(07-25-2023 11:02 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Anyone remember the Pyramid and the amenities it was supposed to feature…
glass outdoor elevator
Hard Rock Cafe
Completely interactive
Holograms
Theme parks

& the university had 18 million burning a hole in its pocket that it had been gifted by the state to construct an on-campus basketball facility… that it foolishly handed over to the city.

The Pyramid ended up being built on the cheap & few of the promises made were kept.

Dover built the elevator. The city ended up not paying for it, so they never installed it.
Good Ol Sidney.

And yet, we had a thread with a thousand posts discussing ideas about spending some of the money for minor league soccer.

(07-25-2023 11:02 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Anyone remember the Pyramid and the amenities it was supposed to feature…
glass outdoor elevator
Hard Rock Cafe
Completely interactive
Holograms
Theme parks

& the university had 18 million burning a hole in its pocket that it had been gifted by the state to construct an on-campus basketball facility… that it foolishly handed over to the city.

The Pyramid ended up being built on the cheap & few of the promises made were kept.

There was going to be the rock and roll hall of fame there to if I remember correctly.

The state gave the University $8M. It grew to $10M by the time the city strongarmed the money away from the University.

I thought it was the college football HOF. It is criminal that the R&R HOF a is in Cleveland and not Memphis.

(07-25-2023 11:45 AM)Southaven Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 11:02 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Anyone remember the Pyramid and the amenities it was supposed to feature…
glass outdoor elevator
Hard Rock Cafe
Completely interactive
Holograms
Theme parks

& the university had 18 million burning a hole in its pocket that it had been gifted by the state to construct an on-campus basketball facility… that it foolishly handed over to the city.

The Pyramid ended up being built on the cheap & few of the promises made were kept.

There was going to be the rock and roll hall of fame there to if I remember correctly.

The state gave the University $8M. It grew to $10M by the time the city strongarmed the money away from the University.

I remember it as $7M growing to $9M, but close enough for government work.

Yeah, history lesson here...

Both Memphis State (for purpose of clarity) and UT needed additional seating capacity.

After much deliberation, it was decided that the state would give Memphis State $7M to either:
1. Expand the Coliseum
2. Contribute to another arena

$7M was nowhere near close to what it would cost to increase the capacity at the MSC.

By the time the Pyramid option rolled around interest had caused the $7M to increase to $9M. That's the amount Memphis State gave to the city.


Oh, and UT got a brand new arena -- TWICE.

The original price of Thompson Boling Arena was $24M. But there were serious site problems which required the building to be partially deconstructed and built again. The final cost: $40 million.

State Funds for Men's Basketball Arena

• Memphis State - $7M
• UT - $40M
  

Per wikipedia -- Construction cost: $40 million; ($103 million in 2022 dollars)

The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

100% wrong

they almost always favor the professional sports franchises vs. college

see Nashville

(07-25-2023 12:04 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 11:45 AM)Southaven Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 11:02 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Anyone remember the Pyramid and the amenities it was supposed to feature…
glass outdoor elevator
Hard Rock Cafe
Completely interactive
Holograms
Theme parks

& the university had 18 million burning a hole in its pocket that it had been gifted by the state to construct an on-campus basketball facility… that it foolishly handed over to the city.

The Pyramid ended up being built on the cheap & few of the promises made were kept.

There was going to be the rock and roll hall of fame there to if I remember correctly.

The state gave the University $8M. It grew to $10M by the time the city strongarmed the money away from the University.

I remember it as $7M growing to $9M, but close enough for government work.

Yeah, history lesson here...

Both Memphis State (for purpose of clarity) and UT needed additional seating capacity.

After much deliberation, it was decided that the state would give Memphis State $7M to either:
1. Expand the Coliseum
2. Contribute to another arena

$7M was nowhere near close to what it would cost to increase the capacity at the MSC.

By the time the Pyramid option rolled around interest had caused the $7M to increase to $9M. That's the amount Memphis State gave to the city.


Oh, and UT got a brand new arena -- TWICE.

The original price of Thompson Boling Arena was $24M. But there were serious site problems which required the building to be partially deconstructed and built again. The final cost: $40 million.

State Funds for Men's Basketball Arena

• Memphis State - $7M
• UT - $40M
  

Per wikipedia -- Construction cost: $40 million; ($103 million in 2022 dollars)

And still ain’t made it to the Final 4

Wasn't there talk about the city applying for a rental car surcharge or sales tax rebates to supplement the $350M from the state? They can use as many revenue streams as they can find. I haven't seen any estimates on what it will take to upgrade the FedEx Forum, but isn't the Liberty Bowl (sorry, can't get used to calling it anything else) going to take upwards of $200M? Could the $50M that the Grizzlies have said they will put up be combined with $100-150M from the state, leaving the LB with the rest? Where would this leave the 901FC? If the Forum and LB are going to take most/all of the $350M, I don't see where the funds are coming from for a soccer stadium.

(07-25-2023 01:52 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

100% wrong

they almost always favor the professional sports franchises vs. college

see Nashville

You seem to be talking in general or about Nashville where there was a big push to the benefit of the pro franchises. I'm talking about state funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis. Maybe I missed some mention of it, but I take the CA & don't recall seeing anything related to state politicians proposing forum funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis.

(07-25-2023 02:35 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:52 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

100% wrong

they almost always favor the professional sports franchises vs. college

see Nashville

You seem to be talking in general or about Nashville where there was a big push to the benefit of the pro franchises. I'm talking about state funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis. Maybe I missed some mention of it, but I take the CA & don't recall seeing anything related to state politicians proposing forum funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis.

Well, just read the last quote from the OP, post #1.

But the reality is the reality. And the reality is that the Grizzlies have to be the priority here. It’s not just the most important franchise in the city — it’s the only one that can leave.

(07-25-2023 03:50 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 02:35 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:52 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

100% wrong

they almost always favor the professional sports franchises vs. college

see Nashville

You seem to be talking in general or about Nashville where there was a big push to the benefit of the pro franchises. I'm talking about state funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis. Maybe I missed some mention of it, but I take the CA & don't recall seeing anything related to state politicians proposing forum funding to keep the Grizzlies in Memphis.

Well, just read the last quote from the OP, post #1.

But the reality is the reality. And the reality is that the Grizzlies have to be the priority here. It’s not just the most important franchise in the city — it’s the only one that can leave.

I understand many consider the Grizzlies most important. That is not my point. My point is that I have not seen state politicians quoted as saying funding for the Grizzlies is the primary focus of the legislation they supported & passed for the Memphis athletics facilities. In fact the funding legislation, as I recall, initially was titled as funding for LB renovations but later changed to Memphis athletic facilities funding & that articles written & statement made by state politicians prioritized funding "to help the Univ of Memphis gain P5 status".

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

You said the school never lobbied, the city and the city never lobbied the state...then argued the exact opposite, then there wouldn't be money, it wouldn't be approved, it would be done cheaply...

Quote:The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants

Now you are back on track. Happiness.

(07-25-2023 02:35 PM)jammaster Wrote:  Wasn't there talk about the city applying for a rental car surcharge or sales tax rebates to supplement the $350M from the state? They can use as many revenue streams as they can find. I haven't seen any estimates on what it will take to upgrade the FedEx Forum, but isn't the Liberty Bowl (sorry, can't get used to calling it anything else) going to take upwards of $200M? Could the $50M that the Grizzlies have said they will put up be combined with $100-150M from the state, leaving the LB with the rest? Where would this leave the 901FC? If the Forum and LB are going to take most/all of the $350M, I don't see where the funds are coming from for a soccer stadium.

Yes.

What have the grizzlies said about this? Have they said they want some fraction of the 350 million? Have they said they wanted all of the 350 million? Have they made any statement at all? I haven't heard anything.

(07-25-2023 08:30 AM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 08:21 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 07:41 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Life as a renter & why the oncampus stadium was the only way to truly secure a Big 12 bid….

Every dollar that goes into FedExForum can’t go into Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium. Every dollar that goes into Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium can’t go into FedExForum.

And now, according to my colleague Sam Hardiman, “back-of-the-napkin math would cast doubt at whether there is enough money in the city’s funding package for both of Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium and FedExForum renovations.”

But the reality is the reality. And the reality is that the Grizzlies have to be the priority here. It’s not just the most important franchise in the city — it’s the only one that can leave.




https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/sec...um-funding

And as soon as contract allows they will leave for a bigger market.

So take care of the ones that you know will always be here.

Disagree, they’ve had chances to leave before and didn’t. There is going to be another round of NBA expansion which will include Vegas and Seattle, once that happens then the chances of a team relocating shrink dramatically. If there was ever a team that was more in danger of losing its franchise it would be Portland or New Orleans

They can’t leave scotfree for another few years.

I felt from the start 350M was a lowball number. Hell it is low for either LB or the Forum. No way you can do either project for that. Why do you think the state legislature ok'ed the package so fast. They knew we were asking for to little money, and they were getting a bargain. I would guess the Forum will get the biggest chunk of that money, and then some.

(07-25-2023 04:13 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 01:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants, in this case to keep the Grizzlies happy. But based upon the premise of the state support voted to help our university (there was virtually no state political support voiced in support of keeping the Grizzlies happy), I'm thinking the university could demand an acceptable portion of the funds be guaranteed for the LB through state action - if the university is willing to be aggressive (not likely). Or better yet have the state funding apportioned & designated for either LB upgrades or set aside directly for an OCS - at the discretion of the university.

One thing for certain, state funding usage has been very quiet since approved.

You said the school never lobbied, the city and the city never lobbied the state...then argued the exact opposite, then there wouldn't be money, it wouldn't be approved, it would be done cheaply...

Quote:The entire potential suggested by this article is just another chapter of the city using our university for what the city wants

Now you are back on track. Happiness.

Still lying & embellishing - I have never said anything about the city not lobbying the state(it's the city's job to lobby) & my statement above clearly said the university "could..." & further stated "not likely..." I understand that's a nuisance in your world of misstatement & embellishment but I suppose you have to find something to argue about since you have no clue about discussion & how it differs.

(07-25-2023 10:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(07-25-2023 10:28 AM)bluecrew Wrote:  The City has taken the University for granted for far too long. Their neglect has damaged what could have been a huge jewel/cash cow for the community. The city’s “leadership” over the last 40 years has been absolutely abysmal.

The city is only going to look out for the city; so in all honesty, its the university’s leadership that’s lacking… they continually get duped into these public/private boondoggles & never act in the school’s best interest. As a result, the school is continually left behind by its peers. It’s pitiful actually. At some point, Charlie Brown has got to eventually realize Lucy is going to yank the football away.

Also true. Very, very sad but also very true

according to the city doing FedExForum, The Liberty Bowl, a new Soccer Stadium, and an Autozone Park renovation would be ~650 million total...the State is giving 350 million. I would imagine if the Soccer stadium is put on hold along with Autozone Park there would be enough for FEF and the Liberty Bowl.

I mean, what kind of renovation are the Grizz wanting? Does an 18 year old arena need more than say 99 million in upgrades? that would leave 251 million. so 200 million for the Liberty Bowl and still like 51 million for AZP.