(05-27-2023 11:44 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 09:39 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 08:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In trying to devise a way to for the SEC to expand but also make enough ACC schools happy to jailbreak the GOR (by dissolving the league) what if the SEC sponsored a sub-league within their umbrella for your academically-minded private and pseudo-private schools.

They certainly wouldn’t get paid like the SEC but they’d be run out of the SEC office and the SEC would use their weight to ensure they had a decent tv schedule. There could potentially be some inter league scheduling between Magnolia schools and their geographic SEC rivals (i.e. preservation of Tenn-Vandy, UGA-GT, UNC-Duke, NC ST-WF, and potentially revitalization of games involving Tulane, Rice, and SMU).

These smaller, expensive schools have a following that has a niche value to advertisers—their fans and alumni are wealthy demographic and present an opportunity to pair advertising for high end products and services to an audience that can afford them.

What might Magnolia look like:

Vanderbilt
GT
Duke
WF
Tulane
Rice
SMU
BC (fb only)
Syracuse (fb only)
Army (fb only)
Navy (fb only)

Notice I’ve got 7 full members there so that they’ll qualify for their own autobid in the NCAA tournaments.

Thoughts?

Unless you're simply attempting to aggregate a snobbish academia first association, it would make sense to include Memphis in such a conference since its an athletic conference.

Uh, in all honesty, being in that conference would be an insult to Memphis, IMO.

Muskie, you could add Tulsa. Go further and upgrade Furman. The Paladins would be competitive with near all in this group.

If the Privates within FBS became excluded, or sought to form a high athletic/academic grouping, it wouldn't be a bad set-up.

Boston College
Duke
Georgetown (non-football)
Johns Hopkins (LAX)
Miami
Northwestern
Notre Dame (non-football)
Rice
SMU
Stanford
Syracuse
Tulane
USC
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest

That's a national conference that has markets in the NE, Florida, Texas, California and Midwest, with Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Washington D.C., Boston, Miami and Chicago (area) included. And each school is an elite academic institution.

(05-27-2023 08:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In trying to devise a way to for the SEC to expand but also make enough ACC schools happy to jailbreak the GOR (by dissolving the league) what if the SEC sponsored a sub-league within their umbrella for your academically-minded private and pseudo-private schools.

They certainly wouldn’t get paid like the SEC but they’d be run out of the SEC office and the SEC would use their weight to ensure they had a decent tv schedule. There could potentially be some inter league scheduling between Magnolia schools and their geographic SEC rivals (i.e. preservation of Tenn-Vandy, UGA-GT, UNC-Duke, NC ST-WF, and potentially revitalization of games involving Tulane, Rice, and SMU).

These smaller, expensive schools have a following that has a niche value to advertisers—their fans and alumni are wealthy demographic and present an opportunity to pair advertising for high end products and services to an audience that can afford them.

What might Magnolia look like:

Vanderbilt
GT
Duke
WF
Tulane
Rice
SMU
BC (fb only)
Syracuse (fb only)
Army (fb only)
Navy (fb only)

Notice I’ve got 7 full members there so that they’ll qualify for their own autobid in the NCAA tournaments.

Thoughts?

If the SEC has to buy the whole ACC, I don’t think they can leave BC and Syracuse out of both Olympic conferences. They’d have a 24-team SEC and an 8+ team ACC/Magnolia.

Also not sure they can downgrade Vanderbilt; but they may be open to a decade of parachute payments after 2032 to compete in a more fitting athletic conference.

(05-27-2023 12:41 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 11:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 10:59 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I love how people keep trying to figure out a way to force Vanderbilt out of the SEC to make room for schools that we only have lukewarm interest in. The ACC is not OUR problem, it's THEIR problem. We could add 2,4, 8 of them, whatever, and it will have only a limited impact on each individual SEC school, but it would be program altering for all the old ACC schools. Let THEM sort out their mess, or not, then let us know when they want an invite.

FYI, Vanderbilt isn't going anywhere. They're spending $300m on Athletic Facility upgrades right now. They didn't decide to spend that in hopes of joining the Magnolia League.

Well put, B-1995. This Vanderbilt man appreciates the post.

Nobody picks on my friend except me!

(05-27-2023 12:43 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 12:07 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  On the "Magnolia League" theme ...

... Memphis and Vanderbilt (the universities in general and their respective athletics programs specifically) are as different as Bill Dazzle and Kid Rock. Other than the fact that both men — in a pretentious manner, no less — go by absurd "show biz" names.

News Flash: CSNBBS poster Bill Dazzle admitted today that he is Kid Rock. Click here for details on his $ perch.

Kid Rock is to vulgarity what Bill Dazzle is to eccentricity.

Oddly, if I ever sat down with Bob Ritchie — with cold Stroh's beers in hand — to talk politics and music ... he and I might actually have an enjoyable chat despite our differences.

Years ago and related to a feature article I wrote for an arts magazine, I got to see a Bob Ritchie condo (he has since sold it, I believe) located on Nashville's tony west side. The place was packed with wall art. Some of it I found appealing but most of it was disturbingly tacky. Regardless, it was nice of him to allow me to see the place. Props to Kid Rock for that.

Fun fact: Uncle Dazzy lives within mere blocks of Kid Rock's Big Ass Honky Tonk & Rock and Roll Steakhouse. The rough-and-tumble types who frequent that joint would be puzzled were I to enter wearing my ascot and with my pet guinea pig in tow.

(05-27-2023 01:20 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  What if this Magnolia League was making the same media revenue as the SEC? Wouid Vandy be interested then?

At the minimum, Vanderbilt would have to consider the option.

(05-27-2023 01:20 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  What if this Magnolia League was making the same media revenue as the SEC? Wouid Vandy be interested then?

What if this ACC was making the same money as the SEC, despite the myriad reasons that shouldn’t happen? Would FSU still be meeting with their secret Cabal?

FYI, there is already an elite Academic Conference making SEC money, and Vandy doesn’t seem too interested in joining it.

(05-27-2023 08:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In trying to devise a way to for the SEC to expand but also make enough ACC schools happy to jailbreak the GOR (by dissolving the league) what if the SEC sponsored a sub-league within their umbrella for your academically-minded private and pseudo-private schools.

They certainly wouldn’t get paid like the SEC but they’d be run out of the SEC office and the SEC would use their weight to ensure they had a decent tv schedule. There could potentially be some inter league scheduling between Magnolia schools and their geographic SEC rivals (i.e. preservation of Tenn-Vandy, UGA-GT, UNC-Duke, NC ST-WF, and potentially revitalization of games involving Tulane, Rice, and SMU).

These smaller, expensive schools have a following that has a niche value to advertisers—their fans and alumni are wealthy demographic and present an opportunity to pair advertising for high end products and services to an audience that can afford them.

What might Magnolia look like:

Vanderbilt
GT
Duke
WF
Tulane
Rice
SMU
BC (fb only)
Syracuse (fb only)
Army (fb only)
Navy (fb only)

Notice I’ve got 7 full members there so that they’ll qualify for their own autobid in the NCAA tournaments.

Thoughts?

I don't think Army and Navy are moving. Take Memphis and Liberty.

Vandy just won the SEC baseball tournament. They won’t be going anywhere.

(05-28-2023 06:23 PM)unalions Wrote:  Vandy just won the SEC baseball tournament. They won’t be going anywhere.

There’s a big difference between competing in non-revenue sports (albeit some SEC schools probably make money off baseball) and competing the the multimillion dollar world of collegiate football.

(05-27-2023 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Georgetown (non-football)

Why non-football? With TV money there is always room for growth.

(05-28-2023 06:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 06:23 PM)unalions Wrote:  Vandy just won the SEC baseball tournament. They won’t be going anywhere.

There’s a big difference between competing in non-revenue sports (albeit some SEC schools probably make money off baseball) and competing the the multimillion dollar world of collegiate football.

They were in the semis of the SEC basketball tournament after beating Kentucky. They aren’t ever leaving the SEC.

(05-27-2023 08:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In trying to devise a way to for the SEC to expand but also make enough ACC schools happy to jailbreak the GOR (by dissolving the league) what if the SEC sponsored a sub-league within their umbrella for your academically-minded private and pseudo-private schools.

They certainly wouldn’t get paid like the SEC but they’d be run out of the SEC office and the SEC would use their weight to ensure they had a decent tv schedule. There could potentially be some inter league scheduling between Magnolia schools and their geographic SEC rivals (i.e. preservation of Tenn-Vandy, UGA-GT, UNC-Duke, NC ST-WF, and potentially revitalization of games involving Tulane, Rice, and SMU).

These smaller, expensive schools have a following that has a niche value to advertisers—their fans and alumni are wealthy demographic and present an opportunity to pair advertising for high end products and services to an audience that can afford them.

What might Magnolia look like:

Vanderbilt
GT
Duke
WF
Tulane
Rice
SMU
BC (fb only)
Syracuse (fb only)
Army (fb only)
Navy (fb only)

Notice I’ve got 7 full members there so that they’ll qualify for their own autobid in the NCAA tournaments.

Thoughts?

A private/metro/speciality league can work, I think, if Notre Dame wants to help anchor it. Jack Swarbrick has suggested that such a beast may one day become necessary.

I don't see a need for 'fb only' contrivances beyond maybe the service academies. Members would go all in.

I proposed a simple schedule merger with the ACC with apnupper and lower division in the SEC. I think that works better than adding more less revenue generating G5 and Indy teams

(05-27-2023 10:59 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I love how people keep trying to figure out a way to force Vanderbilt out of the SEC to make room for schools that we only have lukewarm interest in. The ACC is not OUR problem, it's THEIR problem. We could add 2,4, 8 of them, whatever, and it will have only a limited impact on each individual SEC school, but it would be program altering for all the old ACC schools. Let THEM sort out their mess, or not, then let us know when they want an invite.

FYI, Vanderbilt isn't going anywhere. They're spending $300m on Athletic Facility upgrades right now. They didn't decide to spend that in hopes of joining the Magnolia League.

MR.SEC devoted an entire column of his Realignment by the Numbers series to why Vanderbilt did not "fit" the SEC profile. Every one of those reasons are still valid today.

A good portion of the "ACC mess" has been created or speculated about by outside sources who have been trying to move Clemson and Florida State out of the ACC; first into the Big 12 and now into the SEC.

Somewhere in the last 20 years or so the main criteria for conference membership has shifted from "fit" to money. There are schools in some conferences that can not compete in their original leagues because they can not generate enough income.
MR.SEC listed Carolina as the second most desirable school for the SEC expansion in both his original assessment (Texas was #1) and his second assessment (Texas A&M was #1). The problem for Carolina is that the school can not compete successfully in the SEC. When MR.SEC's assessments were done Carolina's football stadium sat 63,000, now the capacity has been reduced to 51,500. That could translate to a $10 Million per home game shortfall vs. the big stadium schools of the SEC. Even Clemson and Florida State would be medium sized in the SEC. These shortfalls are much greater than the "media rights crisis" that is given as justification for relocating in the first place.

Eventually Vanderbilt will leave the SEC. Maybe they won't agree to pay players or some other money related item, but they will leave. MR.SEC suggested that Vanderbilt "fit" in the ACC, maybe they end up there, maybe not.
We'll look back on this some day and realize, none of it was worth it.

Spit balling, won't happen, but how about merge the SEC and ACC, split into 3 groups of 10, and have a little fun. Promotion/Relegation.

Top Tier - 70 mil
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Mississippi St.
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas A&M

Mid Tier - 55 mil
Arkansas
Clemson
Florida St.
Kentucky
Miami (FL)
Missouri
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Texas
Vanderbilt

Low Tier - 40 Mil
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
NC State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Everyone plays 8 conference games to allow 2 crossover games (non-conference) for rivalries. For the top and mid tiers, last automatically gets relegated, 8th and 9th play in a championship game with the winner staying in their tier. For the low and mid tiers, 1st place gets promoted and likely gets a bid into the CFP, 2nd and 3rd play in a championship game with the winner getting promoted.

To make the money easier for schools to handle the reduction or increase, it happens over a 5 year period so say if South Carolina is relegated, it would take 5 years to move down to 55 mil, and if they were to get relegated to low tier during that 5 year period, it would still take 10 years total to get to 40 mil. At any point during the 5 year decrease, if they get promoted from mid to top or low to mid to top, it would start the increase from their current payout until it gets back to 55 mil or 70 mil.

Lastly, maybe instead of everything based on football, 75-80% of the money goes for football, and then basketball it's separate set of tiers with the remaining 20-25% with the top 10 SEC schools in the top tier, the bottom 4 with OU, TX, UNC, Duke, UVA, and NC State in the mid tier, and the rest of the ACC in the low tier (11 if ND included). Maybe Women's basketball plays a small part as well (75-80% FB, 15-20% MBB, 5% WBB). The rest of the sports could stay in 2-4 geographic regions to limit travel or follow in the pro/rel setup.

If a 15 mil gap between tiers is too much, then add Kansas and West Virginia to do 4 groups of 8 with 7 conference games, 3 crossovers (non-conference) for rivalries and a 10 mil gap between tiers decreasing or increasing over 4 or 5 years. If basketball was separate, they would probably stay 3 tiers with 11 teams each.

Now would all 30-33 teams agree to any of this? I would like to say yes, but it's likely a no. This is a fun exercise to consider, and nothing probably comes from it.