If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

Money is the ONLY reason why Arizona would ever consider to move to the Big 12 (assuming that Big 12 ends up with a money advantage).

All of the “Sun Belt strategy” factors of geographic coherence and rivalries would point to Arizona and all other Pac-12 schools staying right where they are (in additional to cultural point of view and academics). The only part of the Big 12 that has regional coherence is the Texas portion and the old Big 8 schools. Otherwise, it’s a total geographic mishmash (much more like an AAC strategy, albeit with MUCH better brands, than a Sun Belt strategy).

It's a good question and one that I hope commissioners and presidents are asking themselves.

The Sunbelt did things the right way. They have tight geographic divisions and if you have that, it really does not matter how far apart each division is apart from the other(s).

I'm not an expert on the 4Cs but aside from possibly Colorado, it seems that the other three would fit in well with the B12 culturally, too. On that note I should add that I am not sure how much "culture" should really matter anyway; it can also be argued that cultural differences can help fuel rivalries.

The only PAC schools that don't fit in culturally with the B12 are Washington, probably Oregon, Stanford and Cal. The others do for the most part.

(04-23-2023 10:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

Money is the ONLY reason why Arizona would ever consider to move to the Big 12 (assuming that Big 12 ends up with a money advantage).

All of the “Sun Belt strategy” factors of geographic coherence and rivalries would point to Arizona and all other Pac-12 schools staying right where they are (in additional to cultural point of view and academics). The only part of the Big 12 that has regional coherence is the Texas portion and the old Big 8 schools. Otherwise, it’s a total geographic mishmash (much more like an AAC strategy, albeit with MUCH better brands, than a Sun Belt strategy).

I mean, the “Sun Belt strategy” was about money too though, right? But instead of maximizing revenue, it minimized cost. No more trips to El Paso or South Florida.

The only Sun Belt member that USM played ten times or more, ever, is Louisiana.

Adding James Madison at least gave Old Dominion a rival, but neither of them have much history with anybody else (gotta go deep into realignmentology to remember Georgia State’s CAA membership).

Don’t get me wrong, the Sun Belt has some new shared interests that could grow into compelling matchups—Marshall or JMU against App State, for example—but I’m not sure how much inspiration the Big 12 could get from this.

Not tryna hate on the SBC adding JMU but why didn't they add Liberty? They have a more established brand than the dukes. Also would've fit in perfectly geographically as they are more down south in the state when compared to JMU.

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

The problem with that strategy is SMU. The Big 12 does not want them and the PAC presidents have taken corporal kliavkoff to the proverbial woodshed for his disastrous and embarrassing visit a few months back. Notice the crickets chirping about SMU to the PAC?

He was gone when those decisions were most recently made.

(04-24-2023 06:54 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Not tryna hate on the SBC adding JMU but why didn't they add Liberty? They have a more established brand than the dukes. Also would've fit in perfectly geographically as they are more down south in the state when compared to JMU.

Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus). And as others have made the point before, there might be a few institutional differences between Liberty and the Sun Belt schools that are too hard to overcome.

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

That "cultural POV" won't be the worth the high horse it's sitting on once UW and UO hit that exit door.

It's like Colorado's administration stubbornly keeping intact the university's restrictive transfer policy until the high-profile new football coach comes in and says, "we need this policy relaxed to help us win some games."

LOL, these university presidents are just like politicians ... they'll stand on their "beliefs and principles" until certain constituents insist on something else

(04-24-2023 07:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus)

Next time you head to a ballgame at Marshall and aren't in a hurry, take the scenic route through McDowell County, W.Va.

Been hard times for a long time, but man that area is beautiful and folks are salt of the earth

(04-24-2023 06:42 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(04-23-2023 10:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

Money is the ONLY reason why Arizona would ever consider to move to the Big 12 (assuming that Big 12 ends up with a money advantage).

All of the “Sun Belt strategy” factors of geographic coherence and rivalries would point to Arizona and all other Pac-12 schools staying right where they are (in additional to cultural point of view and academics). The only part of the Big 12 that has regional coherence is the Texas portion and the old Big 8 schools. Otherwise, it’s a total geographic mishmash (much more like an AAC strategy, albeit with MUCH better brands, than a Sun Belt strategy).

I mean, the “Sun Belt strategy” was about money too though, right? But instead of maximizing revenue, it minimized cost. No more trips to El Paso or South Florida.

The only Sun Belt member that USM played ten times or more, ever, is Louisiana.

Adding James Madison at least gave Old Dominion a rival, but neither of them have much history with anybody else (gotta go deep into realignmentology to remember Georgia State’s CAA membership).

Don’t get me wrong, the Sun Belt has some new shared interests that could grow into compelling matchups—Marshall or JMU against App State, for example—but I’m not sure how much inspiration the Big 12 could get from this.

There are a lot of old Rivals for Marshall in the SBC. There's the continued rivalries with Southern Miss and ODU. There's an old heated rivalry with Appalachian State from when we were in the SoCon for 20 years with each other. Georgia Southern was also in the SoCon with Marshall and Appalachian State. JMU is quickly becoming a rival and Coastal is in Myrtle where a ton of Marshall alumns vacation and even live there.

When I hear the term sunbelt strategy, I think about schools with an emphasis on winning football vs an emphasis on markets. Markets is the road that CUSA went down and now the AAC is following.

If the PAC were to follow a football first strategy, that would mean taking Boise St first. But after that, what west coast or mountain school has a strong football tradition?

(04-23-2023 10:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-23-2023 09:56 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  If the schools involved (the 4 Corners, the PAC in general, the Big 12, SDSU and SMU) approached things more like the Sun Belt strategy of creating good matchups, regional coherence, etc. and money wasn't the overarching factor, would that help say Arizona decide to take their basketball to the Big 12 for matchups with KU, Baylor, etc. or would cultural POV keep them in the PAC?

I hope that question makes sense.

Money is the ONLY reason why Arizona would ever consider to move to the Big 12 (assuming that Big 12 ends up with a money advantage).

All of the “Sun Belt strategy” factors of geographic coherence and rivalries would point to Arizona and all other Pac-12 schools staying right where they are (in additional to cultural point of view and academics). The only part of the Big 12 that has regional coherence is the Texas portion and the old Big 8 schools. Otherwise, it’s a total geographic mishmash (much more like an AAC strategy, albeit with MUCH better brands, than a Sun Belt strategy).

Money and basketball.

(04-24-2023 07:31 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  ... LOL, these university presidents are just like politicians ... they'll stand on their "beliefs and principles" until certain constituents insist on something else

They are politicians, just politicians playing a peculiar brand of politics in a peculiar political arena.

(04-24-2023 07:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 07:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus)

Next time you head to a ballgame at Marshall and aren't in a hurry, take the scenic route through McDowell County, W.Va.

Been hard times for a long time, but man that area is beautiful and folks are salt of the earth

I've been mulling on going to the @Marshall football game this year, if I do I'll try to work that into the plans! Would you recommend going up Route 52 that looks like it goes right through?

(04-24-2023 08:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 07:31 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  ... LOL, these university presidents are just like politicians ... they'll stand on their "beliefs and principles" until certain constituents insist on something else

They are politicians, just politicians playing a peculiar brand of politics in a peculiar political arena.

They don't get those jobs without knowing how to play the game

(04-24-2023 08:39 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 07:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 07:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus)

Next time you head to a ballgame at Marshall and aren't in a hurry, take the scenic route through McDowell County, W.Va.

Been hard times for a long time, but man that area is beautiful and folks are salt of the earth

I've been mulling on going to the @Marshall football game this year, if I do I'll try to work that into the plans! Would you recommend going up Route 52 that looks like it goes right through?

Been soooooooo long since I've been up there ... I sure wouldn't know the best way to go. Maybe some of our Mountain State folks here could help out?

I just remember how beautiful the countryside was, especially to a young guy who grew up in a region pretty much as flat as a kitchen table. Those winding two-lane West Virginia roads were something else. Gonna get back there to visit one day, Lord willing

Ah I see. Well at Least Liberty is in the Conference USA now.

(04-24-2023 07:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 06:54 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Not tryna hate on the SBC adding JMU but why didn't they add Liberty? They have a more established brand than the dukes. Also would've fit in perfectly geographically as they are more down south in the state when compared to JMU.

Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus). And as others have made the point before, there might be a few institutional differences between Liberty and the Sun Belt schools that are too hard to overcome.

I think that Liberty's ability to spend might also keep them out of many conferences. They seemingly have a printing press set up over there and are aggressively investing. It could be argued that Sunbelt (and AAC) programs want to keep them out so they can keep them down.

I have considered where to put them in various conference realignment doodles in my spare time. Every time they are left out if CUSA gets raided further. LA Tech stands a better chance of getting into the Sunbelt than they do... and that's saying something.

(04-24-2023 09:29 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 07:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 06:54 AM)ExpertAd991 Wrote:  Not tryna hate on the SBC adding JMU but why didn't they add Liberty? They have a more established brand than the dukes. Also would've fit in perfectly geographically as they are more down south in the state when compared to JMU.

Believe it or not, it's actually faster to get between ODU/Marshall and JMU than ODU/Marshall and Liberty (as JMU does have the interstate going straight thru their campus). And as others have made the point before, there might be a few institutional differences between Liberty and the Sun Belt schools that are too hard to overcome.

I think that Liberty's ability to spend might also keep them out of many conferences. They seemingly have a printing press set up over there and are aggressively investing. It could be argued that Sunbelt (and AAC) programs want to keep them out so they can keep them down.

I have considered where to put them in various conference realignment doodles in my spare time. Every time they are left out if CUSA gets raided further. LA Tech stands a better chance of getting into the Sunbelt than they do... and that's saying something.

Two printing presses, actually. One prints money and the other prints blank diplomas.