I had a response to JR in another thread that he thought Trump was "absolutely" innocent of all the charges to this point, so I wanted to point something out that has been bothering me for a long time. I decided to start a new thread as I think that thread is probably being ignored by this point.

And... to be clear, this is anecdotal as I don't have the links any longer that backs up what I type here, so take it as you will.

---------------

While you guys may be correct on Russiagate, and even potentially the classified documents (although I still think Trump is guilty on that), what do you think about the fact that someone within Trump's orbit was most certainly feeding the Qanon sites with plans months in advance of election day? I read as early as September of 2020 almost an exact plan for how things would go down post election day should Trump lose up through having the election not certified and having it go back to the states, which greater than 50% were controlled by Republicans.

I'm not saying it was DJT, as I don't know what kind of evidence is out there to connect him directly (I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been clued in, however). I do find it very concerning that someone within the campaign was feeding the scenario to those groups because they wanted them to show up on January 6th. The only thing that didn't go exactly as the scenario I read was Pence not following through on refusing to certify.

I wish I had the links now, I had a buddy who got deep into the whole Qanon thing that sent me the info and said "this is how we are going to keep Trump president." I thought he was totally full of it until January 6th actually happened. He even helped organize pro-Trump rallies around Ohio (one of them was a convoy of pro-Trump people flying their flags and driving the loop around Cincinnati). Sadly he completely disassociated with our whole group of friends after Biden was inaugurated and nobody has heard from him since.

That being said, if I knew and all these other people knew then most certainly Pelosi and other people in Congress knew and they didn't do their part to secure the capital ahead of time. They clearly wanted the riot to happen so they could get Trump disqualified from running for office again.

So, at the end of the day, isn't anyone else upset that the guy whose campaign tried to bypass the constitution is likely the Republican nominee and is running against the Democratic nominee who had operatives in congress to made sure that a plan that was well documented get ALMOST to the end for political points. They allowed a woman to get killed in the capital because they didn't secure it properly ahead of time and threw our country into greater turmoil than any other point in my lifetime.

I'd really just like to throw both candidates out and start fresh, but I know that won't happen. It just bugs me that both sides don't see the fact that both parties are the problem. There is no lesser of 2 evils, there are just 2 evils. Everything is done for political points now with zero cares for who gets hurt due to the hateful rhetoric they use towards each other.

I'll step off my soap box now.

Put my vote in the I don't care column.

There are many worse things that happen every day than a bunch of middle-aged people walking around the capital on January 6th, breaking a couple of windows, and sitting at Nancy's desk.

Of course he knew about it. Hell I knew about it. Did either of us organize it? Were either of us involved in it?

Dont care

(07-19-2023 11:20 AM)mlb Wrote:  I had a response to JR in another thread that he thought Trump was "absolutely" innocent of all the charges to this point, so I wanted to point something out that has been bothering me for a long time. I decided to start a new thread as I think that thread is probably being ignored by this point.

And... to be clear, this is anecdotal as I don't have the links any longer that backs up what I type here, so take it as you will.

---------------

While you guys may be correct on Russiagate, and even potentially the classified documents (although I still think Trump is guilty on that), what do you think about the fact that someone within Trump's orbit was most certainly feeding the Qanon sites with plans months in advance of election day? I read as early as September of 2020 almost an exact plan for how things would go down post election day should Trump lose up through having the election not certified and having it go back to the states, which greater than 50% were controlled by Republicans.

I'm not saying it was DJT, as I don't know what kind of evidence is out there to connect him directly (I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been clued in, however). I do find it very concerning that someone within the campaign was feeding the scenario to those groups because they wanted them to show up on January 6th. The only thing that didn't go exactly as the scenario I read was Pence not following through on refusing to certify.

I wish I had the links now, I had a buddy who got deep into the whole Qanon thing that sent me the info and said "this is how we are going to keep Trump president." I thought he was totally full of it until January 6th actually happened. He even helped organize pro-Trump rallies around Ohio (one of them was a convoy of pro-Trump people flying their flags and driving the loop around Cincinnati). Sadly he completely disassociated with our whole group of friends after Biden was inaugurated and nobody has heard from him since.

That being said, if I knew and all these other people knew then most certainly Pelosi and other people in Congress knew and they didn't do their part to secure the capital ahead of time. They clearly wanted the riot to happen so they could get Trump disqualified from running for office again.

So, at the end of the day, isn't anyone else upset that the guy whose campaign tried to bypass the constitution is likely the Republican nominee and is running against the Democratic nominee who had operatives in congress to made sure that a plan that was well documented get ALMOST to the end for political points. They allowed a woman to get killed in the capital because they didn't secure it properly ahead of time and threw our country into greater turmoil than any other point in my lifetime.

I'd really just like to throw both candidates out and start fresh, but I know that won't happen. It just bugs me that both sides don't see the fact that both parties are the problem. There is no lesser of 2 evils, there are just 2 evils. Everything is done for political points now with zero cares for who gets hurt due to the hateful rhetoric they use towards each other.

I'll step off my soap box now.

You realize of course that there was an entire movement, pressed by a large number of Congressional Democrats and the DNC, to either challenge state electors or have those electors change their votes from Trump to Hillary in 2016. This dumb stuff happens every election these days. Yes---its theoretically feasible---but its not realistic and it is never going to actually happen whether it gets floated by losing hard core extreme Democrat elected congressman or some wack job QANON fringe groups.

I don't really like dealing in if's and maybe's.

As far as can be proven Pelosi did not increase capitol police when told a riot was starting and they were requesting back up.

Not too long after Trump found out about the riots he asked people to protest peacefully and respect law enforcement.

When other many of the other facts can be proven. Then it's worth taking them into account. I'm sure a lot of that and other things could very well be true. Hopefully we know a lot of these things in the future. Or it may be JFK where we never really know for sure.

The left wants to keep Trump off the ballot in 2024. The more stuff they throw against the wall, odds are something will stick. So far they’ve failed. For 6 years they’ve failed.
This is no different.
Thing is, nobody cares anymore, if they ever did.

(07-19-2023 11:45 AM)450bench Wrote:  The left wants to keep Trump off the ballot in 2024. The more stuff they throw against the wall, odds are something will stick. So far they’ve failed. For 6 years they’ve failed.
This is no different.
Thing is, nobody cares anymore, if they ever did.

Brainwashed lefties care.

(07-19-2023 11:42 AM)Eagleyed Wrote:  I don't really like dealing in if's and maybe's.

As far as can be proven Pelosi did not increase capitol police when told a riot was starting and they were requesting back up.

Not too long after Trump found out about the riots he asked people to protest peacefully and respect law enforcement.

When other many of the other facts can be proven. Then it's worth taking them into account. I'm sure a lot of that and other things could very well be true. Hopefully we know a lot of these things in the future. Or it may be JFK where we never really know for sure.

Depends on what you consider too long, by 1pm they were already protesting at the capitol took over hour and a half for a plea to remain peaceful, after tweeting about pence to make people angrier.
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/106997746...t-and-when

(07-19-2023 11:20 AM)mlb Wrote:  I had a response to JR in another thread that he thought Trump was "absolutely" innocent of all the charges to this point, so I wanted to point something out that has been bothering me for a long time. I decided to start a new thread as I think that thread is probably being ignored by this point.

And... to be clear, this is anecdotal as I don't have the links any longer that backs up what I type here, so take it as you will.

---------------

While you guys may be correct on Russiagate, and even potentially the classified documents (although I still think Trump is guilty on that), what do you think about the fact that someone within Trump's orbit was most certainly feeding the Qanon sites with plans months in advance of election day? I read as early as September of 2020 almost an exact plan for how things would go down post election day should Trump lose up through having the election not certified and having it go back to the states, which greater than 50% were controlled by Republicans.

I'm not saying it was DJT, as I don't know what kind of evidence is out there to connect him directly (I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been clued in, however). I do find it very concerning that someone within the campaign was feeding the scenario to those groups because they wanted them to show up on January 6th. The only thing that didn't go exactly as the scenario I read was Pence not following through on refusing to certify.

I wish I had the links now, I had a buddy who got deep into the whole Qanon thing that sent me the info and said "this is how we are going to keep Trump president." I thought he was totally full of it until January 6th actually happened. He even helped organize pro-Trump rallies around Ohio (one of them was a convoy of pro-Trump people flying their flags and driving the loop around Cincinnati). Sadly he completely disassociated with our whole group of friends after Biden was inaugurated and nobody has heard from him since.

That being said, if I knew and all these other people knew then most certainly Pelosi and other people in Congress knew and they didn't do their part to secure the capital ahead of time. They clearly wanted the riot to happen so they could get Trump disqualified from running for office again.

So, at the end of the day, isn't anyone else upset that the guy whose campaign tried to bypass the constitution is likely the Republican nominee and is running against the Democratic nominee who had operatives in congress to made sure that a plan that was well documented get ALMOST to the end for political points. They allowed a woman to get killed in the capital because they didn't secure it properly ahead of time and threw our country into greater turmoil than any other point in my lifetime.

I'd really just like to throw both candidates out and start fresh, but I know that won't happen. It just bugs me that both sides don't see the fact that both parties are the problem. There is no lesser of 2 evils, there are just 2 evils. Everything is done for political points now with zero cares for who gets hurt due to the hateful rhetoric they use towards each other.

I'll step off my soap box now.

The other argument is it was the feds setting it up. After the fake dossier, the Russia hoax, and the impeachment hoaxes, it is certainly in the realm of possibility that this was a setup. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

I would suggest polling likely Biden voters and see how they feel. You know, sniff around Del Rio and McAllen and feel things out before you head to EL Paso and on to Tucson.

FYI, none are left on Martha’s Vineyard. Just trying to save you some time.

(07-19-2023 11:52 AM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  

(07-19-2023 11:42 AM)Eagleyed Wrote:  I don't really like dealing in if's and maybe's.

As far as can be proven Pelosi did not increase capitol police when told a riot was starting and they were requesting back up.

Not too long after Trump found out about the riots he asked people to protest peacefully and respect law enforcement.

When other many of the other facts can be proven. Then it's worth taking them into account. I'm sure a lot of that and other things could very well be true. Hopefully we know a lot of these things in the future. Or it may be JFK where we never really know for sure.

Depends on what you consider too long, by 1pm they were already protesting at the capitol took over hour and a half for a plea to remain peaceful, after tweeting about pence to make people angrier.
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/106997746...t-and-when

He could've tweeted nothing and I still wouldn't have found him at fault for what others did. Unless he told them to storm the building to make sure they couldn't certify the election directly I don't blame him for it. People are responsible for their own actions not the actions of others.

And I'm sure that everyone here knows by now I am perfectly happy to find fault with Trump in many things. I just don't see it with this one.

Of course if he knew this was going to happen before he spoke to the crowd as mlb suggests that would change things. But, I can only go off the facts we do know for sure.

(07-19-2023 11:49 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2023 11:45 AM)450bench Wrote:  The left wants to keep Trump off the ballot in 2024. The more stuff they throw against the wall, odds are something will stick. So far they’ve failed. For 6 years they’ve failed.
This is no different.
Thing is, nobody cares anymore, if they ever did.

Brainwashed lefties care.

So in essence it doesn't matter 'cause they're gonna vote Demon regardless. Those who are following this charade already know what the Demons goal is but if anyone with any common sense knows they want him out because they know that they won't be able to pull the same trick as they did in 2020, i.e., cheat. They'll try for sure because that's how they roll.


If you're even calling yourself a follower of good you shouldn't even think about voting for a Demon. They're the party of anything that is immoral.

Similar caveat that I am making a fundamental argument... not a legal one. Although I think many laws have been broken by many people, I also think they have many ways to avoid actually being prosecuted/convicted...

(07-19-2023 11:20 AM)mlb Wrote:  While you guys may be correct on Russiagate, and even potentially the classified documents (although I still think Trump is guilty on that),

I know you aren't saying this, but I want to respond... It depends upon what 'that' is. I heard some Democrats trying to convict him and they actually gave him his 'out'... and that is (paraphrasing) that he is allowed to retain any documents that he thinks are pertinent to preserve the record of his presidency... at his sole discretion as to what that was... and not the official archivist.... and the one item that they mentioned was one where they had him recorded saying that he wanted to keep the records because his role was being misrepresented in the press. Of course they were using it to prove he intended to keep records, but it also gave at least the legal argument... whether or not it wins, it remains to be seen. If he DOES have that right then it is going to be a tough road to hoe.

Quote: what do you think about the fact that someone within Trump's orbit was most certainly feeding the Qanon sites with plans months in advance of election day? I read as early as September of 2020 almost an exact plan for how things would go down post election day should Trump lose up through having the election not certified and having it go back to the states, which greater than 50% were controlled by Republicans.

There were challenges to the legality of the election months in advance of election day... and really not much time to do anything about it... because of course it is harder to challenge something legally until you have a basis to do so, which you don't have until after the election, and then you have little time... especially if the state politicians (the ones you'd have to look to first for relief) are complicit.

I don't really have a problem with people making contingency plans... the details of those plans, its harder to tell...

but to the Qanon sort of things... I don't even know if there is a definition of who or what Qanon is... and I'm not really up on specifically what was said to whom and when and by whom. 'Someone in his sphere' can refer to a whole lot of people acting completely independently.... and of course... once you start putting things into the air, things can easily get taken over by others acting even more independently.

Quote:So, at the end of the day, isn't anyone else upset that the guy whose campaign tried to bypass the constitution is likely the Republican nominee and is running against the Democratic nominee who had operatives in congress to made sure that a plan that was well documented get ALMOST to the end for political points. They allowed a woman to get killed in the capital because they didn't secure it properly ahead of time and threw our country into greater turmoil than any other point in my lifetime.

Of course.... hence why many of us are bothered by the fact that almost the entire focus has been on Trump.

Quote:I'd really just like to throw both candidates out and start fresh, but I know that won't happen. It just bugs me that both sides don't see the fact that both parties are the problem. There is no lesser of 2 evils, there are just 2 evils. Everything is done for political points now with zero cares for who gets hurt due to the hateful rhetoric they use towards each other.

I'll step off my soap box now.

I refer to them as the evil of two lessers.... but it goes WAY beyond just those two.

(07-19-2023 11:52 AM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  

(07-19-2023 11:42 AM)Eagleyed Wrote:  I don't really like dealing in if's and maybe's.

As far as can be proven Pelosi did not increase capitol police when told a riot was starting and they were requesting back up.

Not too long after Trump found out about the riots he asked people to protest peacefully and respect law enforcement.

When other many of the other facts can be proven. Then it's worth taking them into account. I'm sure a lot of that and other things could very well be true. Hopefully we know a lot of these things in the future. Or it may be JFK where we never really know for sure.

Depends on what you consider too long, by 1pm they were already protesting at the capitol took over hour and a half for a plea to remain peaceful, after tweeting about pence to make people angrier.
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/106997746...t-and-when

Oh, look who crawled out of the woodwork.

If someone in govt was feeding the QAnon sites it was Trump's political opposition or the CIA, FBI, NSA etc.

And yes it is a lesser of 2 evils. One of the evils pushes for near unchecked abortion and is ok with teens getting sexual reassignment surgery.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Trump didn’t have to incite anybody. All the necessary incitement was in already in place because the veil was pulled back for 4 years. It wasnt just the Russiagate being proven false, it wasn’t just the partisan Ukraine phone call impeachment, it was t just the fact that it was proven the FBI spied on the Trump campaign, and it wasn’t just the sudden stop of vote counting, almost simultaneously, in GA, PA, and Michigan. It was a combination of all those things over a 4-5 year period.

The DNC, FBI and others convinced 75,000,000 people that their Republic was being stolen, their votes nullified, and their right to self determination destroyed. They incited, inspired, and directly caused the protest of January 6. More importantly, that was their plan and their goal, which is why they did nothing to stop it, not with upgrading security, standing down the national guard, and having the hundreds of LEOs mixed in the crowd do nothing.

Democrats lash out when told to, like the good sheep they are. Conservatives are far more independent. They lash out only when backed into a corner. The Swamp backed them into a corner.

Drop box ballots and changes to voting rules in 2020 sealed the election for the current faux President. No way this arse clown got over 80MM votes running a campaign from his basement. With every fibre of my being, this was massive fraud in key swing states. Look at Florida. Get rid of the obviously corrupt Brenda Snipes, and Trump wins by a greater margin than in 2016. The prosecution rests.

(07-19-2023 09:18 PM)b2b Wrote:  If someone in govt was feeding the QAnon sites it was Trump's political opposition or the CIA, FBI, NSA etc.

And yes it is a lesser of 2 evils. One of the evils pushes for near unchecked abortion and is ok with teens getting sexual reassignment surgery.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Meh.

Qanon is just a myth, right anqueefer prancing ninjas?

Weeeble Nadless as your biggest (I mean BIGGEST) fanboy.

Some group you’ve hitched your wagon to loons. Hope you’re happy with the outcome…

(07-19-2023 10:03 PM)banker Wrote:  Trump didn’t have to incite anybody. All the necessary incitement was in already in place because the veil was pulled back for 4 years. It wasnt just the Russiagate being proven false, it wasn’t just the partisan Ukraine phone call impeachment, it was t just the fact that it was proven the FBI spied on the Trump campaign, and it wasn’t just the sudden stop of vote counting, almost simultaneously, in GA, PA, and Michigan. It was a combination of all those things over a 4-5 year period.

The DNC, FBI and others convinced 75,000,000 people that their Republic was being stolen, their votes nullified, and their right to self determination destroyed. They incited, inspired, and directly caused the protest of January 6. More importantly, that was their plan and their goal, which is why they did nothing to stop it, not with upgrading security, standing down the national guard, and having the hundreds of LEOs mixed in the crowd do nothing.

Democrats lash out when told to, like the good sheep they are. Conservatives are far more independent. They lash out only when backed into a corner. The Swamp backed them into a corner.

Vivek Ramaswamy said it best (as he so often does). Paraphrasing:

"If you tell people that they cannot speak, they scream. If you tell people that they cannot scream, they tear things down."

Jan. 6 was a totally provoked by the left. Donald Trump did nothing to help matters, and disgracefully had a hand in making them worse. But the real culprits of that day are the very same Democrat elected and appointed turds who are still stinking up the hallways of Congress and festering in the back offices of our federal bureaucracy.

There is a special level of hell reserved for all of them.