had the worst by-laws in the history of college sports with respect to preservation of the property. If not then Comcast problem could be solved if PAC can acquire enough teams to keep the league afloat.