College sports are done and we still have almost two months before they are back. I have too much time on my hands, and can't help but daydream about realignment what ifs. The "good old days" for me are older than they are for most posters here, and in retrospect I can imagine how the college sports landscape might be very different today if the NCAA had handled the FBS / FCS split in the late 70's differently.

In 1976, Division I football consisted of 35 independents and 100 other schools spread over 13 conferences. The Big East had not yet formed, and ESPN did not exist. Both would start up 3 years later. Oklahoma and Georgia wouldn't bring their antitrust suit challenging control of broadcasting college football games until 1981. That suit opened the floodgates, and the game hasn't been the same since.

In 1976, there were two D-I "conferences" with only 6 members (the SoCon and Southland), and two more with only 5 (the Missouri Valley and Pacific Coast Athletic Conference). The three largest conferences had 10 each (the Big Ten, SEC and MAC). What might have happened if the NCAA prescribed that all D-I conferences must have between 8 and 10 members, and must play a full round robin conference schedule (and double round robin in hoops)?

And what if they decided to hold an 8 team championship tournament at the end of the regular season? There would have been no conference championship games, so the regular season would end on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Giving autobids to some number of conference champions might well have driven many of those 35 independents to join a conference.

In fact, the Big East might have formed sooner, but around football instead of basketball. I could envision a lineup of recent national champions Pitt and Syracuse, along with other eastern independents Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers (ranked #17 that year), Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville and Virginia Tech, and those schools offering the 10th and last spot to Notre Dame.

The Irish, of course, would have declined in favor of a more national schedule, leaving the last Big East spot to the northernmost and only ACC national champion member Maryland. That would have been a far stronger league than the ACC at the time, in both football and basketball, and just as geographically compact.

The ACC might have responded by looking south, bringing back independent South Carolina and adding Georgia Tech to get to the minimum of 8 teams. If they had a crystal ball, they could have reached 10 by adding Florida State and Miami (who were not yet the powerhouses they would become). With SEC membership already at their limit of 10, those schools wouldn't have had many other good options.

Those moves would have taken 13 of the 35 indies off the board. No doubt others would have found conference homes somewhere. Would the 29 schools who dropped down in class or dropped football after the FBS/FCS split have dropped down from this change as well? We'll never know.

What other fallout might there have been from a move like this?

Me too

(07-06-2023 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  In 1976, Division I football consisted of 35 independents and 100 other schools spread over 13 conferences.

In 1976, there were two D-I "conferences" with only 6 members (the SoCon and Southland), What might have happened if the NCAA prescribed that all D-I conferences must have between 8 and 10 members, and must play a full round robin conference schedule (and double round robin in hoops)?

Giving autobids to some number of conference champions might well have driven many of those 35 independents to join a conference.


What other fallout might there have been from a move like this?

I'm guessing the Southland adds NLU/ULM for sure and invites North Texas State/UNT and Southern Miss and probably even Memphis and Tulane (just to see what they say - which would probably depend on their options). Maybe if the overall attitude is as cut-throat as today, they'd try to steal Tulsa from the MVC.

I believe the PAC would still have added Arizona and ASU to get to 10. And unlike today, the PAC wouldn't have to worry about teams being poached because the limit of 10 to a conference would apply to potential poachers as well.

(07-06-2023 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  College sports are done and we still have almost two months before they are back. I have too much time on my hands, and can't help but daydream about realignment what ifs. The "good old days" for me are older than they are for most posters here, and in retrospect I can imagine how the college sports landscape might be very different today if the NCAA had handled the FBS / FCS split in the late 70's differently.

In 1976, Division I football consisted of 35 independents and 100 other schools spread over 13 conferences. The Big East had not yet formed, and ESPN did not exist. Both would start up 3 years later. Oklahoma and Georgia wouldn't bring their antitrust suit challenging control of broadcasting college football games until 1981. That suit opened the floodgates, and the game hasn't been the same since.

In 1976, there were two D-I "conferences" with only 6 members (the SoCon and Southland), and two more with only 5 (the Missouri Valley and Pacific Coast Athletic Conference). The three largest conferences had 10 each (the Big Ten, SEC and MAC). What might have happened if the NCAA prescribed that all D-I conferences must have between 8 and 10 members, and must play a full round robin conference schedule (and double round robin in hoops)?

And what if they decided to hold an 8 team championship tournament at the end of the regular season? There would have been no conference championship games, so the regular season would end on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Giving autobids to some number of conference champions might well have driven many of those 35 independents to join a conference.

In fact, the Big East might have formed sooner, but around football instead of basketball. I could envision a lineup of recent national champions Pitt and Syracuse, along with other eastern independents Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers (ranked #17 that year), Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville and Virginia Tech, and those schools offering the 10th and last spot to Notre Dame.

The Irish, of course, would have declined in favor of a more national schedule, leaving the last Big East spot to the northernmost and only ACC national champion member Maryland. That would have been a far stronger league than the ACC at the time, in both football and basketball, and just as geographically compact.

The ACC might have responded by looking south, bringing back independent South Carolina and adding Georgia Tech to get to the minimum of 8 teams. If they had a crystal ball, they could have reached 10 by adding Florida State and Miami (who were not yet the powerhouses they would become). With SEC membership already at their limit of 10, those schools wouldn't have had many other good options.

Those moves would have taken 13 of the 35 indies off the board. No doubt others would have found conference homes somewhere. Would the 29 schools who dropped down in class or dropped football after the FBS/FCS split have dropped down from this change as well? We'll never know.

What other fallout might there have been from a move like this?

A large number of the current 134 weren't in Division I football back then. At least 11 and maybe as many as 18.

(07-06-2023 04:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-06-2023 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  College sports are done and we still have almost two months before they are back. I have too much time on my hands, and can't help but daydream about realignment what ifs. The "good old days" for me are older than they are for most posters here, and in retrospect I can imagine how the college sports landscape might be very different today if the NCAA had handled the FBS / FCS split in the late 70's differently.

In 1976, Division I football consisted of 35 independents and 100 other schools spread over 13 conferences. The Big East had not yet formed, and ESPN did not exist. Both would start up 3 years later. Oklahoma and Georgia wouldn't bring their antitrust suit challenging control of broadcasting college football games until 1981. That suit opened the floodgates, and the game hasn't been the same since.

In 1976, there were two D-I "conferences" with only 6 members (the SoCon and Southland), and two more with only 5 (the Missouri Valley and Pacific Coast Athletic Conference). The three largest conferences had 10 each (the Big Ten, SEC and MAC). What might have happened if the NCAA prescribed that all D-I conferences must have between 8 and 10 members, and must play a full round robin conference schedule (and double round robin in hoops)?

And what if they decided to hold an 8 team championship tournament at the end of the regular season? There would have been no conference championship games, so the regular season would end on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Giving autobids to some number of conference champions might well have driven many of those 35 independents to join a conference.

In fact, the Big East might have formed sooner, but around football instead of basketball. I could envision a lineup of recent national champions Pitt and Syracuse, along with other eastern independents Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers (ranked #17 that year), Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville and Virginia Tech, and those schools offering the 10th and last spot to Notre Dame.

The Irish, of course, would have declined in favor of a more national schedule, leaving the last Big East spot to the northernmost and only ACC national champion member Maryland. That would have been a far stronger league than the ACC at the time, in both football and basketball, and just as geographically compact.

The ACC might have responded by looking south, bringing back independent South Carolina and adding Georgia Tech to get to the minimum of 8 teams. If they had a crystal ball, they could have reached 10 by adding Florida State and Miami (who were not yet the powerhouses they would become). With SEC membership already at their limit of 10, those schools wouldn't have had many other good options.

Those moves would have taken 13 of the 35 indies off the board. No doubt others would have found conference homes somewhere. Would the 29 schools who dropped down in class or dropped football after the FBS/FCS split have dropped down from this change as well? We'll never know.

What other fallout might there have been from a move like this?

A large number of the current 134 weren't in Division I football back then. At least 11 and maybe as many as 18.

By my count there are 28, a majority of which have moved up in the last 25 years.

Can’t wait

I wonder how long it would take before some conference sued the NCAA for unlawful restraint of trade for limiting the size of conferences.

(07-06-2023 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  In fact, the Big East might have formed sooner, but around football instead of basketball. I could envision a lineup of recent national champions Pitt and Syracuse, along with other eastern independents Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers (ranked #17 that year), Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville and Virginia Tech, and those schools offering the 10th and last spot to Notre Dame.

What other fallout might there have been from a move like this?

Imagine if, before the Big East, a eastern conference consisted of Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Rutgers, Villanova, and UMass, all I-A schools, with access to the remaining eastern I-A independents of Temple, Syracuse, Boston College, and Holy Cross. What then?

That conference was the Eastern 8, now the Atlantic 10.

(07-06-2023 02:00 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Me too

I remember that feeling well, good luck to you guys in your new Conference.