(07-17-2023 09:29 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Kansas is somewhere between 11th and 18th in line to get a P2 bid.

They would be next up after Notre Dame, 5 of the Magnificent 7 (UNC, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia), 4 to 8 PAC schools (Oregon, Washington, Cal?, Stanford?, Colorado?, AZ State?, AZ?, Utah?), and then probably 1 or 2 of the ACC leftovers (Duke, GA Tech?) and maybe NC State and VA Tech.

So if the Power 2 go to 22 teams each, they might be in.

If they go to 28 teams each, they are in for sure.

There's more to it than that. They are a recognized national brand for a sport which has not been fully monetized yet. Basketball for the upper tier is not going to be shackled forever to the NCAA. It will be freed to earn its own potential. Kansas hoops is worth more than North Carolina hoops, or Dukes hoops. True their football team is really bad and attendance is low. The same's essentially true at Duke. Carolina football will double the Kansas crowds. North Carolina is worth more as a market. Kansas has more actual hoops value. I don't think they are so far down the line. If hoops are freed of the NCAA they could well be worth as much as 2.25 x current value.

In that world Kansas shoots up the pecking order rather quickly and so too do North Carolina, Duke, and Louisville. Arizona and U.C.L.A. would be worth a good deal more. That's worth keeping in mind. And I don't believe that point will be lost by any major conference. Commissioners can sell the obvious and have a harder time selling what is yet to come. When it's obvious that such hoops first schools will be worth more some of the big ones will be gone. The question is who has the foresight to move before everyone realizes the potential. After all the Big 10 didn't just take U.C.L.A. as a market. They are the best hoops brand in the PAC 12 like USC is the most iconic football brand. North Carolina and Virginia are still sought though both are more known for basketball. Kansas will surely be on someone's radar. It's funny to listen to Frank pooh pooh Kansas, when the Big 10 lapped up a pedestrian football school in UCLA, is sitting on Rutgers and Maryland, and wants North Carolina. Brand is more valuable than markets if football, and will be in basketball as well and the Jayhawks are at worst the #2 brand in the P5 in hoops and sometimes #1. Kentucky is their foil in that regard. I certainly don't believe I'm the only one who thinks so. ESPN has had an interest in Kansas for some time now. Who would be #17 and 18 for the SEC? Barring Notre Dame interest it would likely be Florida State and North Carolina. If the ACC can't shake loose Kansas might get that look sooner. Clemson would be a natural #3 otherwise.

(07-17-2023 09:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 09:29 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Kansas is somewhere between 11th and 18th in line to get a P2 bid.

They would be next up after Notre Dame, 5 of the Magnificent 7 (UNC, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia), 4 to 8 PAC schools (Oregon, Washington, Cal?, Stanford?, Colorado?, AZ State?, AZ?, Utah?), and then probably 1 or 2 of the ACC leftovers (Duke, GA Tech?) and maybe NC State and VA Tech.

So if the Power 2 go to 22 teams each, they might be in.

If they go to 28 teams each, they are in for sure.

There's more to it than that. They are a recognized national brand for a sport which has not been fully monetized yet. Basketball for the upper tier is not going to be shackled forever to the NCAA. It will be freed to earn its own potential. Kansas hoops is worth more than North Carolina hoops, or Dukes hoops. True their football team is really bad and attendance is low. The same's essentially true at Duke. Carolina football will double the Kansas crowds. North Carolina is worth more as a market. Kansas has more actual hoops value. I don't think they are so far down the line. If hoops are freed of the NCAA they could well be worth as much as 2.25 x current value.

In that world Kansas shoots up the pecking order rather quickly and so too do North Carolina, Duke, and Louisville. Arizona and U.C.L.A. would be worth a good deal more. That's worth keeping in mind. And I don't believe that point will be lost any major conference. Commissioners can sell the obvious and have a harder time selling what is yet to come. When it's obvious that such hoops first schools will be worth more some of the big ones will be gone. The question is who has the foresight to move before everyone realizes the potential.

Agreed, but I think there are too many ACC programs that I believe the SEC would take before Kansas. Clemson, FSU, UNC, Miami, and UVA or VTech would be ahead of Kansas IMO. Football still drives the bus for the foreseeable future and adding contiguous states/markets is less important in the streaming world. Primetime match-ups are much more important.

If the B1G somehow gets UNC and UVA, I think Kansas definitely gets a look.

(07-17-2023 07:44 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 06:44 PM)Rockchalkchihawk Wrote:  So…Will KU ever get the BIG or SEC invite? AAU school, historic blue blood basketball program/ brand but the worst P5 football program over the last 15 years. Granted, football stadium upgrades coming and Lance Leipold has KU headed in the right direction. I’m not holding my breath in the near term but where would we be without wishful thinking?

Dude, this post is so high school girl.

Says the guy whose school, in conference terms, is the new freshman.

(07-17-2023 10:05 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 09:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 09:29 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Kansas is somewhere between 11th and 18th in line to get a P2 bid.

They would be next up after Notre Dame, 5 of the Magnificent 7 (UNC, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia), 4 to 8 PAC schools (Oregon, Washington, Cal?, Stanford?, Colorado?, AZ State?, AZ?, Utah?), and then probably 1 or 2 of the ACC leftovers (Duke, GA Tech?) and maybe NC State and VA Tech.

So if the Power 2 go to 22 teams each, they might be in.

If they go to 28 teams each, they are in for sure.

There's more to it than that. They are a recognized national brand for a sport which has not been fully monetized yet. Basketball for the upper tier is not going to be shackled forever to the NCAA. It will be freed to earn its own potential. Kansas hoops is worth more than North Carolina hoops, or Dukes hoops. True their football team is really bad and attendance is low. The same's essentially true at Duke. Carolina football will double the Kansas crowds. North Carolina is worth more as a market. Kansas has more actual hoops value. I don't think they are so far down the line. If hoops are freed of the NCAA they could well be worth as much as 2.25 x current value.

In that world Kansas shoots up the pecking order rather quickly and so too do North Carolina, Duke, and Louisville. Arizona and U.C.L.A. would be worth a good deal more. That's worth keeping in mind. And I don't believe that point will be lost any major conference. Commissioners can sell the obvious and have a harder time selling what is yet to come. When it's obvious that such hoops first schools will be worth more some of the big ones will be gone. The question is who has the foresight to move before everyone realizes the potential.

Agreed, but I think there are too many ACC programs that I believe the SEC would take before Kansas. Clemson, FSU, UNC, Miami, and UVA or VTech would be ahead of Kansas IMO. Football still drives the bus for the foreseeable future and adding contiguous states/markets is less important in the streaming world. Primetime match-ups are much more important.

If the B1G somehow gets UNC and UVA, I think Kansas definitely gets a look.

I think some of those are exaggerated, not by you, but message board arguments. The SEC really covers all ACC bases with 3 schools: Florida State (top football brand), North Carolina (top basketball brand and next largest new market), a Virginia school (UVa and Va Tech each bring enough to the table with UVa being the state flagship and academic stalwart and Virginia Tech which comes closer to the SEC MEAN in attendance and has the better football product and both bring the 2nd best new market).

After that Clemson is the next best brand, but in a state of 5 million in which South Carolina is represented by about half the state and the majority swings on who's winning. Miami has never really been an SEC market is a distant third in viewership in Florida, and if we had FSU wouldn't make a difference in our advertising in that state. The real threat to Kansas is N.C. State and whether the University System of North Carolina would pressure for their inclusion.

Kansas is easily in the Mix at 22 as someone pointed out above. Remember that Clemson is not top 25 in revenue. Florida State is top 15. The reason I usually list Clemson in the mix is because they have been a concern of South Carolina who wants them in the SEC and with Florida State they close out the best programs in the Southeast which important to Birmingham.

If you wanted a major grab to 22 for the SEC it would be hard to beat: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia. And for a network whether still with Disney or not those 6 with the SEC is one helluva an all-season powerhouse and I also don't believe I am the only who thinks that way. Now we wait on the PAC to see if anything gets jump started or if we slumber a couple of years.

Kansas doesn't need a P2.

Its not like they will ever win a championship in FB. At best they could make the playoff 1 time.

B1G/SEC have grown large enough to the point where they'll always have plenty of NCAAT representation. This is more of a problem in the PAC where its currently a struggle to push past 3 bids every year.

(07-17-2023 10:08 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 07:44 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-17-2023 06:44 PM)Rockchalkchihawk Wrote:  So…Will KU ever get the BIG or SEC invite? AAU school, historic blue blood basketball program/ brand but the worst P5 football program over the last 15 years. Granted, football stadium upgrades coming and Lance Leipold has KU headed in the right direction. I’m not holding my breath in the near term but where would we be without wishful thinking?

Dude, this post is so high school girl.

Says the guy whose school, in conference terms, is the new freshman.

And?

That freshman has made the CFP.

Kansas offers some "P2 qualities." It would not surprise me if KU ended up in the Big Ten or SEC. Nor if it did not.

Kansas won the men's basketball national championship in 2022 but were a 2nd round loser in 2019, 2021 and 2023 (3 of last 4 NCAAT). We're still waiting for the hammer to drop on Bill Self but I'm not holding my breath if nothing has happened yet. With the Big Ten geographic window stretching further and their eyes possibly looking at the ACC in the 2030's, Kansas geographically and demographically isn't attractive to the Big Ten. They will have to be way better on a consistent basis in men's basketball (or become a perennial football powerhouse) to attract interest in the Big Ten (or SEC for that matter).

I don't see the SEC nor B10 taking Kansas, So I guess B12 is the answer.

They’re stuck in the Big XII because their football team SUCKS historically, and it’s the ONLY sports that matters. And, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, cut out the AAU crap!

More a question for discussion. KU has announced that it is upgrading its football stadium and facilities. The preliminary plans have the stadium capacity reduced to a little over 40,000. They are struggling to get funding through donations and have resorted to more creative options. Does any of that matter to a prospective new conference?

Stay in the nB12.

IMO they are not valuable enough for the SEC or B1G. If one of them does take them, I sure hope it is the B1G.

I've been leaning towards another possibility lately. Once the Big ten and SEC take what they want (probably in the next 10-12 years, the remaining schools of the ACC, Big XII and PAC-12 will all look around. There will be a group of them that think they should be in the Big Ten/SEC, but didn't make the cut. I think those schools will leave their respective conferences and create a new national conference that will be number 3 behind the Big Ten/ SEC. Think Oregon, Washington, Kansas, Duke, Virginia, etc. They will come from what remains of the Big XII, ACC and PAC-12. The TV money they will get won't be SEC/Big Ten, but it will be alright.

I think the SEC will pull them in for geographic closure.

(07-18-2023 08:29 AM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  I've been leaning towards another possibility lately. Once the Big ten and SEC take what they want (probably in the next 10-12 years, the remaining schools of the ACC, Big XII and PAC-12 will all look around. There will be a group of them that think they should be in the Big Ten/SEC, but didn't make the cut. I think those schools will leave their respective conferences and create a new national conference that will be number 3 behind the Big Ten/ SEC. Think Oregon, Washington, Kansas, Duke, Virginia, etc. They will come from what remains of the Big XII, ACC and PAC-12. The TV money they will get won't be SEC/Big Ten, but it will be alright.

Ultimately, I think it’s who is left in the ACC will take the best of the Pac-12 and Big 12 and form that national conference. So, I generally agree with the outcome, but in terms of procedure, the ACC is structural vessel (as opposed to forming an entirely new conference). I think a lot of fans weirdly overrate how many ACC schools would add value to the Big Ten and SEC, but then underrate the value of the depth of the ACC even in the event of a B1G/ACC raid.

Man. A lot of you guys really don't like Kansas.

Now that the B1G has destabilized the PAC, Kansas is off the B1G’s radar. The B1G needs football brands and/or new markets.

The SEC is now KU’s only viable path to the P2…and it would take an unlikely large expansion.

KU’s best option is the new B12.

(07-17-2023 06:47 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  It would be exceptionally difficult for Kansas to get in the Big Ten as the Big Ten is massively unlikely to ever add another Midwestern school not named Notre Dame.

Kansas has an outside shot at the SEC, but is behind the ACC schools in line (FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA/VT, Miami). Their best bet is an odd number of ACC schools get added, and then Kansas gets the final seat in the west to round out the numbers.

Agree with this assessment. Kansas is an SEC possibility if the league has already absorbed, say, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, North Carolina, N C State, Virginia, and Virginia Tech. It's now trying to decide whether to finish off with Duke, Louisville, Georgia Tech, or the Jayhawks.

It's hard to imagine the Jayhawks' chances topping 30% even then, though, unless the B1G takes some of their competition (GT and Duke, say) off the board.

It's not hard to imagine them staying in the B12 and feeling satisfied with that, though. The state has a new requirement in place that it be consulted before either Kansas or Kansas State changes conference membership.

(07-18-2023 08:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Kansas won the men's basketball national championship in 2022 but were a 2nd round loser in 2019, 2021 and 2023 (3 of last 4 NCAAT). We're still waiting for the hammer to drop on Bill Self but I'm not holding my breath if nothing has happened yet. With the Big Ten geographic window stretching further and their eyes possibly looking at the ACC in the 2030's, Kansas geographically and demographically isn't attractive to the Big Ten. They will have to be way better on a consistent basis in men's basketball (or become a perennial football powerhouse) to attract interest in the Big Ten (or SEC for that matter).

There are plenty of reasons to doubt KU's path to the SEC or B1G, but saying they need to be "way better on a consistent basis in men's basketball" is an absurd conclusion.

The last time they weren't a top 4 seed in the NCAA Tournament was 2000 when they got a 6 seed.

They are the most consistently excellent program in modern college basketball. They're not like UNC, Duke, Kentucky, or UConn that have true down years.

(07-18-2023 09:21 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-18-2023 08:29 AM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  I've been leaning towards another possibility lately. Once the Big ten and SEC take what they want (probably in the next 10-12 years, the remaining schools of the ACC, Big XII and PAC-12 will all look around. There will be a group of them that think they should be in the Big Ten/SEC, but didn't make the cut. I think those schools will leave their respective conferences and create a new national conference that will be number 3 behind the Big Ten/ SEC. Think Oregon, Washington, Kansas, Duke, Virginia, etc. They will come from what remains of the Big XII, ACC and PAC-12. The TV money they will get won't be SEC/Big Ten, but it will be alright.

Ultimately, I think it’s who is left in the ACC will take the best of the Pac-12 and Big 12 and form that national conference. So, I generally agree with the outcome, but in terms of procedure, the ACC is structural vessel (as opposed to forming an entirely new conference). I think a lot of fans weirdly overrate how many ACC schools would add value to the Big Ten and SEC, but then underrate the value of the depth of the ACC even in the event of a B1G/ACC raid.

It all depends on who is left in the ACC, how fast it all happens, and what ESPN wants to do.

For example, if Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, UVA, and Duke are gone, what really is left? I don't think Louisville, Pittsburgh, VTech, NC State, etc. would have enough collective brand cache or network dollars to pull Cincy, West Virginia, Kansas, UCF, etc from the Big 12.

If only FSU and Clemson leave, then I can see a scenario where the ACC could raid the Big 12.