(05-23-2023 05:44 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  I doubt anyone in the PAC falls to G5, ...

Any port in a storm.

(05-23-2023 04:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yup---pretty clear the Pac12 presidents see the writing on the wall and are not confident they will even be able to match current revenue levels---much less match the most recent Big12 deal.

You just said the quiet part out loud.

(05-23-2023 06:06 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 04:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yup---pretty clear the Pac12 presidents see the writing on the wall and are not confident they will even be able to match current revenue levels---much less match the most recent Big12 deal.

You just said the quiet part out loud.

Everyone has been saying that for a while. Come on.

(05-23-2023 12:34 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 12:13 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The XII expanding eastward seems like the better play to me. BYU is ...

We're doing both, baby!

Hopefully resulting in new west and east divisions, along with the central. Round-robin in each with some crossover, NFL-style. If needed, protected rivalry crossover games too.

Would not make sense for the B12 to go west unless they got a couple PAC schools and SDSU. I think if those don't happen, the B12 will cement itself in its wheelhouse, maybe add CSU and Memphis. But, one game in the Pacific Time zone every couple of weeks isn't going to make much of a dent.

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

There is always a lesson learned in every mistake made. Many times, they have a moral within them. It is the moral of a story that makes it worthwhile to read, and in life appropriate to risk one's life for. We sacrifice for ideas larger than self or we live as slaves to our petty passions, or the petty passions of others. It's always your choice.

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

It’s optimistic to think this is just on Larry Scott, or even mostly on Scott.

He’s a symptom as much as the cause. And the desire to use him as a fall guy is consistent with the PAC being blind to their flaws


Which is why we see much of the same type of blunders under George. Believing in the Alliance. Thinking they should get near P2 TV deal. That’s not George as much as it is the PAC presidents sending George on a fool’s errand

(05-23-2023 06:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

There is always a lesson learned in every mistake made. Many times, they have a moral within them. It is the moral of a story that makes it worthwhile to read, and in life appropriate to risk one's life for. We sacrifice for ideas larger than self or we live as slaves to our petty passions, or the petty passions of others. It's always your choice.

It's your choice to play the game. It's your choice to react a certain way when the ball bounces. It's your choice what life lessons to take away.

The rest is a slippery leather blob bouncing on the turf. It doesn't have passions, petty or otherwise. But it has a say.

(05-23-2023 07:04 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

There is always a lesson learned in every mistake made. Many times, they have a moral within them. It is the moral of a story that makes it worthwhile to read, and in life appropriate to risk one's life for. We sacrifice for ideas larger than self or we live as slaves to our petty passions, or the petty passions of others. It's always your choice.

It's your choice to play the game. It's your choice to react a certain way when the ball bounces. It's your choice what life lessons to take away.

The rest is a slippery piece of leather bouncing on the turf. It doesn't have passions, petty or otherwise.

As long as it has human intervention it does, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Humans sell perceptions. When false perceptions are believed and acted upon there are some epic fails. College presidents are very learned, but often not very wise. You don't get the kind of failure you have out West without a lot of learned people either being ill-informed (faulty feedback loop) or self-deluded. Academicians are some of the worst businesspeople to deal with. The mistakes in the PAC 12 were absolutely centered around business decisions driven by bizarre emphases upon specific ideas which never matched reality. So, it's the petty passions of presidents which doomed the PAC 12 Network and with it the PAC 12 and a deluded sense of self-importance which led to the extravagant appropriation from the collective pot to fund Larry's corporate vision, and his elaborate salary when compared to that of Delaney and Slive.

The moral is always self-awareness, and your awareness of others around you. That is how you gain the understanding to make a choice which will succeed. It's never been all random. People get what they deserve as it is frequently what they chose. Know thyself, know your enemy, know your people, know your surroundings, pick your battlefield and the time of engagement. The ball doesn't just bounce bubba! If you think so you lose every time!

Network people warned them about the splintering of the PACN to meet local niches. They told them they didn't have enough specific content to make it work. They chose that as it was the vision from within. They bought the most expensive corporate property instead of locating offices in a less ostentatious location and saving money. And Larry Scott earned a higher salary than any other P5 commissioner. For what? And then you have the tacit lack of accountability in reporting the overpayments to those who would have to return them. It was a colossal and avoidable fail. And it was clearly a broken feedback loop. And because the concept of the network was a choice which was advised against but adopted anyway, it does not all fall on Scott.

(05-23-2023 04:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 04:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yup---pretty clear the Pac12 presidents see the writing on the wall and are not confident they will even be able to match current revenue levels---much less match the most recent Big12 deal.

The big advantage the nB12 has over the nPAC is that it has actual football fans. For example, for this past season, even with TX and OU averages subtracted out, the nB12 football average attendance for the leftover eight was about 51,000 per game. Now yes, that is likely somewhat still inflated, because games vs TX and OU are included in that and surely inflate it a bit, but still. In contrast, the PAC average attendance was 44,000 - with USC and UCLA fully included. So I suspect the nB12 will probably draw close to 10k fans more per game in 2024 than the nPAC, if it survives.

The nPAC just doesn't care much about football. Their conference average is around UCF-level, and with the advantage over UCF of playing much bigger brand-name schools and with far deeper-rooted rivalries.

They just don't care much, and yet want to be paid like they do.

They're not that far apart. somebody put a clickbait-y list of FBS Attendance 2013-18 out a few years ago, and I cut-and-pasted it into my own google doc and played spreadsheet games. For the 10 continuing PAC members and the 12 new Big 12 members:

Conf ----Mean ------Max ------3rd Q -----Median ----1Q ----Minimum
big 12 --45,638 ----56,925 ---55,579 ----48,301 ---34,294 ----26,650
Pac 10 --46,882 ----65,781 ---50,551 ----45,888 ---43,623 ----30,790
Pac 12 --43,654 ----65,781 ----45,261 ----44,969 ---36,353 ---21,122

Pac 12 includes SDSU and SMU.

In a vacuum, the Big 12 isn't much more valuable than the PAC. But the Big 12 and Yormark caught the last train out of the station, filled ESPN and Fox' need for Saturday inventory. The Big 12 is a Kenmore refrigerator you just bought and are having installed and hooked up. The Pac-10 or 12 is a Maytag refrigerator in the store. It's pretty much just as good as the Kenmore you just bought, but you just don't need a second fridge.

(05-23-2023 06:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

There is always a lesson learned in every mistake made. Many times, they have a moral within them. It is the moral of a story that makes it worthwhile to read, and in life appropriate to risk one's life for. We sacrifice for ideas larger than self or we live as slaves to our petty passions, or the petty passions of others. It's always your choice.

Yes, this.

It’s not a surprise a group not accustomed to being off-brand, not needed, filler lacks the self-awareness to see they’re actually….TV off-brand, not needed filler college athletics. And they didn’t have or listen to anyone saying otherwise

We’ve witnessed the reaction when confronted with reality by networks and media.

(05-23-2023 07:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ....
People get what they deserve as it is frequently what they chose.
....

Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to the skillful; but time and chance happen to them all.

(05-23-2023 07:04 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 06:30 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 02:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I will say this, for a conference that is full of supposedly smart, sophisticated schools the PAC12 sure is not going at conducting business. Us trick drivers and hood rats in the BXII appear to be doing a pretty decent job.

It happens in every system where yes men become the feedback loop and your sense of self-evident importance bypasses what is happening in the world where your product meets the consumer. And it can happen to any industry, or government. When your "personal truth" doesn't match everyone else's reality you are doomed.

People seem eager to find a 'moral of the story.'

Other than Avoid turkey hires it's unlikely there is one.

There is always a lesson learned in every mistake made. Many times, they have a moral within them. It is the moral of a story that makes it worthwhile to read, and in life appropriate to risk one's life for. We sacrifice for ideas larger than self or we live as slaves to our petty passions, or the petty passions of others. It's always your choice.

It's your choice to play the game. It's your choice to react a certain way when the ball bounces. It's your choice what life lessons to take away.

The rest is a slippery leather blob bouncing on the turf. It doesn't have passions, petty or otherwise. But it has a say.

Many here will fight to the end with their claims that maybe Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma St or another leftover from the Big 12 would have saved the PAC.

Others will point to OU and Texas as being the missing pieces that would have also been their saviors.

We will never know for sure but I will always disagree that either of those moves would have prevented the current situation.

The Left coast could not and will never be able to compete with the Southeastern US when it comes to football fanaticsm.

(05-23-2023 07:32 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ....
People get what they deserve as it is frequently what they chose.
....

Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to the skillful; but time and chance happen to them all.

"Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men." Vito Corleone
You prepare for the worst, and you will likely succeed far more often than you fail.
Refusal to honestly appraise your deficits leads to failure almost every time.
Nothing is certain, but lousy choices and careless mistakes, like stupid people, get you killed. Mind, Body, Spirit, keep those in balance and you will know yourself. Know yourself and you will know your strengths and weaknesses, and who it is which compliments your abilities. Surround yourself with those you know and trust and together there is little that you can't accomplish. This formula has been the basis of most successes in life.

Personally, I would say that I would infinitely prefer to serve with the self-aware and gifted than to lead idiots. As I have examined what our universities are now producing, I fear the fate of the latter more and more.

(05-23-2023 07:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 04:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 04:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yup---pretty clear the Pac12 presidents see the writing on the wall and are not confident they will even be able to match current revenue levels---much less match the most recent Big12 deal.

The big advantage the nB12 has over the nPAC is that it has actual football fans. For example, for this past season, even with TX and OU averages subtracted out, the nB12 football average attendance for the leftover eight was about 51,000 per game. Now yes, that is likely somewhat still inflated, because games vs TX and OU are included in that and surely inflate it a bit, but still. In contrast, the PAC average attendance was 44,000 - with USC and UCLA fully included. So I suspect the nB12 will probably draw close to 10k fans more per game in 2024 than the nPAC, if it survives.

The nPAC just doesn't care much about football. Their conference average is around UCF-level, and with the advantage over UCF of playing much bigger brand-name schools and with far deeper-rooted rivalries.

They just don't care much, and yet want to be paid like they do.

They're not that far apart. somebody put a clickbait-y list of FBS Attendance 2013-18 out a few years ago, and I cut-and-pasted it into my own google doc and played spreadsheet games. For the 10 continuing PAC members and the 12 new Big 12 members:

Conf ----Mean ------Max ------3rd Q -----Median ----1Q ----Minimum
big 12 --45,638 ----56,925 ---55,579 ----48,301 ---34,294 ----26,650
Pac 10 --46,882 ----65,781 ---50,551 ----45,888 ---43,623 ----30,790
Pac 12 --43,654 ----65,781 ----45,261 ----44,969 ---36,353 ---21,122

Pac 12 includes SDSU and SMU.

In a vacuum, the Big 12 isn't much more valuable than the PAC. But the Big 12 and Yormark caught the last train out of the station, filled ESPN and Fox' need for Saturday inventory. The Big 12 is a Kenmore refrigerator you just bought and are having installed and hooked up. The Pac-10 or 12 is a Maytag refrigerator in the store. It's pretty much just as good as the Kenmore you just bought, but you just don't need a second fridge.

Sorry, you lost me at data from 5 to 10 years ago making an argument about conferences in 2023.

To lighten the mood here, Schulz just realized what Sam Smith was singing about in that Bond movie a few years back:

(05-23-2023 07:37 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Many here will fight to the end with their claims that maybe Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma St or another leftover from the Big 12 would have saved the PAC.

Others will point to OU and Texas as being the missing pieces that would have also been their saviors.

We will never know for sure but I will always disagree that either of those moves would have prevented the current situation.

The Left coast could not and will never be able to compete with the Southeastern US when it comes to football fanaticsm.

The Pac would have bought some time if they had brought OU/UT/OSU/Tech into their conference. But, OU and Texas would still have gone to the SEC upon invitation. The west coast indeed cannot compete with the South when it comes to football passion.

And, if OU/UT leave the Pac for the SEC, USC/UCLA are more likely to listen to and take a proposal from the B1G.

(05-23-2023 08:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:37 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Many here will fight to the end with their claims that maybe Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma St or another leftover from the Big 12 would have saved the PAC.

Others will point to OU and Texas as being the missing pieces that would have also been their saviors.

We will never know for sure but I will always disagree that either of those moves would have prevented the current situation.

The Left coast could not and will never be able to compete with the Southeastern US when it comes to football fanaticsm.

The Pac would have bought some time if they had brought OU/UT/OSU/Tech into their conference. But, OU and Texas would still have gone to the SEC upon invitation. The west coast indeed cannot compete with the South when it comes to football passion.

And, if OU/UT leave the Pac for the SEC, USC/UCLA are more likely to listen to and take a proposal from the B1G.

True. Texas and OU would have left sooner than USC and UCLA did. Thats for sure.

Even with those teams the PAC TV rights would never reach P2 levels.

(05-23-2023 08:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:37 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Many here will fight to the end with their claims that maybe Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma St or another leftover from the Big 12 would have saved the PAC.

Others will point to OU and Texas as being the missing pieces that would have also been their saviors.

We will never know for sure but I will always disagree that either of those moves would have prevented the current situation.

The Left coast could not and will never be able to compete with the Southeastern US when it comes to football fanaticsm.

The Pac would have bought some time if they had brought OU/UT/OSU/Tech into their conference. But, OU and Texas would still have gone to the SEC upon invitation. The west coast indeed cannot compete with the South when it comes to football passion.

And, if OU/UT leave the Pac for the SEC, USC/UCLA are more likely to listen to and take a proposal from the B1G.

Well with Texas and OU, the Pac 12 might not have been the forgotten conference the last 6 years. It might have held together. Plus, the Big 12 would have been gone with the remnants going to the Big East.

(05-23-2023 07:43 AM)DC Texan Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:32 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Is is sounding as if some PAC presidents are finally reaching the acceptance stage:

https://www.healthline.com/health/stages...f#5-stages

It's healthy that decisions are being made. Next is for WSU and OSU, as a pair, to approach the Big XII with a phase-in deal?

Maybe its be but I cant see the BIG12 adding WSU or OSU.

If Oregon, Washington, Arizona asked I'm sure they would be accepted. Based on the Media rumors the BIG12 sure has the upper hand.

Oregon & Washington aren't interested in the Big XII. Arizona is a maybe though. The Big XII landing Oregon & Washington would be on par with the Big XII landing Florida State & Clemson or the ACC landing Oklahoma & Texas. And DC Texan, the ACC almost pulled that one off!!!