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Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
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BeatWestern! Online
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Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
05-25-2023 02:40 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
[Image: PD5-1.jpg]

But can Ironclad piece of paper defend a well-designed end around?
05-25-2023 02:51 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
This is a great piece of journalism.

Quote:While every conference holds grant of rights agreements with its member institutions, the ACC modeled its version entirely off the Big 12 document, giving the two conferences an "identical" legal backstop, according to a source who has reviewed both documents.

That has led observer after observer to refer to the contracts with a singular adjective: "Ironclad," Bowlsby said.

So ironclad, in fact, that Big 12 legal minds developed the strategy relying on a landmark 115-year old Supreme Court case that traced its roots back to British Common Law in the 1600s. So ironclad that the Big 12 incorporated itself in Delaware, a state so business-friendly that 65% of Fortune 500 companies file their incorporation papers there.

So ironclad that the verbiage in these contracts might have saved both conferences from near-extinction.

While Texas and Oklahoma did cause significant upheaval in leaving the Big 12, it cost the programs a combined $100 million to exit the league in 2024, a year before the Big 12's grant of rights was to expire. (The schools had already notified the Big 12 they wouldn't agree to an extension of those rights.)


Quote:Those ACC schools seemingly had nowhere to go and lacked the financial will to challenge the grant of rights in court given its ironclad nature. Start with that Delaware incorporation.

"It was unusual to build a grant of rights around federal copyright law," Bowlsby explained of the Big 12's contract. "The thing that was important about that: any disputes would be heard in federal court in Delaware, not in a state court."

The Big 12 legal team had the answer when their 2012 TV deal was finalized. They needed a strategy that found a jet sweep around the 11th Amendment, which includes the concept of state sovereign immunity.

That 115-year old landmark Supreme Court case, Ex parte Young, circumvents state sovereign immunity to allow lawsuits in federal courts for injunctions against state officials if they act against federal law or the U.S. Constitution. It essentially lays the groundwork for a conference to sue a school leaving early for another conference.

The Stanford Law Review called the decision "the cornerstone of modern constitutional litigation."

Explained an attorney who has viewed the Big 12's grant of rights: "Every state has different sovereign immunity laws. Especially in Texas, it's very hard to sue a state institution like a state university. Ex parte Young is a way to try to get around those issues. It would allow you to sue the president of a university if he tried to take Team X to another conference [violating the grant of rights]."

Beyond Bowlsby, the persons behind the Big 12's grant of rights research and strategy did not wish to be identified.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 02:57 PM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
05-25-2023 02:53 PM
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GTFletch Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 02:40 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
The ACC truly has moved from 5th amongst P5 when everyone thought they were doomed (2010-2013ish) to becoming #3 in the A5/P5 landscape.... the GOR and ACC Network is what has done it. Simply amazing! Now it will be interesting in the next few years on how close the ACC can get to the SEC/BIG?
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 07:58 PM by GTFletch.)
05-25-2023 03:13 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 02:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  This is a great piece of journalism.

Quote:While every conference holds grant of rights agreements with its member institutions, the ACC modeled its version entirely off the Big 12 document, giving the two conferences an "identical" legal backstop, according to a source who has reviewed both documents.

That has led observer after observer to refer to the contracts with a singular adjective: "Ironclad," Bowlsby said.

So ironclad, in fact, that Big 12 legal minds developed the strategy relying on a landmark 115-year old Supreme Court case that traced its roots back to British Common Law in the 1600s. So ironclad that the Big 12 incorporated itself in Delaware, a state so business-friendly that 65% of Fortune 500 companies file their incorporation papers there.

So ironclad that the verbiage in these contracts might have saved both conferences from near-extinction.

As far as I know, the ACC hasn't done this. I'm pretty sure that as of 2012 or so they were incorporated in North Carolina (the time of the Maryland lawsuit).

Of course, maybe they have.
05-25-2023 03:16 PM
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UCbball21 Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 03:13 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 02:40 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
The ACC truly has moved from 5th amongst P5 and everyone think they were doomed to becoming #3 in the P5 landscape.... the GOR and ACC Network is what has done it. Simply amazing! Now it will be interesting in the next few years on how close the ACC can get to the SEC/BIG?

Oh good, the GOR has fixed ALL of the ACC's problems! Everyone is happy! /s
05-25-2023 03:35 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
IMO, best quote in the article was from Miami AD Dan Radakovich…describing the GOR: “So, not being a lawyer, I don’t know the tenets of it. But just being a lay person, it must be pretty good if no one has tried to challenge it.”
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 04:38 PM by Wahoowa84.)
05-25-2023 04:12 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 03:35 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 03:13 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 02:40 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
The ACC truly has moved from 5th amongst P5 and everyone think they were doomed to becoming #3 in the P5 landscape.... the GOR and ACC Network is what has done it. Simply amazing! Now it will be interesting in the next few years on how close the ACC can get to the SEC/BIG?

Oh good, the GOR has fixed ALL of the ACC's problems! Everyone is happy! /s

A bunch of ACC schools arent happy because they know they could probably make much more in the SEC or B1G.

I dont think anyone in the Big 12 besides Kansas is hoping for the same! The SEC or B1G arent sniffing around your house.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 04:19 PM by PicksUp.)
05-25-2023 04:19 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 02:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  This is a great piece of journalism.

Quote:While every conference holds grant of rights agreements with its member institutions, the ACC modeled its version entirely off the Big 12 document, giving the two conferences an "identical" legal backstop, according to a source who has reviewed both documents.

That has led observer after observer to refer to the contracts with a singular adjective: "Ironclad," Bowlsby said.

So ironclad, in fact, that Big 12 legal minds developed the strategy relying on a landmark 115-year old Supreme Court case that traced its roots back to British Common Law in the 1600s. So ironclad that the Big 12 incorporated itself in Delaware, a state so business-friendly that 65% of Fortune 500 companies file their incorporation papers there.

So ironclad that the verbiage in these contracts might have saved both conferences from near-extinction.

As far as I know, the ACC hasn't done this. I'm pretty sure that as of 2012 or so they were incorporated in North Carolina (the time of the Maryland lawsuit).

Of course, maybe they have.

Even if the ACC is incorporated in North Carolina, the more critical point is tying the GOR to federal copyright law, which then moves any challenge into federal court and removes any sovereign immunity defense for a public entity (as the US Supreme Court has ruled for over 100 years that it doesn’t apply with respect to contravening federal law).
05-25-2023 04:21 PM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
The bottom line is Clemson, Fl St, and Miami are stuck and can only lament their fate sealed by a very poor decision years ago.
05-25-2023 04:27 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 02:51 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  [Image: PD5-1.jpg]

But can Ironclad piece of paper defend a well-designed end around?

[Image: Reverse-bigLoss.png]
No, but the LPD can!
05-25-2023 04:31 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
Kudos to Frank for echoing what Dodd said here but much earlier.

If they are stuck until 36’, they may as well explore expansion and milk and addend whatever they can out of this contract.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 04:40 PM by RUScarlets.)
05-25-2023 04:39 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 04:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The bottom line is Clemson, Fl St, and Miami are stuck and can only lament their fate sealed by a very poor decision years ago.

Indeed. The ACC itself can alter or nullify their GoR. Right now, they are short on the necessary votes to force change.
05-25-2023 04:44 PM
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Mean Green Alum Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
Bob Thompson was on 365 Sports on Monday and went a step further, saying that he has “looked at the [ACC] GoR”, and compared to other conferences, “they all look very similar”, but “the ACC is the longest and has the most stringent clauses of all” the GoRs.



(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 05:35 PM by Mean Green Alum.)
05-25-2023 05:34 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 02:51 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  [Image: PD5-1.jpg]

But can Ironclad piece of paper defend a well-designed end around?

It's like the old Tecmo Bowl. The GoR is on defense and selected the right play.
05-25-2023 05:49 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
Time must go so slowly today for GoR deniers.

397 million seconds to go before 2036.

Tick tick tick
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 05:55 PM by random asian guy.)
05-25-2023 05:50 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 04:44 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 04:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The bottom line is Clemson, Fl St, and Miami are stuck and can only lament their fate sealed by a very poor decision years ago.

Indeed. The ACC itself can alter or nullify their GoR. Right now, they are short on the necessary votes to force change.

How many votes are required?
05-25-2023 05:55 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 05:55 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 04:44 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 04:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The bottom line is Clemson, Fl St, and Miami are stuck and can only lament their fate sealed by a very poor decision years ago.

Indeed. The ACC itself can alter or nullify their GoR. Right now, they are short on the necessary votes to force change.

How many votes are required?

Technically... ALL of them. If one votes no, the others all lose their voting rights and that one school becomes the dictator of the ACC until 2036.
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05-25-2023 06:01 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 03:35 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 03:13 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 02:40 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
The ACC truly has moved from 5th amongst P5 and everyone think they were doomed to becoming #3 in the P5 landscape.... the GOR and ACC Network is what has done it. Simply amazing! Now it will be interesting in the next few years on how close the ACC can get to the SEC/BIG?

Oh good, the GOR has fixed ALL of the ACC's problems! Everyone is happy! /s

The Hateful 8 would have much preferred the BigXII GOR to end in 2035 instead of 2025, no doubt.

The ACC's problem isn't that the GOR lasts until 2036, that's simply FSU and maybe Clemson's problem. The ACC's problem is that their media rights deal with ESPN lasts until 2036 and is undervalued. The B1G has a GOR that's effective until something like 2032, a date beyond when their newest media rights deal will expire. I think the B1G GOR stuff is even weirder though, since I think the schools granted their rights to the Big Ten (the conference) which then took that bundle of rights and granted them to the Big Ten Network (the entity jointly owned with Fox) until 2032.

People have commented on the possibility of B1G teams joining the SEC at some point, but I'm 99% certain they are also locked in by their GOR at least through 2032, possibly longer. I think the only conference without a GOR right now is the PAC (which never had one but wants one now). (EDIT: The PAC's GOR expires in 2024) The SEC has a GOR until 2033/34 per ESPN.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2023 06:33 PM by BeepBeepJeep.)
05-25-2023 06:12 PM
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RE: Dodd: ACC has the Big 12 to thank for 'ironclad' grant of rights
(05-25-2023 06:12 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 03:35 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 03:13 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  
(05-25-2023 02:40 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...urbulence/
The ACC truly has moved from 5th amongst P5 and everyone think they were doomed to becoming #3 in the P5 landscape.... the GOR and ACC Network is what has done it. Simply amazing! Now it will be interesting in the next few years on how close the ACC can get to the SEC/BIG?

Oh good, the GOR has fixed ALL of the ACC's problems! Everyone is happy! /s

The Hateful 8 would have much preferred the BigXII GOR to end in 2035 instead of 2025, no doubt.

The ACC's problem isn't that the GOR lasts until 2036, that's simply FSU and maybe Clemson's problem. The ACC's problem is that their media rights deal with ESPN lasts until 2036 and is undervalued. The B1G has a GOR that's effective until something like 2032, a date beyond when their newest media rights deal will expire. I think the B1G GOR stuff is even weirder though, since I think the schools granted their rights to the Big Ten (the conference) which then took that bundle of rights and granted them to the Big Ten Network (the entity jointly owned with Fox) until 2032.

People have commented on the possibility of B1G teams joining the SEC at some point, but I'm 99% certain they are also locked in by their GOR at least through 2032, possibly longer. I think the only conference without a GOR right now is the PAC (which never had one but wants one now). The SEC has a GOR until 2033/34 per ESPN.
PAC has one but it expires in 2024.
05-25-2023 06:29 PM
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