(06-20-2023 06:38 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 06:06 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:00 AM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  Why in the world the SEC would have any interest in UVA is beyond me. Their football program is horrible and so are their TV ratings. It would be like adding a public Vanderbilt.

ESPN is will be direct-to-consumer by end of decade. Cable is dying. Why add a school for the "market" when its actual fanbase is much smaller than the current average SEC fanbase? Take FSU and Clemson when the ACC GOR is nearing expiration in 2034 and be done with it.

UVA has a lot of things the SEC likes - it is a state flagship, and an academically prestigious one at that - in a southern state.

Plus, UVA has excellent basketball, something the SEC can use, and it gets the SEC up in to the DMV, the lucrative DC-area market. No, the SEC will never have a major share of that market, but they would get a slice of it.

And while their football is mediocre, the SEC doesn't need more good football, has plenty of that.

IMO, the SEC would like to have UVA. Not above UNC or FSU, but they would be a good addition.

Don't see a school leaving for a lesser academic conference, which is why I think uNC would go to the B1G over the SEC.

Good point, it is hard to think of cases where a school left a better academic conference for a lesser one. None are coming to my mind right now.

So I agree, UNC might well choose the B1G over the SEC on that basis.

AAC/WCC to Big XII lol

(06-20-2023 06:38 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 06:06 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:00 AM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  Why in the world the SEC would have any interest in UVA is beyond me. Their football program is horrible and so are their TV ratings. It would be like adding a public Vanderbilt.

ESPN is will be direct-to-consumer by end of decade. Cable is dying. Why add a school for the "market" when its actual fanbase is much smaller than the current average SEC fanbase? Take FSU and Clemson when the ACC GOR is nearing expiration in 2034 and be done with it.

UVA has a lot of things the SEC likes - it is a state flagship, and an academically prestigious one at that - in a southern state.

Plus, UVA has excellent basketball, something the SEC can use, and it gets the SEC up in to the DMV, the lucrative DC-area market. No, the SEC will never have a major share of that market, but they would get a slice of it.

And while their football is mediocre, the SEC doesn't need more good football, has plenty of that.

IMO, the SEC would like to have UVA. Not above UNC or FSU, but they would be a good addition.

Don't see a school leaving for a lesser academic conference, which is why I think uNC would go to the B1G over the SEC.

Good point, it is hard to think of cases where a school left a better academic conference for a lesser one. None are coming to my mind right now.

So I agree, UNC might well choose the B1G over the SEC on that basis.

Don’t fall for his argument. Using his logic, Clemson, FSU and UNC will all go the B1G route, and so did UT. Wait, they didn’t? Hmmmmm…

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 07:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 11:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 08:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Your sources? Your sources for probable SEC moves? LOL! The SEC has been in talks initiated by North Carolina twice. The SEC has had interest in North Carolina for 30 years. Your source is full of it with regard to UNC. Virginia is another matter as either school would be good enough to give the SEC the state.

Clemson is the one which would be on the bubble, not North Carolina and not Florida State. The SEC has 50% of the state of South Carolina, a state of 5 million. North Carolina carries the state of North Carolina, a state of 10 million plus. Either Virginia school would bring a market of 9 million plus.

The SEC if it cracked the ACC, would most likely take 4, the two largest Southern markets it does not have, and the 2 best brands. New market gets a Virginia school in, best brands gets F.S.U. and Clemson in with North Carolina which is the strongest hoops brand they could land outside of Kansas, but which plays at least competitive football.

I've heard that "UVA and UNC are better fits for the B1G" from some other B1G-leaning sources, clearly that's just a disinformation campaign. Though I think all of us would be just as happy with VT instead of UVA, I think that UVA is more of an Offense/Defense move b/c it blocks the B1G and thus they're the more likely of the 2 for us.

Just look at the Olympic sports offerings and the academic profiles in the Big Ten vs SEC and you’ll find your answer. It’s not disinformation; not everything is a conspiracy. Hard to believe, huh?

The SEC would provide better road trips, but in all reality neither school fits in either conference better than they do in the ACC. I have zero interest in watching my team with a 50k stadium compete against the behemoths week in and week out. Carolina doesn’t need the debt to keep up, which is where any overhead money would go anyway. It’s a dumb business decision when we do just fine right now.

I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

Yep!^^^^^^^^^^^

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 07:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 11:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I've heard that "UVA and UNC are better fits for the B1G" from some other B1G-leaning sources, clearly that's just a disinformation campaign. Though I think all of us would be just as happy with VT instead of UVA, I think that UVA is more of an Offense/Defense move b/c it blocks the B1G and thus they're the more likely of the 2 for us.

Just look at the Olympic sports offerings and the academic profiles in the Big Ten vs SEC and you’ll find your answer. It’s not disinformation; not everything is a conspiracy. Hard to believe, huh?

The SEC would provide better road trips, but in all reality neither school fits in either conference better than they do in the ACC. I have zero interest in watching my team with a 50k stadium compete against the behemoths week in and week out. Carolina doesn’t need the debt to keep up, which is where any overhead money would go anyway. It’s a dumb business decision when we do just fine right now.

I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

Clint Foster is really funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sCzNVAI...lintFoster

(06-20-2023 08:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 07:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  Just look at the Olympic sports offerings and the academic profiles in the Big Ten vs SEC and you’ll find your answer. It’s not disinformation; not everything is a conspiracy. Hard to believe, huh?

The SEC would provide better road trips, but in all reality neither school fits in either conference better than they do in the ACC. I have zero interest in watching my team with a 50k stadium compete against the behemoths week in and week out. Carolina doesn’t need the debt to keep up, which is where any overhead money would go anyway. It’s a dumb business decision when we do just fine right now.

I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

UC VERY unlikely to leave B12 for a diluted ACC for less or similar $$

(06-21-2023 09:16 AM)indydoug Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

UC VERY unlikely to leave B12 for a diluted ACC for less or similar $$

I’ll never say never but agree. Big XII having an $80 million exit fee makes it very unlikely any members move to another conference not named Big Ten/SEC.

Outside the Big 10 making a move at the PAC the only thing that matters in the foreseeable future is the PAC TV deal in regards to M3s. If it’s solid $ and visibility and they add SMU and SDSU they will likely settle in just like the Big XII has since their most recent defections. If not, who knows.

Edit: Also of interest regarding the PAC and upcoming TV deal will be GOR/Exit Fee. Currently, have a GOR through Aug of 2024 but no exit fee. If they aren’t able to lock themselves in like ACC and Big 12 have there will be continuous conversations whether realistic or not. Heck the ACC has even locked themselves in against the SEC and Big 10 it seems. Big XII plenty enough against the other M3 IMO.

(06-21-2023 09:16 AM)indydoug Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

UC VERY unlikely to leave B12 for a diluted ACC for less or similar $$

Actually very unlikely ANY schools leaves the B12 or the ACC due to GOR & exit fees unless it's to the SEC or B1G.

(06-21-2023 09:16 AM)indydoug Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

UC VERY unlikely to leave B12 for a diluted ACC for less or similar $$

At this point the Big XII can continually absorb PAC or ACC leftovers until they hit a target number they are comfortable with. They have situated themselves to be a nice #3 conference behind the B1G and SEC overall in football and truly the #1 basketball conference overall right now. They could even be a coast-to-coast conference with East & West divisions with 2 subdivisions each potentially.

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

So has it worked well for Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, DePaul, Marquette and Providence?

Villanova has done fine.

(06-21-2023 11:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

So has it worked well for Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, DePaul, Marquette and Providence?

Villanova has done fine.

They're all making more money than they were under the hybrid model. And overall, I don't think anyone except for possibly Georgetown is actually worse off since the Big East broke away.

Providence has made the NCAA Tournament seven times since the split, compared to four times in the 20 years prior to the split.

Seton Hall has made the Dance five times since the split compared to three times in the prior 20 years.

St. Johns has made been consistently mediocre. Two appearances since the split and two in the previous ten years. Pitino should change all of that pretty quickly, though.

Georgetown and DePaul have both continued their declines, but I have no reason to think that being aligned with football schools would have treated them any better. Maybe Cooley will turn things around in DC.

Marquette made a bad hire in Woj, but Shaka appears to be turning things around.

Xavier has gotten a three seed or better three times since joining the Big East despite a terrible run under Travis Steele.

Butler probably own't recreate what it did under Brad Stevens, but they got to four consecutive tournaments since joining the Big East. We'll see if Matta has any magic left in him.

We already covered Villanova and UConn.

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

We've seen that movie, it's UConn, and they're desperate to even get a big 12 invite right now. If UNC dropped football completely, yeah, sure, but that's far more likely to be in Duke's future rather than UNC's.

(06-21-2023 09:16 AM)indydoug Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 08:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 05:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 04:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-20-2023 02:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I 100% agree that, today, UNC is just fine in the ACC. However, when you look at the long term, UNC will have fewer resources to devote to basketball and other non-football sports than at least 33 other schools if they remain in the ACC. It will be very tough to win 2.5 NCAAT games per season if you guys allow yourselves to become a Mid Major. Not impossible, as we've seen with Gonzaga and Few, but certainly less likely. If you allow yourselves to become a MidMajor after Maryland, UVA, FSU, Clemson, Miami and likely others make the jump to the P2 then it will be even more difficult.

You are assuming 33 other schools won't be absolutely spending all their "extra" money to keep up in the much more expensive football arms race. That's my whole argument against joining a football-first conference. Some of those schools already have massive amounts of athletic related debt they are paying off.

We'll see what shakes out this decade and go from there.

I think the problem UNC faces is it won't be able to stay in an ACC that it likes. Because schools like Clemson and FSU are going. And then the ACC is dead.

What UNC wants is a return to the pre-1990 ACC, the tight-knit ACC basketball league that Dean Smith and Rick Fox and Michael Jordan and James Worthy and Al Wood and Phil Ford and Bob McAdoo knew. But that league is gone forever, because when that ACC existed, money was so small that not having powerful football didn't matter. You could be a first-rate Power league, like the ACC was before 1990, without top football.

But it matters now, and IMO UNC does not want to be in a second-rate conference.

As you say, we'll see what happens.

If the ACC loses just 3 full member schools and ND then I see them surviving. They would back fill with some B12 schools, Cincy would make the most sense given their location and high research budget. Perhaps WVU or Kansas after that. The B12 needs to add PAC schools this round or they will be in trouble come 2030. The PAC will likely look at Houston then, perhaps Kansas as well. This is why BY and the B12 have so desperately tried to sabotage the PAC media deal. And it looks like that is going to fail miserably. Next target would be the ACC but I think the PAC and ACC enters into some agreement that benefits both conferences and locks the B12 out.

UC VERY unlikely to leave B12 for a diluted ACC for less or similar $$

Given that is likely that the ACC GOR won't terminate until 2036 there is plenty of time for things to change. Again, I think the ACC will survive with the loss of just 3 full member schools.

(06-21-2023 12:13 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  [quote='bryanw1995' pid='18987150' dateline='1687287629']

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

We've seen that movie, it's UConn, and they're desperate to even get a big 12 invite right now. If UNC dropped football completely, yeah, sure, but that's far more likely to be in Duke's future rather than UNC's.

Nobody needs to drop football completely. North Carolina -- and the rest of the leftovers -- can just move back to the investment in football that they were making 25 years ago.

UNC has finished in the top ten of the AP poll twice in the last forty years, and haven't finished better than sixth nationally since joining that ACC. Why should the Tarheels think that they can compete with the SEC? And why would they try?

(06-21-2023 10:00 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  At this point the Big XII can continually absorb PAC or ACC leftovers until they hit a target number they are comfortable with. They have situated themselves to be a nice #3 conference behind the B1G and SEC overall in football and truly the #1 basketball conference overall right now. They could even be a coast-to-coast conference with East & West divisions with 2 subdivisions each potentially.

They'll get started on it any minute now. Really.

(06-21-2023 08:49 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 12:13 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  [quote='bryanw1995' pid='18987150' dateline='1687287629']

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

We've seen that movie, it's UConn, and they're desperate to even get a big 12 invite right now. If UNC dropped football completely, yeah, sure, but that's far more likely to be in Duke's future rather than UNC's.

Nobody needs to drop football completely. North Carolina -- and the rest of the leftovers -- can just move back to the investment in football that they were making 25 years ago.

UNC has finished in the top ten of the AP poll twice in the last forty years, and haven't finished better than sixth nationally since joining that ACC. Why should the Tarheels think that they can compete with the SEC? And why would they try?

I can think of 20-30m reasons that they'll try. Again, if basketball as the primary with football secondary is the preferred mode, then why is UConn so desperate to join the big 12? It's because of their football and the huge revenues boost that they'd get by moving. Do you think that UConn cares more about sports, and sports revenues, than UNC?

I'm not saying that UNC CAN'T decide to de-emphasize football and focus most of their efforts on basketball, I'm just saying that they WON'T. I mean, I guess they could, and cede most of the sports fan in the state to NC State...

(06-21-2023 08:49 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  ....
North Carolina -- and the rest of the leftovers -- can just move back to the investment in football that they were making 25 years ago.

UNC has finished in the top ten of the AP poll twice in the last forty years, and haven't finished better than sixth nationally since joining that ACC. Why should the Tarheels think that they can compete with the SEC? And why would they try?

'North Carolina – and the rest of the leftovers...'

(06-22-2023 12:17 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:49 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 12:13 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  [quote='bryanw1995' pid='18987150' dateline='1687287629']

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

We've seen that movie, it's UConn, and they're desperate to even get a big 12 invite right now. If UNC dropped football completely, yeah, sure, but that's far more likely to be in Duke's future rather than UNC's.

Nobody needs to drop football completely. North Carolina -- and the rest of the leftovers -- can just move back to the investment in football that they were making 25 years ago.

UNC has finished in the top ten of the AP poll twice in the last forty years, and haven't finished better than sixth nationally since joining that ACC. Why should the Tarheels think that they can compete with the SEC? And why would they try?

I can think of 20-30m reasons that they'll try. Again, if basketball as the primary with football secondary is the preferred mode, then why is UConn so desperate to join the big 12? It's because of their football and the huge revenues boost that they'd get by moving. Do you think that UConn cares more about sports, and sports revenues, than UNC?

I'm not saying that UNC CAN'T decide to de-emphasize football and focus most of their efforts on basketball, I'm just saying that they WON'T. I mean, I guess they could, and cede most of the sports fan in the state to NC State...

Alabama just completed a $600,000,000 athletic facility, not including the $100,000,000 the just spent to renovate their stadium, which has had more than $115,000,000 invested in it for increasing capacity since I graduated in 2005.

LSU, Florida, Ohio State, Georgia, Michigan, Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, and maybe a handful of other programs out there will keep up with those sort of investments, but for UNC, trying to keep up with major college football is a fool's errand.

As for UConn, they are currently in no-man's land for football, but they paid $20,000,000 to leave the AAC and join the Big East.

(06-22-2023 12:17 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:49 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 12:13 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 11:14 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  [quote='bryanw1995' pid='18987150' dateline='1687287629']

Isn't that what just about everyone said about the Catholic Seven when they split from the Big East? Ten years and three national championships later I think we can safely debunk that philosophy.

We've seen that movie, it's UConn, and they're desperate to even get a big 12 invite right now. If UNC dropped football completely, yeah, sure, but that's far more likely to be in Duke's future rather than UNC's.

Nobody needs to drop football completely. North Carolina -- and the rest of the leftovers -- can just move back to the investment in football that they were making 25 years ago.

UNC has finished in the top ten of the AP poll twice in the last forty years, and haven't finished better than sixth nationally since joining that ACC. Why should the Tarheels think that they can compete with the SEC? And why would they try?

I can think of 20-30m reasons that they'll try. Again, if basketball as the primary with football secondary is the preferred mode, then why is UConn so desperate to join the big 12? It's because of their football and the huge revenues boost that they'd get by moving. Do you think that UConn cares more about sports, and sports revenues, than UNC?

I'm not saying that UNC CAN'T decide to de-emphasize football and focus most of their efforts on basketball, I'm just saying that they WON'T. I mean, I guess they could, and cede most of the sports fan in the state to NC State...

Carolina is at a good place right now as far as football investments. If for some reason Vandy, Northwestern, and Minnesota start out recruiting the Heels in basketball because of a higher TV payout*, then perhaps the university will entertain a move when the GOR expires.


* I actually laughed at the ridiculousness of that statement