his conference stretches from West Virginia to Utah and members of the Big 12 are actively campaigning to raid the Pac-12 so its a bit rich coming from a Big 12 HC

We'll see the outcome of these cross country conferences, I'm going to keep an eye on how teams like USC, UCLA, BYU, etc are doing in Olympic sports and if it is affecting performance or recruiting

(04-21-2023 11:01 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  If the money (and general fan interest) in the SunBelt were the same, it would make much more sense for ECU to be there. That's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever so it's a moot point.

Honestly, if we keep shrinking the gap to the AAC at the same rate we have been lately, the SBC will get to that point. It's a matter of "when", not "if", as long as this momentum keeps going.

I've never seen a legit number for the current ESPN deal (the conference keeps that private), but JMU and ODU reports say it's an average payout of $2M per school. That's up from ~$500,000 (or less?) less than 10 years ago. Compare that to the AAC, who just saw their average payout drop from $7M to $5.5M per school when 6 CUSA members each agreed to a $3.5M average.

The gap is closing. I'd like to see ECU join the Fun at some point, but there's no real loss if they never join: the SBC East is amazing as it is.

(04-21-2023 11:41 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  The only schools I would be interested in from the SunBelt would be (in no order): Marshall, App, JMU and possibly Louisiana (because they have a place down there I want to get a crawfish poboy from)... and that's it. I am not interested in ODU because I prefer college towns.

You have 11 college towns in the SBC, and 1 in the AAC (yourself).

If you "prefer college towns", the SBC suits you better.

(04-22-2023 12:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 12:39 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:01 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  Say what you will about Self, but he's not wrong. The increased money is great but personally I prefer, as a fan, more regionalized athletic contests.

If the money (and general fan interest) in the SunBelt were the same, it would make much more sense for ECU to be there. That's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever so it's a moot point.

Equal revenue distribution would change things dramatically. I can easily envision a scenario where politicians get involved and make such a reality, as I have stated many times on this board. I'm not saying that it's for the best but government does not always do what's best as is... and it sure does love to regulate.

Thanks but he's definitely wrong.
As to your last paragraph, we are going Communist now?

I think that's socialist. Socialists like to use Other People's Money for their own (allegedly better) ends, Communists want to eliminate money completely. Or something.

It's neither. The entity in question is college sports, not the individual teams. And teams are only worth anything if they have somebody to play, so it's hardly "capitalistic" to drive them out of business, or to let them fail. Hence, the successful professional leagues have some sort of revenue sharing.

(04-21-2023 10:40 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:19 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Gary Bedore of The Kansas City Star reports:

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/colleg...63196.html

“I am not a fan of realignment in general over time. I think it’s pretty ridiculous that you’ve got Maryland and Rutgers in the Big Ten and you have UCLA and USC in the Big Ten, stretching that (from coast to coast),” Kansas basketball coach Bill Self said Tuesday during a news conference held prior to his Dillon Lecture Series speech at Hutchinson Community College.

“You talk about realignment, let’s be real candid, it’s about money. It’s not about student-athlete welfare. It’s not about academics. When you are putting kids on planes to travel in non-football, basketball sports — softball or tennis — to travel those distances is going to be a strain, a grind on everybody. But in our situation with the Big 12, since this is the world we live in, we did well bringing in Central Florida, BYU, Cincinnati and of course Houston and all the great things that Kelvin (Sampson, UH hoops coach) has done there in recent time.”

Continued Self: “I think those four add to what is already the best basketball league in the country.”

Sigh.

That sour grapes sounds like somebody's application just got turned down...

Self personally might prefer the Big 12. He's getting paid top dollar regardless and he's in a better basketball conference.

(04-22-2023 02:18 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 12:29 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  He's probably just happy that he's regained the moral high ground. "Sure, we travel a bit, but nothing like the B1G!". ...

"Why, UCF to BYU is only a 4 hour, 10 minute flight, where Rutgers to USC is OVER FIVE HOURS!!!

Yeah, but we will fly to LA and go play USC AND UCLA. One flight, one weekend, two games. UCF will fly to Provo, play BYU and then have to fly back East into the Central Timezone for another game. So flight, game, flight, game. Truthfully, which do you think is more taxing on the traveling team?

(04-22-2023 07:58 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 02:18 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 12:29 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  He's probably just happy that he's regained the moral high ground. "Sure, we travel a bit, but nothing like the B1G!". ...

"Why, UCF to BYU is only a 4 hour, 10 minute flight, where Rutgers to USC is OVER FIVE HOURS!!!

Yeah, but we will fly to LA and go play USC AND UCLA. One flight, one weekend, two games. UCF will fly to Provo, play BYU and then have to fly back East into the Central Timezone for another game. So flight, game, flight, game. Truthfully, which do you think is more taxing on the traveling team?

I was focusing on the shakiness of the suggestion that Self could claim the longest trips in the Big12 (Orlando / Provo, Morgantown / Lubbock) are "nothing like" New Brunswick or College Park to Los Angeles in terms of distance, but it's also true that Provo, Lubbock & Morgantown are more charter destinations than places with direct flights from lots of Big12 cities.

(04-21-2023 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:01 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  Say what you will about Self, but he's not wrong. The increased money is great but personally I prefer, as a fan, more regionalized athletic contests.

If the money (and general fan interest) in the SunBelt were the same, it would make much more sense for ECU to be there. That's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever so it's a moot point.

Equal revenue distribution would change things dramatically. I can easily envision a scenario where politicians get involved and make such a reality, as I have stated many times on this board. I'm not saying that it's for the best but government does not always do what's best as is... and it sure does love to regulate.

My goodness, the naïveté astounds me sometimes.

There is one thing that Democrats and Republicans and state legislatures from California and Florida agree upon: open free market capitalism to pay college athletes. State legislatures on opposite ends of the political spectrum are writing laws to cut the legs out of NCAA restrictions on schools to coordinate NIL compensation.

People need to stop being proverbial ostriches in the sand. The political responses (once again from all sides of the political spectrum) to everything over the past few years has been *entirely* about finding ways to pay athletes more, which in turn means that power resides in the schools that can afford to pay more (such a the P5 conferences).

No one is coming in to regulate anything here other than making laws to have the opposite effect of *deregulating* the rules that the NCAA has had on all financial matters in college sports until now.

Schools and conferences need to adapt or die. This is the reality and the sooner that fans get it through their heads that politicians of all sides of the political spectrum have ZERO sympathy for the plight of lower revenue athletic programs, the faster that we can move on to realistic policies and procedures.

Frank, for as smart as you are, I'm very surprised that you didn't pick up on a couple of things.

1. What has coaching been described as? a fraternity. I'm sure that either you yourself are/were a member of a college fraternity or you knew someone who was in one. I myself am a member of a fraternity, Lambda Chi Alpha. We have bonds that transcend distance and time. Every chapter does things slightly different, but the name, the creed, the hq, and how members are initiated remain the same. Same thing with coaching. It is one of the few times that one member, usually an older and respected member does speak for others. Self may be say things out loud that his peers have to say under their breath.

2. Self probably misses the old days when things were easier and not as much effort was required as now.

I personally feel like that lower revenue programs are not the problem here but rather higher revenue programs wanting to rest on their "laurels" (trophies, winning tradition, glory, etc.)

I agree with ypu though, Frank, that everyone does need to adapt & overcome. I've even seen this on the D2 level, so it's not restricted to P5s, although that may have been the original intent.

(04-21-2023 01:46 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 01:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 01:15 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:38 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  If KU had an invite to the B1G or ACC or even the SEC they’d be gone so fast it would make Bevos head spin

Hey, he's bashing the Big 10! Kansas must have an SEC invitation in hand! Right? Always another way to spin anything!

lol sure.

post #8 applies here too : )

You should have juxtaposed Joan Baez's "The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down" (Kansas's pursuit of the Big 10) with Crosby, Stills, and Nash (where's Young? just kidding) and Love the One You're With (Kansas's appeal to the SEC).

Hey, I like Kansas for the SEC, but the drama is amusing.

lol

It's just "Dust in the wind", so "Carry on my wayward son"...

Seems like Frank wants to give the coaching fraternity a "Magic Carpet Ride."

I agree with Bill Self. Conference realignment has gotten ridiculous.

Maryland does not belong in a conference with Nebraska.
UCLA does not belong in a conference with Rutgers.
BYU does not belong in a conference with UCF.

That being said, conference realignment is fascinating and it’s like a car wreck I can’t look away from.

(04-22-2023 10:15 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  I agree with Bill Self. Conference realignment has gotten ridiculous.

Maryland does not belong in a conference with Nebraska.
UCLA does not belong in a conference with Rutgers.
BYU does not belong in a conference with UCF.

That being said, conference realignment is fascinating and it’s like a car wreck I can’t look away from.

If WVU could be in a conference with Penn State, Pitt, Maryland and VPI... they'd drop the B12 like a hot potato.

(04-22-2023 03:10 PM)Glenn360 Wrote:  his conference stretches from West Virginia to Utah and members of the Big 12 are actively campaigning to raid the Pac-12 so its a bit rich coming from a Big 12 HC

We'll see the outcome of these cross country conferences, I'm going to keep an eye on how teams like USC, UCLA, BYU, etc are doing in Olympic sports and if it is affecting performance or recruiting

USC and UCLA's baseball programs are gonna die over there. The Big Ten is not a good baseball conference. USC has been bad lately but going to the Big Ten wont help. These 2 will have the weather advantage by not having to go on the road for their first 15-20 games but I dont think its going be enough. Its going to be tough on recruiting for them. The Pac 12 in baseball has declined and is clearly behind the SEC, ACC, and Big 12 but the Big Ten still sucks and only got 2 post season tournament bids last year.


Softball, UCLA is a powerhouse and USC doesnt even have a team. Big Ten in softball is actually much better than baseball. Not sure why that is since they have the same weather problems. They got 7 post season bids last year.

BYU has never been a baseball powerhouse so I expect nothing from them in the Big 12. They are a powerhouse in softball and make the post season every year so in the Big 12 it might help even though losing TX and OU hurts a lot so theres a opening for them to take advantage of.

(04-23-2023 01:58 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  ... Softball, UCLA is a powerhouse and USC doesnt even have a team. Big Ten in softball is actually much better than baseball. Not sure why that is since they have the same weather problems. They got 7 post season bids last year. ...

Don't know, but it wouldn't be surprising if they get more recruiting leverage from showing off softball facilities, since baseball being a break-even or better sport in many southern schools means the facilities are likely to be competitive at a larger number of schools.

And there's also the factor that fewer of the softball recruits are going to have the attitude of "pursue a college degree but if things turn out well, go to a school that regularly sends players to the pros", which means a larger share with the attitude of "leverage my athletic skills into a lower cost of going to University".

Well the Big 10 didn't "need" USC and UCLA. The Big 12 at the time "needed" WVU. They and UL were the only realistic options to get to 10 for their TV contract. Cincinnati isn't a bad fit. UCF was again because they needed the population, more of a "need" like WVU.

ACC didn't "need" BC, Pitt and SU, but they aren't extreme stretches like USC and UCLA.

Self has said in the past that everyone talks about the SEC being the best conference, but in his mind, the Big 10 is the best overall. He then quickly adds that he likes the Big 12 too and it is a good conference. Who knows if that opinion of the P2 has changed?

(04-25-2023 03:49 PM)konzahawk Wrote:  Self has said in the past that everyone talks about the SEC being the best conference, but in his mind, the Big 10 is the best overall. He then quickly adds that he likes the Big 12 too and it is a good conference. Who knows if that opinion of the P2 has changed?

Does it matter? Kansas will move to either the Big 10 or SEC if asked and then proclaim that conference the best. As that weak show my grandkids watch on Disney would say, "This is the way!"