(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:27 PM)maximus Wrote:  Pay attention taint,

Funny, I thought you might have graduated from 7th grade discussion habits. Maybe not.

I am impressed at your fixation on trannies and taint. Is there something you arent telling us?

You're fixation my man... I'm just calling out the obvious.

Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.



Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(06-14-2023 07:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:35 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  They make you mad bro?

Not in the slightest amigo. Kind of perversely fun to see the idiots act full idiot.

But then again, maybe I shouldnt. Some of the real stupid might think they are a Warrior Way / Real Life GI Joe schtick, and lose it.

Or just get fixated like some poor kid with autism, but horribly, not autism itself.

Is it Wapner time for you yet, Barteet?

I'm a genuinely peaceful man old hoss. Is that why I don't know what a Wapner is?

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

He gets frustrated because he takes himself so seriously and can't understand why no one else does.

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:27 PM)maximus Wrote:  Pay attention taint,

Funny, I thought you might have graduated from 7th grade discussion habits. Maybe not.

I am impressed at your fixation on trannies and taint. Is there something you arent telling us?

You're fixation my man... I'm just calling out the obvious.

Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

(06-14-2023 07:56 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:35 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  They make you mad bro?

Not in the slightest amigo. Kind of perversely fun to see the idiots act full idiot.

But then again, maybe I shouldnt. Some of the real stupid might think they are a Warrior Way / Real Life GI Joe schtick, and lose it.

Or just get fixated like some poor kid with autism, but horribly, not autism itself.

Is it Wapner time for you yet, Barteet?

I'm a genuinely peaceful man old hoss. Is that why I don't know what a Wapner is?

Bad cross between a warrior and Rain Man I guess.

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, I thought you might have graduated from 7th grade discussion habits. Maybe not.

I am impressed at your fixation on trannies and taint. Is there something you arent telling us?

You're fixation my man... I'm just calling out the obvious.

Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Taint is your new name just like Commie Tom's new name is Subway Tom....

This is after you both continued to excuse sickos messing with kids. It's not hard. I have no love lost for creeps.

No offense.

Now keep up the Biden defense, it's impressive.

Now about that bet, 5k, 10k, 20k? Put your money where your mouth is.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(06-14-2023 08:11 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  You're fixation my man... I'm just calling out the obvious.

Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Taint is your new name just like Commie Tom's new name is Subway Tom....

This is after you both continued to excuse sickos messing with kids. It's not hard. I have no love lost for creeps.

No offense.

Now keep up the Biden defense, it's impressive.

Now about that bet, 5k, 10k, 20k? Put your money where your mouth is.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

My new name for you is 7th grade dropout. That seems to be your discourse schtick.

Dont agree with someone -- just call them a name. Awesome.

You are making a damn good case to make abortion free, easy and always legal.

No, no, no, no I'm 7th grade dropout. You promised.

(06-14-2023 08:19 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:11 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Taint is your new name just like Commie Tom's new name is Subway Tom....

This is after you both continued to excuse sickos messing with kids. It's not hard. I have no love lost for creeps.

No offense.

Now keep up the Biden defense, it's impressive.

Now about that bet, 5k, 10k, 20k? Put your money where your mouth is.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

My new name for you is 7th grade dropout. That seems to be your discourse schtick.

Dont agree with someone -- just call them a name. Awesome.

You are making a damn good case to make abortion free, easy and always legal.

You can call me whatever you want...

Now about that bet

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 06:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, I thought you might have graduated from 7th grade discussion habits. Maybe not.

I am impressed at your fixation on trannies and taint. Is there something you arent telling us?

You're fixation my man... I'm just calling out the obvious.

Im not the one going down the worst of 7th grade debate, dude. Im not the one doing nothing but saying 'taint' and 'trannie'.

Maximus debate at its finest.

Go throw your 7th grade level hissy fit somewhere else. Act your fing age. Or not, and continue down the best of the middle school style debate.

Good grief.

I look forward to the issues that bring Biden's docs into the willful world. Hopefully without the empty ass rhetoric that seems to be the best you can manage, son.

God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Max, is that where he thinks it started?

(06-14-2023 08:25 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:19 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:11 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 07:53 PM)maximus Wrote:  God bless your little heart taint,

You act like a sanctimonious ass on this page, calling people names, running your trap, acting like some middle of the road holier than thou asswipe. Literally everyone sees through your BS.

Don't preach at me or anyone else doing the same to you. If you dont like people hitting back, gtf off this board.

Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Taint is your new name just like Commie Tom's new name is Subway Tom....

This is after you both continued to excuse sickos messing with kids. It's not hard. I have no love lost for creeps.

No offense.

Now keep up the Biden defense, it's impressive.

Now about that bet, 5k, 10k, 20k? Put your money where your mouth is.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

My new name for you is 7th grade dropout. That seems to be your discourse schtick.

Dont agree with someone -- just call them a name. Awesome.

You are making a damn good case to make abortion free, easy and always legal.

You can call me whatever you want...

Now about that bet

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

Please bet him a permanent ban. We will see if he’s more honorable than that tulame welcher.

(06-14-2023 08:39 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:25 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:19 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:11 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 08:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Here is the start between you and me, amigo:


Me (to someone else): I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me. (might I add with zero name calling in that sub-thread)

You: Pay attention taint,

Hmmmm. I guess you dont quite clue into that there, do you son....

Fing brilliant.

You call me taint out of the blue, in response to a sub-thread that had zero name calling, then throw a fing hissy fit above about how I started it.

Geezus H Krist you are a true model of a dense one. Lolz.

I left out the other ones after that that I didnt respond to until later.

God you are amazingly ignorant.... <slow clap> Bravo.....

Yep, you take the stupid cake for the day. No doubt.

Taint is your new name just like Commie Tom's new name is Subway Tom....

This is after you both continued to excuse sickos messing with kids. It's not hard. I have no love lost for creeps.

No offense.

Now keep up the Biden defense, it's impressive.

Now about that bet, 5k, 10k, 20k? Put your money where your mouth is.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

My new name for you is 7th grade dropout. That seems to be your discourse schtick.

Dont agree with someone -- just call them a name. Awesome.

You are making a damn good case to make abortion free, easy and always legal.

You can call me whatever you want...

Now about that bet

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

Please bet him a permanent ban. We will see if he’s more honorable than that tulame welcher.

I'll bet him whatever he wants...




Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(06-14-2023 08:22 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  No, no, no, no I'm 7th grade dropout. You promised.

Lolz. Kudos on that one. You dont know how accurate that comes across.

But (seriously) 'bravo'.

(06-14-2023 05:50 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 04:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 03:49 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 11:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So we agree that Hillary actively obstructed.

Ive never said otherwise.

Quote:He made disclosures when he was about to get caught.

Quite the omniscience present in that statement. At best, you (nor I) have clue.

In the 'stuff in the files' issue -- I have crap in storage for my legal files that I do not have clue what is in there. Nor have I had a clue for 15 years or so.

Yet Joe is omniscient over a box in his garage for 20 years.

Okay.....

Quote:

Quote:You are intent on stretching the equivalence to Biden, so much you are rendering the word 'willfull' pretty much bereft of meaning.

I don't see how Biden's conduct was not willful. Are you saying that over a period of 20+ years, multiple documents just hopped into his briefcase as he was leaving for home? I find it far more likely that Biden knew exactly what he was removing, and did so intentionally. One of the indicia of intent is repetition, and Biden clearly took classified material home (and other places) repeatedly.

You find it more likely ---- exactly how? That is excepting your pre- bias on the matter.......

Quote:It appears the major differentiators are:
1. Biden didn't seemingly actively plan the theft of documents. I don't see how you get that.

Uhhh.... lack of any substantive proof that Joe said 'I want this'.

Quote:2. Biden didn't show the active warplan map of N Korea to Kid Rock. Biden and Kid Rock weren't friends. We don't know whom Biden might have shown anything
3. Biden didn't show off another (maybe the same) war plan to some journalist ghost writer. See comment above re: Kid Rock.

I dont see any proof or any stories that he did. Unlike the story related about Trump from Kid Rock and the other one detailed in the indictment. I look forward to your details on exactly where/whom/how Biden detailed his files to.

Quote:4. Biden didn't openly brag to journalists/ ghost writers that he had possession of some really cool top secret stuff.I think pretty much every journalist and/or ghost writer knows the presidents have some really cool top secret stuff. If it's known, it ain't classified.

Did you even read the conversation with the ghost writer in the indictment? If not, please do so, then respond to this point.

Quote:4. Biden volunteered the fact that he had some papers, ostensibly when he found out -- Trump lied through his teeth continuously about his nut trove. Not to excuse Trump's behaviour, but it's a whole lot easier to come clean in front of people that you know are going to cover up to protect you, rather than people that you know are out to get you.

And still no proof that Biden is untruthful about that. Just your 'gut hunch' at play....

Quote:5. Biden consented to full searches -- Trump played a three card monte with his lawyers designed to hide the papers even from them. Again, not to excuse Trump's behaviour, but this is hardly of comparable import to what Hillary, if not Biden, did.

Mixing and matching details of a single issue with another doesnt do you well here.

Quote:6. Trump knowingly had a false attestation submitted for him, knowing he had actively removed 45 of 60 boxes from the the search his own attorneys performed. This has been alleged, but asking for a friend, do we have evidence of this or just allegations?

Video proof as related in the indictment. I guess the UFO / Feds are busily falsifying the videos they denote there. Must be a ***** to find a good stand-in for Nauta.

Quote:I think you are way overplaying Biden's "cooperation." I think he, or someone in his administration, realized that after Trump he was very likely to be next target, and decided to cut his losses by coming clean. I don't see that as being voluntary in any way, shape, or form.

Im glad you 'think' that. I think blue is better color than green. I also think that there wasnt a giant conspiracy by the CIA/ Cuba/ Mob to off JFK. Absent any proof on the latter, thats all it rises to -- an opinion.

Do you have any tangible item that goes to the matter that you say of Biden's cooperation, as opposed to you 'think' it?

What I do know is that Biden came forth with the stuff w/o being asked. I do know that he gave consent to searches for that property and for others. More than a few others.

Where exactly and in what form did Biden not cooperate with the investigation?

Quote:

Quote:Dont get me wrong -- there are plenty of reasons to not like a Biden presidency. Trying to shoehorn Biden's document issue into an equivalence with Trump's is a real stretch.

I'm not shoehorning it into an equivalence. If anything, I think it is potentially a far, far greater offense.

I typically find willful offenses replete with active obstruction worse. Maybe that is just me.

So President Trump willfully drove 10 miles over the speed limit on the interstate. Biden was drunk and drove on the sidewalk in New York City.
And if you think what Trump did was any more intentional than Hillary, you are hopeless. She deliberately drove on the sidewalk in New York City.

Nice try at obfuscation and an A++++ at attempt at whadaboutism.

Instead of really stupid and misleading analogies lets do actual facts.

====

Hillary used an illegal outside server to store messages, some of which were Classified. She may very well have done that act with classified messages willfully, at the very least grossly negligent. No doubt.

She was under Congressional subpoena for the server, which she had bleachbitted and hammered. Yes, an act of obstruction, an obstruction of Congress.

====

Trump left with hundreds of classified documents in physical form. Which he has numerous times said were 'his documents'. They arent. They are the documents of the Executive Branch, not DJT.

When queried about their return, he blew the Archives off. When he did relent, he sent back several classified docs, which the NARA then brought in the DOJ/ FBI. Other back and forths ensued, with Trump being non-cooperative. Finally, done with the **** of having to jump through hell to get their own documents back, the DOJ obtains a subpoena for a small subset of the docs that Trump had squirreled away.

We now know from his own attorneys' testimonies that Trump actively obstructed the subpoena. He directed them to lie, which they told him they would not. He directed them to not comply, which they advised against. he then short circuited the search by having scores of boxes moved to a place where his own attorneys would not search. And then induced them to submit a declaration that he knew to be false.

Then..... the roof falls when the DOJ says to Trump FO we know you have the stuff, executes a search and seizure, and finds troves of HIGHLY classified documents scattered about MAL.

They undertake an multi-month investigation that exposed a very active intent to deceive and obstruct the subpoena and many actions that followed.

In short, it is painfully obvious that the document retention by Trump was willful and intentional -- to the point that an extensive obstruction was undertaken. And Trump continues to expose the willfullness --- even last night referring to the even the 31 items the subjects of the indictment as 'my documents'. Multiple times.

----

Biden -- what we know is that *he* approached the FBI regarding documents. And, after the DOJ asked, Biden consented to a full search of the property *and* to multiple others.

-----

As to the bolded -- please learn to read. I havent once said that Trump's issues were worse than Hillary's. That is like the fifth or sixth fing time I have said that, or said that Hillary should have been charged, just in the last 24 hours or so.

Its like this entire fing board is bound and intent on making of scarecrow arguments, and apparently dont even bother to fing read the posts before reacting.

Errrr,

So Sloe* was POTUS when in possession of those documents?!?

How many counts on how many of those Docs in a Senator or VP catch?

Be clear and fair. I’ll wait for the call off air.

Sillytime

I see one legitimate threat to our democratic republic in these events--and that is from DOJ/FBI/CIA.

Of the three politicians--Hillary, Biden, and Trump--I see Hillary's violations as clearly the most serious of the three, with second place between Trump or Biden yet to be determined upon clearer understanding of exactly what Biden did, but leaning Biden at this point. Keep in mind that I am making that determination based upon an understanding of the national security laws from a military perspective, where intent is not a requisite element of any crime and where severity is determined based upon the likelihood of disclosure to enemies.

But even Hillary's don't rise to the level of threat posed by DOJ/FBI/CIA. The problem is that I don't really know how to tackle that monster. Since the passage of the patRIOT act (and its progeny, which I will refer to inclusively as patRIOT act), who knows what private information they have about any and every American citizen (and probably far too damned little about foreign threat actors). They would almost certainly use any such information, plus any more that they could obtain by hook or crook, to attack and destroy anyone who tried to take them on. Their reaction toward one Donald John Trump clearly shows that.

The patRIOT act has created exactly the monster that I feared that it would. I hope my conservative friends who supported it so strongly, and told me that if I had done nothing wrong I had nothing to worry about, now understand where I was coming from. The problem is that even if we have done nothing wrong, there are very few of us whose entire lives can stand up to the kind of, "Show me the person and I'll find you a crime," scrutiny that DOJ/FBI/CIA employ. Maybe we start by repealing the patRIOT act, or at least putting in some protections. I have long thought that, for one, the FISA court needed an ad litem to represent the interests of the target and make sure that all FISA requests were done by the numbers and properly authenticated. So, by the way, at one time, did Adam Schiff, who actually authored a bill to implement that provision, and submitted it in several congressional sessions, only to pull it back when he found out how conveniently the FISA process could support his own character assassination efforts. I'd put the likes of Schiff pretty high on that list of threats to our democratic republic while you're at it.

If I see DOJ/FBI/CIA as the biggest threat to our democratic republic, then the more we allow them to prosecute and/or pursue individuals selectively, the more we put our nation in grave danger. No democratic republic needs a Gestapo/KGB, and no tyrannical regime survives without one.

(06-15-2023 02:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I see one legitimate threat to our democratic republic in these events--and that is from DOJ/FBI/CIA.

Of the three politicians--Hillary, Biden, and Trump--I see Hillary's violations as clearly the most serious of the three, with second place between Trump or Biden yet to be determined upon clearer understanding of exactly what Biden did, but leaning Biden at this point. Keep in mind that I am making that determination based upon an understanding of the national security laws from a military perspective, where intent is not a requisite element of any crime and where severity is determined based upon the likelihood of disclosure to enemies.

But even Hillary's don't rise to the level of threat posed by DOJ/FBI/CIA. The problem is that I don't really know how to tackle that monster. Since the passage of the patRIOT act (and its progeny, which I will refer to inclusively as patRIOT act), who knows what private information they have about any and every American citizen (and probably far too damned little about foreign threat actors). They would almost certainly use any such information, plus any more that they could obtain by hook or crook, to attack and destroy anyone who tried to take them on. Their reaction toward one Donald John Trump clearly shows that.

The patRIOT act has created exactly the monster that I feared that it would. I hope my conservative friends who supported it so strongly, and told me that if I had done nothing wrong I had nothing to worry about, now understand where I was coming from. The problem is that even if we have done nothing wrong, there are very few of us whose entire lives can stand up to the kind of, "Show me the person and I'll find you a crime," scrutiny that DOJ/FBI/CIA employ. Maybe we start by repealing the patRIOT act, or at least putting in some protections. I have long thought that, for one, the FISA court needed an ad litem to represent the interests of the target and make sure that all FISA requests were done by the numbers and properly authenticated. So, by the way, at one time, did Adam Schiff, who actually authored a bill to implement that provision, and submitted it in several congressional sessions, only to pull it back when he found out how conveniently the FISA process could support his own character assassination efforts. I'd put the likes of Schiff pretty high on that list of threats to our democratic republic while you're at it.

If I see DOJ/FBI/CIA as the biggest threat to our democratic republic, then the more we allow them to prosecute and/or pursue individuals selectively, the more we put our nation in grave danger. No democratic republic needs a Gestapo/KGB, and no tyrannical regime survives without one.

I agree 100%. I did not have a firm opinion on the Patriot act at the time. Thinking about it now I understand that the garbage in DC are all simply playing a game of us against them no holds barred. They really don’t give a chit about the country. Only their side winning some inside DC game. I feel most of the time that the chance to get the country back has passed. They have successfully caused normally sane people to question everything, attack sanity and attack common sense. We are probably doomed to decay and eventual bloodshed.