JMUDunk
Rootin' fer Dukes, bud
Posts: 29,648
Joined: Jan 2013
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I Root For: Freedom
Location: Shmocation
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And there it is: Jack Smith tampered with the evidence
(06-14-2023 05:50 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (06-14-2023 04:34 PM)bullet Wrote: (06-14-2023 03:49 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (06-14-2023 11:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So we agree that Hillary actively obstructed.
Ive never said otherwise.
Quote:He made disclosures when he was about to get caught.
Quite the omniscience present in that statement. At best, you (nor I) have clue.
In the 'stuff in the files' issue -- I have crap in storage for my legal files that I do not have clue what is in there. Nor have I had a clue for 15 years or so.
Yet Joe is omniscient over a box in his garage for 20 years.
Okay.....
Quote:Quote:You are intent on stretching the equivalence to Biden, so much you are rendering the word 'willfull' pretty much bereft of meaning.
I don't see how Biden's conduct was not willful. Are you saying that over a period of 20+ years, multiple documents just hopped into his briefcase as he was leaving for home? I find it far more likely that Biden knew exactly what he was removing, and did so intentionally. One of the indicia of intent is repetition, and Biden clearly took classified material home (and other places) repeatedly.
You find it more likely ---- exactly how? That is excepting your pre- bias on the matter.......
Quote:It appears the major differentiators are:
1. Biden didn't seemingly actively plan the theft of documents. I don't see how you get that.
Uhhh.... lack of any substantive proof that Joe said 'I want this'.
Quote:2. Biden didn't show the active warplan map of N Korea to Kid Rock. Biden and Kid Rock weren't friends. We don't know whom Biden might have shown anything
3. Biden didn't show off another (maybe the same) war plan to some journalist ghost writer. See comment above re: Kid Rock.
I dont see any proof or any stories that he did. Unlike the story related about Trump from Kid Rock and the other one detailed in the indictment. I look forward to your details on exactly where/whom/how Biden detailed his files to.
Quote:4. Biden didn't openly brag to journalists/ ghost writers that he had possession of some really cool top secret stuff.I think pretty much every journalist and/or ghost writer knows the presidents have some really cool top secret stuff. If it's known, it ain't classified.
Did you even read the conversation with the ghost writer in the indictment? If not, please do so, then respond to this point.
Quote:4. Biden volunteered the fact that he had some papers, ostensibly when he found out -- Trump lied through his teeth continuously about his nut trove. Not to excuse Trump's behaviour, but it's a whole lot easier to come clean in front of people that you know are going to cover up to protect you, rather than people that you know are out to get you.
And still no proof that Biden is untruthful about that. Just your 'gut hunch' at play....
Quote:5. Biden consented to full searches -- Trump played a three card monte with his lawyers designed to hide the papers even from them. Again, not to excuse Trump's behaviour, but this is hardly of comparable import to what Hillary, if not Biden, did.
Mixing and matching details of a single issue with another doesnt do you well here.
Quote:6. Trump knowingly had a false attestation submitted for him, knowing he had actively removed 45 of 60 boxes from the the search his own attorneys performed. This has been alleged, but asking for a friend, do we have evidence of this or just allegations?
Video proof as related in the indictment. I guess the UFO / Feds are busily falsifying the videos they denote there. Must be a ***** to find a good stand-in for Nauta.
Quote:I think you are way overplaying Biden's "cooperation." I think he, or someone in his administration, realized that after Trump he was very likely to be next target, and decided to cut his losses by coming clean. I don't see that as being voluntary in any way, shape, or form.
Im glad you 'think' that. I think blue is better color than green. I also think that there wasnt a giant conspiracy by the CIA/ Cuba/ Mob to off JFK. Absent any proof on the latter, thats all it rises to -- an opinion.
Do you have any tangible item that goes to the matter that you say of Biden's cooperation, as opposed to you 'think' it?
What I do know is that Biden came forth with the stuff w/o being asked. I do know that he gave consent to searches for that property and for others. More than a few others.
Where exactly and in what form did Biden not cooperate with the investigation?
Quote:Quote:Dont get me wrong -- there are plenty of reasons to not like a Biden presidency. Trying to shoehorn Biden's document issue into an equivalence with Trump's is a real stretch.
I'm not shoehorning it into an equivalence. If anything, I think it is potentially a far, far greater offense.
I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me.
So President Trump willfully drove 10 miles over the speed limit on the interstate. Biden was drunk and drove on the sidewalk in New York City.
And if you think what Trump did was any more intentional than Hillary, you are hopeless. She deliberately drove on the sidewalk in New York City.
Nice try at obfuscation and an A++++ at attempt at whadaboutism.
Instead of really stupid and misleading analogies lets do actual facts.
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Hillary used an illegal outside server to store messages, some of which were Classified. She may very well have done that act with classified messages willfully, at the very least grossly negligent. No doubt.
She was under Congressional subpoena for the server, which she had bleachbitted and hammered. Yes, an act of obstruction, an obstruction of Congress.
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Trump left with hundreds of classified documents in physical form. Which he has numerous times said were 'his documents'. They arent. They are the documents of the Executive Branch, not DJT.
When queried about their return, he blew the Archives off. When he did relent, he sent back several classified docs, which the NARA then brought in the DOJ/ FBI. Other back and forths ensued, with Trump being non-cooperative. Finally, done with the **** of having to jump through hell to get their own documents back, the DOJ obtains a subpoena for a small subset of the docs that Trump had squirreled away.
We now know from his own attorneys' testimonies that Trump actively obstructed the subpoena. He directed them to lie, which they told him they would not. He directed them to not comply, which they advised against. he then short circuited the search by having scores of boxes moved to a place where his own attorneys would not search. And then induced them to submit a declaration that he knew to be false.
Then..... the roof falls when the DOJ says to Trump FO we know you have the stuff, executes a search and seizure, and finds troves of HIGHLY classified documents scattered about MAL.
They undertake an multi-month investigation that exposed a very active intent to deceive and obstruct the subpoena and many actions that followed.
In short, it is painfully obvious that the document retention by Trump was willful and intentional -- to the point that an extensive obstruction was undertaken. And Trump continues to expose the willfullness --- even last night referring to the even the 31 items the subjects of the indictment as 'my documents'. Multiple times.
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Biden -- what we know is that *he* approached the FBI regarding documents. And, after the DOJ asked, Biden consented to a full search of the property *and* to multiple others.
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As to the bolded -- please learn to read. I havent once said that Trump's issues were worse than Hillary's. That is like the fifth or sixth fing time I have said that, or said that Hillary should have been charged, just in the last 24 hours or so.
Its like this entire fing board is bound and intent on making of scarecrow arguments, and apparently dont even bother to fing read the posts before reacting.
Errrr,
So Sloe* was POTUS when in possession of those documents?!?
How many counts on how many of those Docs in a Senator or VP catch?
Be clear and fair. I’ll wait for the call off air.
Sillytime
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