Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

jrj84105 · 05-17-2023 02:45 PM

(05-17-2023 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Eh, seeing WVU at 136 and TCU at 269, I’m not sure this is a ranking university presidents would put much stock into.

It’s precisely the kind of thing university presidents pay attention to because research is what financially powers most universities that aren’t privately funded by groups with a primary mission outside of academia.

The difference between TCU and USC is that despite both having a past as religiously founded/funded organizations, USC but not TCU transitioned to a typical organizational model of a research-driven university while TCU is taking its first baby steps in that direction

Academics encompasses two main endeavors:
Research: the discovery of knowledge
Education: the transmission of knowledge.

TCU is low because TCU doesn’t do #1 to any degree at all. That won’t have an impact on educational rankings but it’s a huge knock when it comes to academic rankings.

Baylor and BYU are the other two FBS schools that do very minimal research which is reflected in these rankings.

loki_the_bubba · 05-17-2023 02:47 PM

(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Add Rice (167) to that list. I think it also gives more weighting to size of school than other rankings.

jrj84105 · 05-17-2023 02:48 PM

(05-17-2023 02:47 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Add Rice (167) to that list. I think it also gives more weighting to size of school than other rankings.

Being normalized for size is one component that plays a big part in AAU membership consideration. It’s why Rice is in and ASU is out.

loki_the_bubba · 05-17-2023 02:55 PM

(05-17-2023 02:48 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 02:47 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Add Rice (167) to that list. I think it also gives more weighting to size of school than other rankings.

Being normalized for size is one component that plays a big part in AAU membership consideration. It’s why Rice is in and ASU is out.

AAU is also pretty well balanced between state and private schools. I'm not sure if that is a stated policy somewhere, but that's how it is.

bryanw1995 · 05-17-2023 02:55 PM

(05-17-2023 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Eh, seeing WVU at 136 and TCU at 269, I’m not sure this is a ranking university presidents would put much stock into.

Their methodology is easy to replicate, it's just one more valuable data point. I wouldn't think that it gets more notice than ARWU certainly, but compared with USN&WR? It's probably more valuable than that clearly biased, self-reported pile of goo.

Todor · 05-17-2023 03:01 PM

(05-17-2023 01:38 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote: The Center for World University Rankings (CWUR) publishes the only academic ranking of global universities that assesses the quality of education, alumni employment, quality of faculty, and research performance without relying on surveys and university data submissions.

CWUR uses seven objective and robust indicators grouped into four areas to rank the world’s universities:

1) Education: based on the academic success of a university’s alumni, and measured by the number of a university's alumni who have won prestigious academic distinctions relative to the university's size (25%)
2) Employability: based on the professional success of a university’s alumni, and measured by the number of a university's alumni who have held top positions at major companies relative to the university's size (25%)
3) Faculty: measured by the number of faculty members who have won prestigious academic distinctions (10%)
4) Research:
i) Research Output: measured by the total number of research papers (10%)
ii) High-Quality Publications: measured by the number of research papers appearing in top-tier journals (10%)
iii) Influence: measured by the number of research papers appearing in highly-influential journals (10%)
iv) Citations: measured by the number of highly-cited research papers (10%)

They are essentially an American/western based system geared toward getting smart AND rich foreign students to enroll at our universities. All of their criteria mean nothing once applied to many foreign countries with different systems.

Nerdlinger · 05-17-2023 03:24 PM

Here are all D1 schools on the list:

US Rank. School (2025-26 Conf) World Rank
* = P5 school

Code:

Harvard (Ivy) 1

*Stanford (P12) 3

Princeton (Ivy) 6

Columbia (Ivy) 8

Penn (Ivy) 9

Yale (Ivy) 10

*California (P12) 12

Cornell (Ivy) 14

*Northwestern (B10) 15

*Michigan (B10) 16

*UCLA (B10) 18

*Duke (ACC) 20

*Illinois (B10) 22

*Washington (P12) 25

*Wisconsin (B10) 28

UC San Diego (BWC) 33

*Texas (SEC) 34

*North Carolina (ACC) 37

Dartmouth (Ivy) 42

*Minnesota (B10) 47

UC Davis (BWC) 52

*USC (B10) 53

*Penn State (B10) 54

*Vanderbilt (SEC) 56

*Ohio State (B10) 60

*Rutgers (B10) 62

Brown (Ivy) 64

*Purdue (B10) 65

*Colorado (P12) 66

*Georgia Tech (ACC) 67

*Texas A&M (SEC) 69

*Virginia (ACC) 71

*Pittsburgh (ACC) 75

*Maryland (B10) 79

UC Irvine (BWC) 82

*Florida (SEC) 86

Boston University (PL) 90

*Arizona (P12) 95

UC Santa Barbara (BWC) 98

*Indiana (B10) 114

*Utah (P12) 117

*Iowa (B10) 145

*Michigan State (B10) 151

Rice (AAC) 167

Massachusetts (A-10) 169

*Iowa State (B12) 182

*Notre Dame (ACC) 183

*Arizona State (P12) 186

UAB (AAC) 189

*NC State (ACC) 196

Connecticut (BEC) 199

Stony Brook (CAA) 201

*Kansas (B12) 209

*Georgia (SEC) 213

*Tennessee (SEC) 224

Georgetown (BEC) 225

*Missouri (SEC) 230

*Miami-FL (ACC) 236

UIC (MVC) 240

*Cincinnati (B12) 241

UC Riverside (BWC) 252

Colorado State (MWC) 260

*Houston (B12) 261

*Wake Forest (ACC) 262

VCU (A-10) 265

*Virginia Tech (ACC) 270

*Oregon State (P12) 273

George Washington (A-10) 287

*Florida State (ACC) 295

*Washington State (P12) 302

Buffalo (MAC) 305

Delaware (CAA) 308

*Kentucky (SEC) 310

South Florida (AAC) 314

*Nebraska (B10) 319

New Mexico (MWC) 322

Northeastern (CAA) 323

SMU (AAC) 343

*South Carolina (SEC) 351

Temple (AAC) 353

Drexel (CAA) 364

*LSU (SEC) 384

*Oklahoma (SEC) 405

*Oregon (P12) 421

Albany (AEC) 425

*Texas Tech (B12) 442

*Ole Miss (SEC) 448

IUPUI (HL) 452

Tulane (AAC) 454

St. Louis (A-10) 463

*Kansas State (B12) 464

*Alabama (SEC) 466

*Syracuse (ACC) 473

George Mason (A-10) 474

Vermont (AEC) 475

FIU (CUSA) 479

*Central Florida (B12) 480

*Louisville (ACC) 483

Lehigh (PL) 488

*West Virginia (B12) 501

Hawaii (BWC) 505

*Baylor (B12) 512

Georgia State (SBC) 535

*Boston College (ACC) 536

*Oklahoma State (B12) 546

*Arkansas (SEC) 553

*Auburn (SEC) 556

*Clemson (ACC) 576

San Diego State (MWC) 598

Texas-Arlington (WAC) 606

*BYU (B12) 618

Milwaukee (HL) 619

Utah State (MWC) 624

William & Mary (CAA) 642

New Hampshire (AEC) 654

UTSA (AAC) 656

Nevada (MWC) 671

Maine (AEC) 690

Wyoming (MWC) 691

North Texas (AAC) 697

Binghamton (AEC) 701

Loyola-Chicago (A-10) 713

Kansas City (SL) 720

*Mississippi State (SEC) 726

Montana State (BSkC) 733

Idaho (BSkC) 783

Kent State (MAC) 790

UMBC (AEC) 792

Northern Arizona (BSkC) 797

Rhode Island (A-10) 803

Charlotte (AAC) 807

Montana (BSkC) 818

UNLV (MWC) 829

Ohio (MAC) 831

Miami-OH (MAC) 852

Toledo (MAC) 869

Old Dominion (SBC) 879

Northern Illinois (MAC) 881

Denver (SL) 889

New Mexico State (CUSA) 911

NJIT (AEC) 918

Portland State (BSkC) 945

North Dakota State (SL) 958

East Carolina (AAC) 963

Bucknell (PL) 965

Southern Illinois (MVC) 979

Akron (MAC) 985

Memphis (AAC) 987

Villanova (BEC) 997

Colgate (PL) 999

UTEP (CUSA) 1006

American (PL) 1009

Louisiana-Lafayette (SBC) 1017

Pepperdine (WCC) 1035

FAU (AAC) 1047

Creighton (BEC) 1086

Fordham (A-10) 1105

UNC Greensboro (SC) 1107

UMass Lowell (AEC) 1120

Louisiana Tech (CUSA) 1130

Manhattan (MAAC) 1136

Navy (PL) 1151

Marquette (BEC) 1153

South Dakota State (SL) 1194

Santa Clara (WCC) 1202

UTRGV (WAC) 1205

Fresno State (MWC) 1224

Howard (MEAC) 1228

Army (PL) 1234

North Dakota (SL) 1248

Cal Poly (BWC) 1249

Oakland (HL) 1250

Boise State (MWC) 1274

Texas State (SBC) 1275

Hofstra (CAA) 1279

Wright State (HL) 1309

CSU Fullerton (BWC) 1319

Holy Cross (PL) 1354

Dayton (A-10) 1393

South Alabama (SBC) 1396

Bowling Green (MAC) 1397

CSU Northridge (BWC) 1398

San Francisco (WCC) 1444

*TCU (B12) 1451

Central Michigan (MAC) 1454

Western Michigan (MAC) 1464

Ball State (MAC) 1485

San Jose State (MWC) 1498

Long Beach State (BWC) 1513

South Dakota (SL) 1527

Southern Miss (SBC) 1558

Hampton (CAA) 1573

Tulsa (AAC) 1587

Illinois State (MVC) 1639

Cleveland State (HL) 1648

DePaul (BEC) 1657

Utah Valley (WAC) 1667

Sacramento State (BSkC) 1694

UNC Wilmington (CAA) 1700

Georgia Southern (SBC) 1712

Appalachian State (SBC) 1719

Fairfield (MAAC) 1720

James Madison (SBC) 1765

Marshall (SBC) 1770

St. John's (BEC) 1788

Kennesaw State (CUSA) 1794

East Tennessee (SC) 1805

Charleston (CAA) 1816

Jackson State (SWAC) 1829

Idaho State (BSkC) 1836

Towson (CAA) 1872

Florida A&M (SWAC) 1938

New Orleans (SLC) 1978

Little Rock (OVC) 1997

dbackjon · 05-17-2023 03:30 PM

(05-17-2023 12:53 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 12:51 PM)dbackjon Wrote:
(05-17-2023 12:47 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote: 73. Tenn
76. Columbia
77. Miami
80. Cincinnati
85. Houston
86. WF
87. UVA

This seems way off. You're talking about the University of Virginia at #87 right?

University of Virginia is at 40

Virginia COMMONWEALTH is at 87

His list was of their ranking within the US, not world.

Correct - but he listed UVA twice - once at 40 (USA) and once at 87 (USA). The 87 ranking was for VCU.

inutech · 05-17-2023 03:38 PM

(05-17-2023 02:45 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Eh, seeing WVU at 136 and TCU at 269, I’m not sure this is a ranking university presidents would put much stock into.

It’s precisely the kind of thing university presidents pay attention to because research is what financially powers most universities that aren’t privately funded by groups with a primary mission outside of academia.

The difference between TCU and USC is that despite both having a past as religiously founded/funded organizations, USC but not TCU transitioned to a typical organizational model of a research-driven university while TCU is taking its first baby steps in that direction

Academics encompasses two main endeavors:
Research: the discovery of knowledge
Education: the transmission of knowledge.

TCU is low because TCU doesn’t do #1 to any degree at all. That won’t have an impact on educational rankings but it’s a huge knock when it comes to academic rankings.

Baylor and BYU are the other two FBS schools that do very minimal research which is reflected in these rankings.

(05-17-2023 02:47 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Add Rice (167) to that list. I think it also gives more weighting to size of school than other rankings.

(05-17-2023 02:48 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 02:47 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Add Rice (167) to that list. I think it also gives more weighting to size of school than other rankings.

Being normalized for size is one component that plays a big part in AAU membership consideration. It’s why Rice is in and ASU is out.

Yeah, USC is also twice as big as TCU. It seems like they normalized for some categories but went with raw numbers for the research ones?

HawaiiMongoose · 05-17-2023 05:15 PM

U.S. rankings for MWC members:

84 Colorado State
103 New Mexico
137 Hawaii
150 San Diego State
157 Utah State
162 Nevada
165 Wyoming
187 UNLV
240 Fresno State
250 Boise State
274 San Jose State

Air Force doesn't appear to have made it onto the list of 332 although Navy (231) and Army (242) are there.

And just for the heck of it, since Hawaii has dual allegiance, here are the Big West's U.S. rankings:

21 UC San Diego
28 UC Davis
44 UC Irvine
49 UC Santa Barbara
82 UC Riverside
137 Hawaii
244 Cal Poly
255 Cal State Fullerton
264 Cal State Northridge
276 Long Beach State
NR Cal State Bakersfield

dbackjon · 05-17-2023 06:18 PM

The Big Sky has a group of 4 that would be middle of the MWC pack:
US Ranking
Montana State - 175
Idaho - 179
Northern Arizona - 182
Montana - 186

Next is Portland State at 202

Big Gap

Idaho State - 318

bullet · 05-17-2023 06:26 PM

(05-17-2023 02:45 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Eh, seeing WVU at 136 and TCU at 269, I’m not sure this is a ranking university presidents would put much stock into.

It’s precisely the kind of thing university presidents pay attention to because research is what financially powers most universities that aren’t privately funded by groups with a primary mission outside of academia.

The difference between TCU and USC is that despite both having a past as religiously founded/funded organizations, USC but not TCU transitioned to a typical organizational model of a research-driven university while TCU is taking its first baby steps in that direction

Academics encompasses two main endeavors:
Research: the discovery of knowledge
Education: the transmission of knowledge.

TCU is low because TCU doesn’t do #1 to any degree at all. That won’t have an impact on educational rankings but it’s a huge knock when it comes to academic rankings.

Baylor and BYU are the other two FBS schools that do very minimal research which is reflected in these rankings.

Yes and no. TCU is just fine with presidents because they are a strong undergraduate institution. Notre Dame is valued academically a lot higher than their #65 ranking for the same reason.

DC Texan · 05-19-2023 01:23 PM

(05-17-2023 02:55 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:
(05-17-2023 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Eh, seeing WVU at 136 and TCU at 269, I’m not sure this is a ranking university presidents would put much stock into.

Their methodology is easy to replicate, it's just one more valuable data point. I wouldn't think that it gets more notice than ARWU certainly, but compared with USN&WR? It's probably more valuable than that clearly biased, self-reported pile of goo.

USN&WR is complete garbage.

whittx · 05-19-2023 02:42 PM

(05-17-2023 01:29 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: These rankings are heavily, heavily skewed to applied sciences and those with easy access to state research dollars, as Notre Dame (183), Georgetown (225) and Boston College (536) can attest.

Syracuse would rate higher if the two SUNY schools that were spun off from it were still there

DavidSt · 05-19-2023 03:49 PM

(05-17-2023 06:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote: The Big Sky has a group of 4 that would be middle of the MWC pack:
US Ranking
Montana State - 175
Idaho - 179
Northern Arizona - 182
Montana - 186

Next is Portland State at 202

Big Gap

Idaho State - 318

If you count football only UC-Davis? They would be ontop of the heap of the MWC.

dbackjon · 05-19-2023 03:52 PM

(05-19-2023 03:49 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(05-17-2023 06:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote: The Big Sky has a group of 4 that would be middle of the MWC pack:
US Ranking
Montana State - 175
Idaho - 179
Northern Arizona - 182
Montana - 186

Next is Portland State at 202

Big Gap

Idaho State - 318

If you count football only UC-Davis? They would be ontop of the heap of the MWC.

Yes, which is one reason why if UC-Davis ever decided to go FBS, they'd be a good add for the MWC

jdgaucho · 05-19-2023 03:53 PM

(05-17-2023 05:15 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: U.S. rankings for MWC members:

84 Colorado State
103 New Mexico
137 Hawaii
150 San Diego State
157 Utah State
162 Nevada
165 Wyoming
187 UNLV
240 Fresno State
250 Boise State
274 San Jose State

Air Force doesn't appear to have made it onto the list of 332 although Navy (231) and Army (242) are there.

And just for the heck of it, since Hawaii has dual allegiance, here are the Big West's U.S. rankings:

21 UC San Diego
28 UC Davis
44 UC Irvine
49 UC Santa Barbara
82 UC Riverside
137 Hawaii
244 Cal Poly
255 Cal State Fullerton
264 Cal State Northridge
276 Long Beach State
NR Cal State Bakersfield

If only those were NET rankings in basketball...

Threaded Mode \| Linear Mode 2023 WORLD UNIVERSITY RANKINGS
Author	Message