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Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
It seems very likely to me, considering the following factors:

1. If the deal is with Apple, they want the maximum secrecy so we hear about the GoR before the media deal.

2. UConn and Zaga discussion during the B12 meeting indicates Yormark couldn’t get any Pac schools.

3. The Big Ten “blood on their hand” theory does not sound credible.

4. The ACC schools want instant revenue boost meaning any incoming schools need to take much smaller share given ESPN would only pay pro rata. If Apple pays good money, the Pac schools won’t move. The ACC may still want some type of partnership.

5. WSU and Colorado Board meetings on Friday

6. June is a good time to invite SDSU and the Pac presidents cannot afford to wait longer.
06-07-2023 12:28 PM
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UpStreamRedTeam Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:08 PM)Boots Wrote:  Let's say the PAC stays together and no one leaves.

What does the Big 12 do? Still expand?

I think that depends on if the PAC 12 take SDSU. If they didn't, I would go after them to cut off their access to southern California. If they did, I would hold tight for a while and see what happens with the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2023 12:29 PM by UpStreamRedTeam.)
06-07-2023 12:29 PM
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Aztecgolfer Offline
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The clear take on the WSU meeting minutes is that the board is giving President Schulz authority for the next six months to sign a grant of rights and approve a media deal the Pac-12 is able to present him, without needing to come back to the board for approval.

Washington State is not going anywhere. If the Pac-12 loses schools (which I think begins Friday), they will start backfilling with MWC schools and maybe SMU. I suspect the exodus might happen not all in one year but over two or three years, with some schools not signing the GoR.

For San Diego State, Colorado State (who seem to be 3rd line, and would not get called up unless a 3rd or 4th school exits) and any other MWC schools, June 30th is a key deadline to avoid a hefty jump in the exit fee ($17M tacked on), likely greater than the Pac-12 media rights would bring them, effectively delaying their coming on board for a year. No such deadline for SMU, as the American is 30 months, but a settlement price has been well established by several predecessors who left the league at around $16-17M (UConn, Cincy, Houston, UCF) and they have the funds to pay for the move. SMU is also willing to come in initially at a discount.

The Pac-12 has for itself a slightly different deadline, as their calendar year ends on August 1st, not June 30th like other conferences. While the time limit for a deal seems to have been reached by Colorado, Arizona is likely giving Kliavkoff a few more weeks, so I expect their possible exit to be in the July time frame. Oregon and Washington might be inclined to agree to a B1G move at a discount another year down the road, the 2025 season, should they work out a deal with Fox and the B1G (they'll take a steep discount to get in, very steep). That could buy the Pac-12 time to bring in additional MWC schools, and depending upon the media contract terms, possibly at reduced rate, much like we see UAB, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, FAU and Charlotte agreed in the AAC. (My WAG on the 4th school after SDSU, SMU and CSU is either UNLV or Fresno State)

The really major exodus could happen not now but in five years when the new contract nears expiration. Very volatile, and completely dependent upon whatever deal Kliavkoff can come up with. Not much time left for him to get it done. Hard deadlines approaching.

Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2023 12:30 PM by Aztecgolfer.)
06-07-2023 12:30 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:27 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  All 10 PAC 12 schools are staying. It seems that they signed a tv deal with more than one media partner. I bet it is with CW the other one as well.
The local affiliates might want to so PAC 12 games on the east coast? Why? They play ACC schools which seems to be part of the attraction to keep the schools in place.

I really like your contributions to this board, but you got to stop with this talk and wait until its signed sealed and delivered for your own sanity. You could end up with the proverbial egg in the face. Not that it matters so much, as it's only sports. Take out of this what you will.

You guys are looking too much into these reports that the schools will leave the PAC 12. It is the exact same thing with the Big 12. The Media harps up with clickbait articles about a doomsday for conferences to hope for a conference gets killed off. Most of the bad information about the PAC 12 came from Big 12 officials. They do have a reason for trying to get schools to jump, and that is to sabotage their opponent conference's chances of getting a deal done. BY is the main culprit. His ego just killed Big 12 chances of getting any PAC 12 schools.
06-07-2023 12:31 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  1. I don't buy it. When a conference signs a GOR they announce it through a network sports department so the whole world knows they are off the table and secure. They don't leak it through liars and PR people with an agenda which are already doubted.

2. When a GOR is signed it will be binding, not based upon contingencies.

3. When a major network sports department states it and it is not based upon contingencies, I'll believe it.

Canzano said it was agreed on, didn't say it was signed.

So the Pac-10 has worked out the terms of their GOR and of their "unequal revenue sharing" (bonus payments for making CFP, looks like). Which is great -- provided they have a media contract that keeps them from jumping to the Big 12.

I believe that they have completed a tentative GOR agreement, including performance bonuses apparently. Doesn't mean they have a media agreement that all 10 will sign rather than jump.
06-07-2023 12:31 PM
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Aztecgolfer Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:29 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:08 PM)Boots Wrote:  Let's say the PAC stays together and no one leaves.

What does the Big 12 do? Still expand?

I think that depends on if the PAC 12 take SDSU. If they didn't, I would go after them to cut off their access to southern California. If they did, I would hold tight for a while and see what happens with the ACC.

Again, the PAC will add SDSU, that has been "known" since November. Even if the B12 offered a bit more, SDSU's president wants the PAC.
06-07-2023 12:32 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:24 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Last year, Apple announced its MLB and MSL deal on the last day of their WWDC. Were they to do the same this year, it would be announced on Friday.

GK could very well pull this off. We are going to know very soon. If we don't get something out of CU in the next 24 hours, they're probably staying. This is the least exciting prospect as far as realignment excitement, but man, you got all these public meetings on Friday. This is going to be a bigger turn around that the Big 12/PAC 16 debacle if it all works in the PAC12's favor.

I've already had visions of Apple TV+ promos with Deion in the white cowboy hat and big smile, so I can say that it's definitely a possibility. I'd rather see Prime in the Big 12, but I'm not in the mood for the Armageddon scenario just yet of all 4C leaving. My guess is if it gets done, Apple upped the offer by some margin.

(06-07-2023 12:30 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.

And now, you just lost all credibility with that. But who cares, no one is going to have the time stamp when posting here in 2030.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2023 12:34 PM by RUScarlets.)
06-07-2023 12:32 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:05 PM)Usajags Wrote:  No way in hell any school signed away their GOR with no media deal agreed on. You don’t just give that away for free. Ask the ACC members what they think of GOR deals.

The GOR is negotiated and agreed, not signed. It's not binding until it's signed.
06-07-2023 12:32 PM
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:28 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  It seems very likely to me, considering the following factors:

1. If the deal is with Apple, they want the maximum secrecy so we hear about the GoR before the media deal.

2. UConn and Zaga discussion during the B12 meeting indicates Yormark couldn’t get any Pac schools.

3. The Big Ten “blood on their hand” theory does not sound credible.

4. The ACC schools want instant revenue boost meaning any incoming schools need to take much smaller share given ESPN would only pay pro rata. If Apple pays good money, the Pac schools won’t move. The ACC may still want some type of partnership.

5. WSU and Colorado Board meetings on Friday

6. June is a good time to invite SDSU and the Pac presidents cannot afford to wait longer.

You missed the one factor in number 1. The reported media deal is with multiple partners and not just with Apple. Second, would the PAC 12 give Comcast a stake into the PAC 12 Network as part ownership to repay the money owed? Comcast might be able to compete against the Evil Mouse that way.
06-07-2023 12:35 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  1. I don't buy it. When a conference signs a GOR they announce it through a network sports department so the whole world knows they are off the table and secure. They don't leak it through liars and PR people with an agenda which are already doubted.

2. When a GOR is signed it will be binding, not based upon contingencies.

3. When a major network sports department states it and it is not based upon contingencies, I'll believe it.

Canzano said it was agreed on, didn't say it was signed.

So the Pac-10 has worked out the terms of their GOR and of their "unequal revenue sharing" (bonus payments for making CFP, looks like). Which is great -- provided they have a media contract that keeps them from jumping to the Big 12.

I believe that they have completed a tentative GOR agreement, including performance bonuses apparently. Doesn't mean they have a media agreement that all 10 will sign rather than jump.

They do have the media rights. There was one report that it was done, but the GORs was not agreed upon yet.
06-07-2023 12:36 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:19 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  1. I don't buy it. When a conference signs a GOR they announce it through a network sports department so the whole world knows they are off the table and secure. They don't leak it through liars and PR people with an agenda which are already doubted.
....

The report doesn't say anyone has 'signed' a grant of rights. It says ten schools have agreed on the terms in the document.

Actually signing a grant is the last thing schools do, after media contracts are finalised and inked. We saw this most recently in the case of the B12.

It stands to reason that this would be coming together now. San Diego State is working against a July deadline. The PAC needs to wrap things up.

As the possibility exists of a B1G callup for some members, agreeing on the terms of a grant is bound to be more complicated in the PAC than usual. Key ingredients of the media contract the league can expect will depend very much on what terms the schools can agree to regarding broadcast rights.

If that's done, as reported, we can expect the rest of the media deal to start snapping into place.

1. Of course, signing one is the last thing.
2. Until there are completed signatures it's legally nothing.
3. I doubt San Diego State's timeline is their major concern. Their major concern is reaching consensus. Which I might add they have to do before bringing SDS on board. Maybe they get it done, maybe they don't. Heretofore the belief that they can or will get it done seems to be more ephemeral than palpable. We'll see.
06-07-2023 12:37 PM
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:30 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.

That's interesting about UCLA. Is some talk getting around the UC campuses?

If the PAC holds together it can be in a very different situation in 5-7 years. The league has been trying to negotiate while reeling from Larry Scott miscues, a wound the size of LA, and the present media market. All of these are short-lived crises. The league gets a chance to catch its breath and make some longer-range plans.
06-07-2023 12:39 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:30 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The clear take on the WSU meeting minutes is that the board is giving President Schulz authority for the next six months to sign a grant of rights and approve a media deal the Pac-12 is able to present him, without needing to come back to the board for approval.

Washington State is not going anywhere. If the Pac-12 loses schools (which I think begins Friday), they will start backfilling with MWC schools and maybe SMU. I suspect the exodus might happen not all in one year but over two or three years, with some schools not signing the GoR.

For San Diego State, Colorado State (who seem to be 3rd line, and would not get called up unless a 3rd or 4th school exits) and any other MWC schools, June 30th is a key deadline to avoid a hefty jump in the exit fee ($17M tacked on), likely greater than the Pac-12 media rights would bring them, effectively delaying their coming on board for a year. No such deadline for SMU, as the American is 30 months, but a settlement price has been well established by several predecessors who left the league at around $16-17M (UConn, Cincy, Houston, UCF) and they have the funds to pay for the move. SMU is also willing to come in initially at a discount.

The Pac-12 has for itself a slightly different deadline, as their calendar year ends on August 1st, not June 30th like other conferences. While the time limit for a deal seems to have been reached by Colorado, Arizona is likely giving Kliavkoff a few more weeks, so I expect their possible exit to be in the July time frame. Oregon and Washington might be inclined to agree to a B1G move at a discount another year down the road, the 2025 season, should they work out a deal with Fox and the B1G (they'll take a steep discount to get in, very steep). That could buy the Pac-12 time to bring in additional MWC schools, and depending upon the media contract terms, possibly at reduced rate, much like we see UAB, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, FAU and Charlotte agreed in the AAC. (My WAG on the 4th school after SDSU, SMU and CSU is either UNLV or Fresno State)

The really major exodus could happen not now but in five years when the new contract nears expiration. Very volatile, and completely dependent upon whatever deal Kliavkoff can come up with. Not much time left for him to get it done. Hard deadlines approaching.

Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.
Canzano's track record on this stuff has been only slightly better then guys like MHver3 so I wouldn't take his stuff as gospel or anything.
06-07-2023 12:39 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
I'm hoping this circus ends either on Friday or early next week.

That way we can make room for the new circus of what happens to backfill whatever conferences need backfllls while we pile on how the sky is falling and "Conference X is doomed!" This one is now old, we need to trash talk a new conference or two for a while.
06-07-2023 12:40 PM
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Gitanole Offline
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:19 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  1. I don't buy it. When a conference signs a GOR they announce it through a network sports department so the whole world knows they are off the table and secure. They don't leak it through liars and PR people with an agenda which are already doubted.
....

The report doesn't say anyone has 'signed' a grant of rights. It says ten schools have agreed on the terms in the document.

Actually signing a grant is the last thing schools do, after media contracts are finalised and inked. We saw this most recently in the case of the B12.

It stands to reason that this would be coming together now. San Diego State is working against a July deadline. The PAC needs to wrap things up.

As the possibility exists of a B1G callup for some members, agreeing on the terms of a grant is bound to be more complicated in the PAC than usual. Key ingredients of the media contract the league can expect will depend very much on what terms the schools can agree to regarding broadcast rights.

If that's done, as reported, we can expect the rest of the media deal to start snapping into place.

1. Of course, signing one is the last thing.
2. Until there are completed signatures it's legally nothing.
3. I doubt San Diego State's timeline is their major concern. Their major concern is reaching consensus. Which I might add they have to do before bringing SDS on board. Maybe they get it done, maybe they don't. Heretofore the belief that they can or will get it done seems to be more ephemeral than palpable. We'll see.

That's the news. That they've reached consensus.
06-07-2023 12:40 PM
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Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The clear take on the WSU meeting minutes is that the board is giving President Schulz authority for the next six months to sign a grant of rights and approve a media deal the Pac-12 is able to present him, without needing to come back to the board for approval.

Washington State is not going anywhere. If the Pac-12 loses schools (which I think begins Friday), they will start backfilling with MWC schools and maybe SMU. I suspect the exodus might happen not all in one year but over two or three years, with some schools not signing the GoR.

For San Diego State, Colorado State (who seem to be 3rd line, and would not get called up unless a 3rd or 4th school exits) and any other MWC schools, June 30th is a key deadline to avoid a hefty jump in the exit fee ($17M tacked on), likely greater than the Pac-12 media rights would bring them, effectively delaying their coming on board for a year. No such deadline for SMU, as the American is 30 months, but a settlement price has been well established by several predecessors who left the league at around $16-17M (UConn, Cincy, Houston, UCF) and they have the funds to pay for the move. SMU is also willing to come in initially at a discount.

The Pac-12 has for itself a slightly different deadline, as their calendar year ends on August 1st, not June 30th like other conferences. While the time limit for a deal seems to have been reached by Colorado, Arizona is likely giving Kliavkoff a few more weeks, so I expect their possible exit to be in the July time frame. Oregon and Washington might be inclined to agree to a B1G move at a discount another year down the road, the 2025 season, should they work out a deal with Fox and the B1G (they'll take a steep discount to get in, very steep). That could buy the Pac-12 time to bring in additional MWC schools, and depending upon the media contract terms, possibly at reduced rate, much like we see UAB, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, FAU and Charlotte agreed in the AAC. (My WAG on the 4th school after SDSU, SMU and CSU is either UNLV or Fresno State)

The really major exodus could happen not now but in five years when the new contract nears expiration. Very volatile, and completely dependent upon whatever deal Kliavkoff can come up with. Not much time left for him to get it done. Hard deadlines approaching.

Keep dreaming. Arizona and Colorado is signing the GORs deal as well. Arizona State, Washington State, Utah and Oregon State have been working behind the scenes to keep any of the schools from jumping ship, and it worked. Colorado would announce they will agree to the GORs on Friday.


When is the Boise announcement?
06-07-2023 12:41 PM
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splitstud Offline
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:31 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:27 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  All 10 PAC 12 schools are staying. It seems that they signed a tv deal with more than one media partner. I bet it is with CW the other one as well.
The local affiliates might want to so PAC 12 games on the east coast? Why? They play ACC schools which seems to be part of the attraction to keep the schools in place.

I really like your contributions to this board, but you got to stop with this talk and wait until its signed sealed and delivered for your own sanity. You could end up with the proverbial egg in the face. Not that it matters so much, as it's only sports. Take out of this what you will.

You guys are looking too much into these reports that the schools will leave the PAC 12. It is the exact same thing with the Big 12. The Media harps up with clickbait articles about a doomsday for conferences to hope for a conference gets killed off. Most of the bad information about the PAC 12 came from Big 12 officials. They do have a reason for trying to get schools to jump, and that is to sabotage their opponent conference's chances of getting a deal done. BY is the main culprit. His ego just killed Big 12 chances of getting any PAC 12 schools.

DavidSt, it's not Big 12 officials calling Big 12 officials asking for straw polls. These are phone calls I've heard with my own ears. I personally have little interest in adding PAC schools to the Big 12. I think it's a misguided defensive move. But to pretend that it's not PAC schools generating the noise by reaching out to the Big 12 for info...that's just ridiculous.
06-07-2023 12:41 PM
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:41 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  “Agreed to terms” aka nothing is signed yet

Well it would be rather surprising to sign something before you agree on the terms. So this is just a step toward that.

There might be other steps that lead to signing that haven't yet been met, but this is certainly a big one.
06-07-2023 12:43 PM
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RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:39 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:30 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.

That's interesting about UCLA. Is some talk getting around the UC campuses?

If the PAC holds together it can be in a very different situation in 5-7 years. The league has been trying to negotiate while reeling from Larry Scott miscues, a wound the size of LA, and the present media market. All of these are short-lived crises. The league gets a chance to catch its breath and make some longer-range plans.

And the GERNADES being loft at them by BY and the Big 12 leaderships. The news from Mack Rhodes last week sounded like no PAC 12 schools are joining and they are looking at the better football schools still left out there. The presidents, ads and coaches are looking at bringing the best teams to the Big 12, and Mack did not sound too exciting about Gonzaga with no football or UConn which football sucks. The names that are being floated around are the top G5 programs that are winning football games which they think would help make them be as strong as the SEC and Big 10 in the long run.
06-07-2023 12:44 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Pac 12 members have agreed on terms in Grant of Rights
(06-07-2023 12:32 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(06-07-2023 12:24 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Last year, Apple announced its MLB and MSL deal on the last day of their WWDC. Were they to do the same this year, it would be announced on Friday.

GK could very well pull this off. We are going to know very soon. If we don't get something out of CU in the next 24 hours, they're probably staying. This is the least exciting prospect as far as realignment excitement, but man, you got all these public meetings on Friday. This is going to be a bigger turn around that the Big 12/PAC 16 debacle if it all works in the PAC12's favor.

I've already had visions of Apple TV+ promos with Deion in the white cowboy hat and big smile, so I can say that it's definitely a possibility. I'd rather see Prime in the Big 12, but I'm not in the mood for the Armageddon scenario just yet of all 4C leaving. My guess is if it gets done, Apple upped the offer by some margin.

(06-07-2023 12:30 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Are you missing the part that says all the 10 schools are in agreement? If anything happens to the PAC, it won't happen until 2030. At that point, even should the PAC lose UW and UO to the B1G, they would be in a position to backfill with B12 teams. That is why BY was so desperate to sabotage the PAC deal.

There is also discussion that UCLA may have "buyer's remorse" and rethink its move to the BIG come 2030. They would likely be in a position to get some financial incentives to rejoin. No one thinks USC would come back, however.

And now, you just lost all credibility with that. But who cares, no one is going to have the time stamp when posting here in 2030.

Again, the B12's claim over the PAC is its stability, they don't have a product that either the B1G or the SEC wants. Also, I don't think the B1G will add more western schools unless UCLA jumps back, they prefer Notre Dame and some of the other ACC schools. Again, they got what they really wanted in LA.

So far, I have been right about what I have been saying but feel free to contradict me.
06-07-2023 12:44 PM
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