I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
(05-20-2023 12:04 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
(05-20-2023 08:54 AM)andybible1995 Wrote: FDR's New Deal. That gave birth to the welfare state long before LBJ's Great Society came about.
There are so many moments in our history that could be called tipping points, that's certainly a valid contender. Since the term is so subjective there have been many events or circumstances that might qualify. Maybe that means we haven't quite reached it yet since we all have different opinions on it.
Sovereignty has always resided in the coin of the realm. The one who controls the coin, controls the realm. The United States lost control of its coin when the Federal Reserve banking system, a consortia of banks controlled and backed by wealthy elite in the United States, and Europe were permitted to make money off the United States when it borrowed from them to cover deficit spending. Initially the deficits were from military endeavors which had been unbudgeted and unforeseen. Over the decades conflict or social measures were sought or invented to spur the barrowing so that the super wealthy could take more.
In November of 1963 the United States was in debt 205 million dollars and the push was for Viet Nam and RFK said we needed to end the Federal Reserve system and return to U.S. bank notes (red seal) which were promissory notes which were pulled from circulation as silver reserves backed the dollar. Since JFK was president and RFK appointed, the removal of JFK to remove RFK was needed to prevent this. You know the rest, and what happened in '68.
Johnson passed the Federal Coinage Act of 1965 which removed silver from circulating U.S. coins and Nixon took the dollar off of gold backing. Viet Nam would rage for almost a decade and the countries debt would soar from 205 million into the 100's of billions and hit the trillions. 205 million in debt to 31 trillion in debt in 60 years under the damned Federal Reserve only made the to 15% of the wealthiest people in the world the to 3% of the wealthiest and off of our backs.
The socialism you see is typical for corporately run enterprises who see the middle class as a threat and workers without upward mobility a constant source of cheap labor. Since the wealthy elites are pushing socialism on the United States it's because with PAC money the citizens no longer control elections and cannot elect someone who can toss the damn Federal Reserve in the scrap heap and find something to back our currency, which is now their currency. The Federal Reserve is just one of the Central Banks controlling capital flow in the world. They control the coin, not us. They have the sovereignty, not us, and that is why our lives now seem so damned alien! Aliens are indeed running our lives and don't give a damn about our constitution!
While I can't disagree with any of that I remain unconvinced that we have fallen over the cliff. We remain 60 years after the Kennedy's, a fundamentally transformed nation to be sure, but America remains. We likely won't make it that much longer in our current iteration and then will be when we truly have hit a tipping point, one that transforms our entire society and abolishes it's fundamental principles of freedom and liberty as enshrined in the founding documents. I'm not sure if that will happen over-night or as part of that process which has been ongoing. As of now we at least ostensibly remain a free society.
I can sadly say, and yes, cowardly, that I hope to not be here to witness the final blows, I hope that I will have passed from this life before then. I regret that my children and theirs might fall under a tyrannical rule.
(05-20-2023 12:04 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
(05-20-2023 12:04 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
I am on board with everything you stated.
Lost on just about everybody is that Brexit represented Europe's election decision which rivaled Trump's election. Both a threat to continued moves towards globalism and both seeking to destroy the West's most stable currencies, the Pound Sterling and the U.S. Dollar. You will note how the same shenanigans and outright refusal to implement the consequences of the votes happened in both locations to somewhat different results, but the same resistance, the same Imperial arrogance of the progressive left, and again in both places with the full coercion of the press and other media to back the leftists.
We all lost our voices when corporations were permitted to acquire news services. That facet can not be overlooked in these discussions. Make all news services wholly independent of corporations and government and we have what we need to move forward. I realize that advertising money will still seek to corrupt it, but they can never own it!
The death of a free press is the death of liberty and the death of free people! If the poor weren't stirred against the middle class by design we would have the numbers to overwhelm the progressive left and return to democracy. They have to demonize the middle class to keep power.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 01:42 PM by JRsec.)
(05-20-2023 12:04 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
I am on board with everything you stated.
Lost on just about everybody is that Brexit represented Europe's election decision which rivaled Trump's election. Both a threat to continued moves towards globalism and both seeking to destroy the West's most stable currencies, the Pound Sterling and the U.S. Dollar. You will note how the same shenanigans and outright refusal to implement the consequences of the votes happened in both locations to somewhat different results, but the same resistance, the same Imperial arrogance of the progressive left, and again in both places with the full coercion of the press and other media to back the leftists.
We all lost our voices when corporations were permitted to acquire news services. That facet can not be overlooked in these discussions. Make all news services wholly independent of corporations and government and we have what we need to move forward. I realize that advertising money will still seek to corrupt it, but they can never own it!
The death of a free press is the death of liberty and the death of free people!
(05-20-2023 12:04 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: I would also say that multiple posters have hit on historic moments that are part of a collective insidious plot that has been unfolding for a long time in our country.
IMO 2020 was when they (global elites) shifted things into overdrive.
I am on board with everything you stated.
Lost on just about everybody is that Brexit represented Europe's election decision which rivaled Trump's election. Both a threat to continued moves towards globalism and both seeking to destroy the West's most stable currencies, the Pound Sterling and the U.S. Dollar. You will note how the same shenanigans and outright refusal to implement the consequences of the votes happened in both locations to somewhat different results, but the same resistance, the same Imperial arrogance of the progressive left, and again in both places with the full coercion of the press and other media to back the leftists.
We all lost our voices when corporations were permitted to acquire news services. That facet can not be overlooked in these discussions. Make all news services wholly independent of corporations and government and we have what we need to move forward. I realize that advertising money will still seek to corrupt it, but they can never own it!
The death of a free press is the death of liberty and the death of free people! If the poor weren't stirred against the middle class by design we would have the numbers to overwhelm the progressive left and return to democracy. They have to demonize the middle class to keep power.
Spot on as usual. I fear we will never go back to the good old days when things were far less complicated and you could count on almost every American being a patriot who loved his country. The media was objective and impartial, Hollywood wasn't promoting a marxist agenda and neither was our education system. We've all but lost it.
An increasing number of people are party loyal more than country loyal. Only one vision of what could be. Anything opposed is evil and out to destroy the country. And the media has sold us all on that idea pretty well by presenting the other side as all fringe all the time, when that isn’t true.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 06:30 PM by Todor.)
I see three "inflection points" to which I can attribute much of what I feel has the country where it is today.
1. LBJ Great Society, taking father and religion out of homes, and replacing with government. Abject failure.
2. Enactment of the Patriot Act. Not 9/11, but our response to it led to the intelligence and DOJ overreach we see today. And when they get caught, they claim some internal audit, and internal measures taken, and they continue to overreach. To the DEMS credit, I recall the biggest opponents to the legislation were on the left, and they were on the right side of this issue.
3. COVID changed so many things, mainly those related to where citizen freedoms ended and "greater good" began. As one might surmise, the government used the opportunity to remove basic freedoms under the guise of public safety, but it is as ridiculous now as it was in 2020 to think a piece of cloth that cannot mask someone's bad breath would prevent virus from being spread. Kids lost two years of being kids, small businesses were and remain decimated, and the US still funds gain of function research.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 09:02 PM by ODUsmitty.)
(05-19-2023 11:02 AM)CBJNUT Wrote: Interested in getting the forum's collective feedback & opinion on when, or maybe even more specifically, what event could be argued as the historical tipping point at which time the country's political & cultural trajectory changed forever. This would be a point in time, had it either not occurred or could have been altered significantly, would have put the country on a very different path than where we find ourselves today. Not looking for census demographic data points, per se, as those have always been in play and are akin to the stale "climate change" arguments we've grown to know & love, but rather a snapshot in time where a direct thread could be drawn to today, an irreversible decision point that we've yet to return to as a society.
I find this a fascinating, thought-provoking exercise & would be interested in seeing the debate that may arise from the various points of view on this site.
To get things started, I'll put this stake in the ground as a marker upon which the day prior, unbeknownst to those living in that time, may have been the high-water mark for our country, considering all the various aspects that have changed in years since. I know not everyone will agree, and some aspects of our country's "soul" are more important than others to different folks, but that's what makes this such an interesting topic for discussion.
Here goes:
September 4, 1957 - Arkansas National Guard Blockade of Little Rock Central High School Integration
Rationale:
1) Governor Faubus actively supported & participated in the Southern Democrats' political campaign of "massive resistance" to the 1954 US Supreme Court Brown v. Board of Education decision declaring all laws establishing segregated schools to be unconstitutional & calling for the desegregation of all schools throughout the nation
2) Ordering the posting of the National Guard at the time was justified to "preserve the peace", meant to prevent registered black students from entering the school due to claims that there was an "imminent danger of tumult, riot & breach of peace" at the integration
3) Governor was facing pressure as he campaigned for a third term, deciding to appease racist elements in the state by calling out the National Guard to prevent black students from entering Central High. Per former Arkansas Supreme Court Justice James Johnson, Governor Faubus was hoaxed into calling out the National Guard to supposedly prevent a white mob from stopping the integration of Little Rock Central High School: "There wasn't any caravan. But we made Orval believe it. We said. 'They're lining up. They're coming in droves.' ... The only weapon we had was to leave the impression that the sky was going to fall." He later claimed that Faubus asked him to raise a mob to justify his actions.
4) Argument can be made this was a manufactured crisis by Faubus to keep black children out of Central High School because he was frustrated by the success his political opponents were having in using segregationist rhetoric to stir white voters
Legacy:
1) Political subversion of court decisions to stoke racial animus in support of restricted freedom
2) Manufactured crisis to seize popular local voter support to keep entrenched political power
3) Need for federal government intervention to remediate the issue (101st Airborne escort to protect the students & perform domestic law enforcement)
4) Seeds planted that day now bring us shades of modern day abortion rights activism & various hoaxes designed to keep Democrats in political power (ex. Charlottesville white supremacist rally, Russia collusion,
January 6th insurrection, etc...)
(05-19-2023 11:52 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Structurally: Federal Reserve Act 1913
Politically and Culturally: Nov 23, 1963
I would argue that 9/11 was the turning point for the worse on the latter.
"Bush's Wars" due to 9/11 + a 'roaring' economy under Bill Clinton + student loans + Bush Recession + Obama First Minority President + learning from the hippies = Millennials are Democrats & ain't budgin'.
Not sure how 9/11 tipping point overall tho?
(05-20-2023 08:54 AM)andybible1995 Wrote: FDR's New Deal. That gave birth to the welfare state long before LBJ's Great Society came about.
Believe this one is the oldest on the timeline posted. Definitely a good one.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 07:34 PM by Bronco'14.)
(05-19-2023 11:31 AM)Bronco14 Wrote: I think a lot of where we're at had its origins in the Nixon period.
Whatever cemented 95% non-white descent to vote D
The reason it goes back to Nixon is because the Viet Nam era saw a proliferation of Marxist organizing groups disguising themselves as student protests, using gullible sincere students to do their work, and the fellow travelers who were working as grad students so they would have a selective service deferral would do anything to make being radical seem cool.
Most so called hippies weren't really hippies. They were kids turned off by the crap that middle class life was being portrayed as. Feminism grew out of WWII and not so much the 60's although the 60's gave it a chance to take hold. Anti-war was big to any kid who was afraid he'd get his ass shot off in the jungle. But these people were not communists, and neither were the druggies.
Mao's money flowed to Bobby Seals and the Black Panthers, to Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn in the Weather Underground and other fringe groups which soldiered on into the 70's like the Symbionese Liberation Army for which Patty Hearst was involved. Soros was the money behind the Weather Underground and why Obama turned to Ayers and Dorn as mentors in Chicago. And don't think for a minute those guys are commies, they aren't. They were radicals which were recruited to what they thought was socialist but actually work for the Deep State.
Most kids today don't realize that Gerald Ford was on the Warren Commission and they kept those guys current in politics as long as they could to fend off investigations into the assassination like the one brought by the attorney in New Orleans that Stone made the movie JFK about. Great movie, but it missed the whole Federal Reserve connection and likely did so intentionally. They and their backers do still make political careers and use Hollywood for their purposes.
It's all a real mess, but the radical Maoist movements started in the 60's, tried to infiltrate the NAACP and King wouldn't let them, sought out Malcom X who turned on them (both got killed), and settled on the Panthers and Weather Underground. Maoist Communism plays on race division because they saw traditional Marxism's use of class as ineffective against the American middle class. So race baiting it is.
(05-20-2023 07:43 PM)JRsec Wrote: The reason it goes back to Nixon is because the Viet Nam era saw a proliferation of Marxist organizing groups disguising themselves as student protests, .
(05-20-2023 07:43 PM)JRsec Wrote: The reason it goes back to Nixon is because the Viet Nam era saw a proliferation of Marxist organizing groups disguising themselves as student protests, .
But that would take us back to LBJ, before Nixon.
Of course it does. But like most republicans Nixon takes the heat for something he inherited from a Democrat. But Dems and Repubs were different animals back then weren't they? LBJ you will remember announced he would not seek another term and he quietly left. Clever move for a failed president. Nixon assumed responsibility and lost credibility with the Paris Peace talks and the POWs left behind in small jungle camps and not listed officially as being captured. You would think Nixon would be remembered for getting out of the war, but Watergate happened. Kissinger was an easy butt for a joke. The 55 days until the fall and the abandonment of former allies was a shameful exit.
All of it legitimized the protests at home, and in the aftermath the country didn't want to relieve '68 so people like Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution and jail time with the former going on to train more radicals and the second to be head of childhood education at Northwestern. Piss on all of us for allowing that to happen! And Soros, he grew older, wiser, and more dangerous without appropriate agency scrutiny.
I just didn't want to have to go back and cover events from November of 63 through Nixon.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 08:30 PM by JRsec.)
I still say the passage of the Great Society legislation in the 1960s. That's when democrats hitched their future to, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And republicans either didn't know how or didn't want to contest them.
I'm really tied of democrats who are socialists/communists and republicans who don't know whether to scratch their watch or wind their ass.
(05-20-2023 08:45 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: I still say the passage of the Great Society legislation in the 1960s. That's when democrats hitched their future to, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And republicans either didn't know how or didn't want to contest them.
I'm really tied of democrats who are socialists/communists and republicans who don't know whether to scratch their watch or wind their ass.
We quit having Republicans and Democrats in November of '63. What we had after that were people who were either with the conspirators or they didn't have a chance. Johnson was clearly complicit, or at best in the pocket of those who were. Nixon wasn't with them, but those surrounding him were absolutely. Watergate and Trump bear some striking similarities if you think about it. A government leak and a relentless press for instance. It could only have been worse if Rosemary Woods had been carrying his child.
And I get tired of come see come saw fence sitters who spew venom at those who do both good and bad and pat themselves on the back as if they had done something. They are more worthless than 5 minute old spit. And I despise anyone who puts up with what is clearly alien corn among us in government.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023 08:57 PM by JRsec.)
(05-20-2023 08:45 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: I still say the passage of the Great Society legislation in the 1960s. That's when democrats hitched their future to, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." And republicans either didn't know how or didn't want to contest them.
I'm really tied of democrats who are socialists/communists and republicans who don't know whether to scratch their watch or wind their ass.
Does that make sharting Jerry Nadler Eric Fartwell a republican?
(05-19-2023 11:52 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Structurally: Federal Reserve Act 1913
Politically and Culturally: Nov 23, 1963
I would argue that 9/11 was the turning point for the worse on the latter.
"Bush's Wars" due to 9/11 + a 'roaring' economy under Bill Clinton + student loans + Bush Recession + Obama First Minority President + learning from the hippies = Millennials are Democrats & ain't budgin'.
Not sure how 9/11 tipping point overall tho?
(05-20-2023 08:54 AM)andybible1995 Wrote: FDR's New Deal. That gave birth to the welfare state long before LBJ's Great Society came about.
Believe this one is the oldest on the timeline posted. Definitely a good one.
I brought up 9/11 because the steps that were taken to prevent another event like that have ended up being turned on people with the wrong politics (FBI going after Pro-Life people). Also, I've seen the Federal Reserve Act mentioned, so that's definitely older than the New Deal.
