(04-13-2023 04:40 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(04-13-2023 04:34 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I don't think this is as unpopular as y'all think it is...

GOP was expected to clobber the dems in the midterms until Roe v Wade was overturned.

Voters in deep red Kansas elected to protect abortion rights 60/40 when put up to a statewide vote.

Voters in Wisconsin decisively put a pro-abortion access justice in State Supreme Court, tipping the majority to liberals.

It had almost nothing to do with Roe v Wade and almost everything to do with Dominion and DemoKKKrat/RINO collaboration on cheating/ignoring voter fraud and numbers that no matter how they try to cover it, just don't add up, and every reasonable person knows it. Only an ignorant, publik-skewel "edumakated" moron would ignore/deny that factual truth, but yes, they's a lot of ignorant commie-edumakated idiots nowadays and the leftist elitist overlords love it and want more of 'em and less reasonable, logical people so they can control/enslave everyone like the good ol' days (Fact: only party to have slavery and racism as part of their actual party platform: Democrats). Most legal citizens in US lean against killing babies indiscriminately and similar to wanting people to take responsibility for illegally crossing borders and turning them and their children into automatic criminals (law-breakers, which by definition every single one of them factually is) they want people to take responsibility for their personal decisions and have a little disciplining and self-control instead of muh gub'mint taxing everyone else to clean up their self-created and self-chosen disorders.

(04-14-2023 09:56 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

RN here (not in OB). It's very common for normal people to have cryptic pregnancies up to 12 weeks. I've seen women come into the ER at 20 weeks fearing something is wrong with them, only to be told the symptoms they're experiencing is actually a pregnancy.

Pregnancies also begin at the first day of a woman's period, so the egg might not even be fertilized for two weeks of these 6-week bans. So now you've got a month to figure out if you're pregnant.

And the menstrual cycle ranges anywhere between 21-40 days, so in an extreme case, a woman could be out of the 6 weeks before she misses her period. More normally, she finds out 1-2 weeks before the ban and only if she tests on the first day of a missed period (and more normally, women wait because the menstrual cycle fluctuates a few days here and there).

Then if she's pregnant, she needs to make a quick turnaround decision, and some states require 1-3 day mandatory "cool off" periods (which can push things outside the 6-weeks).

In my opinion, 6-week bans make no sense from a medical, anatomical, bio-ethical, psychological, or mathematical perspective.

FFS then kill the baby

lazy, stupid and irresponsible.

they give birth control out like candy. you dont just magically get pregnant.

im almost at the point where i think democrats should have abortions on demand at anytime.

(04-14-2023 09:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:27 AM)green Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/statu...5408272384

MOOT POINT

Not only is this a bad bill due to the 6 week time frame...signing it in the dead of night makes the optics of this even worse. DeSantis just let us know that he probably will not be running for POTUS.

charlie crist ran almost exclusively on abortion ...
as the galvanizing issue of our time ...
lost by 19.4% ...
1.5M votes ...
most lopsided defeat in florida history since reconstruction ...
if you don’t mind ...
spare me bitter recriminations ...

YEAH YEAH YEAH

Cowards in here. Women need to be on the pill, use condoms or best yet... keep their legs closed. Everybody knows where babies come from.

(04-14-2023 09:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

I think 10 to 12 weeks is reasonable also. It is a poor commentary on America that we have ANY unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The lack of personal responsibility on this issue is glaring despite medicine giving us damn near perfect means of contraception. We are not living in the 50's anymore. If you are getting pregnant without wanting a child you are pretty much an irresponsible person. The outliers in this are statistically close to zero.

Agree with all of this. What we should be encouraging... ESPECIALLY if we are really interested in 'empowering' women... is to have women who are sexually active using those urine sticks which are 99% accurate every few weeks. They are LITERALLY $1 retail... and of course no parental consent is required.

Women should be empowered to KNOW if they become pregnant as soon as possible... so that they can be empowered to ENACT whatever decision they should have already made.

Someone with the mental capacity to consent to sex (otherwise it is rape, and that is a whole different story) should be EMPOWERED to already know what they would do if this consentual act overcomes whatever obstacle you've put in place... and you should be empowered to know if that obstacle failed.

If we do anything other than that... REGARDLESS of where we set the bar in terms of weeks... we are not empowering women to be in control of their bodies... but we are empowering them to be reckless and capricious with them. We don't 'empower' people in this way in ANY other regard. You have the right to drink if you are of the proper age, but you are expected to be responsible for the consequences of that power, even if it doesn't involve another human life.

IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE (to the point of potentially criminal activity) to engage in sexual activity and not be aware of the consequences of that activity. It is not empowering to women to foster irresposibility that could potentially lead to at LEAST a significant moral and health quandry.

It STRIPS a woman of power to encourage 'men' to be able to even remotely deny responsibility for a child simply because they broke up 2 or 20 weeks after unintentional conception.

I'd be fine with handing out urine sticks in schools... even to middle schoolers. It's not remotely invasive. If you don't want to use it then don't... but then don't complain about being stripped of your rights when you wilfully declined the opportunity to be made aware.

So now the question becomes... how close to the 'event' should women be 'empowered' to know that their method of contraception failed?

If it were any other commodity, we would be pushing for as close to 'immediate' knowledge as possible. And if we told an american that they HAD to wait 24 weeks for a doctors appointment, they would be (at least) complaining.

(04-14-2023 10:59 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

I think 10 to 12 weeks is reasonable also. It is a poor commentary on America that we have ANY unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The lack of personal responsibility on this issue is glaring despite medicine giving us damn near perfect means of contraception. We are not living in the 50's anymore. If you are getting pregnant without wanting a child you are pretty much an irresponsible person. The outliers in this are statistically close to zero.

Agree with all of this. What we should be encouraging... ESPECIALLY if we are really interested in 'empowering' women... is to have women who are sexually active using those urine sticks which are 99% accurate every few weeks. They are LITERALLY $1 retail... and of course no parental consent is required.

Women should be empowered to KNOW if they become pregnant as soon as possible... so that they can be empowered to ENACT whatever decision they should have already made.

Someone with the mental capacity to consent to sex (otherwise it is rape, and that is a whole different story) should be EMPOWERED to already know what they would do if this consentual act overcomes whatever obstacle you've put in place... and you should be empowered to know if that obstacle failed.

If we do anything other than that... REGARDLESS of where we set the bar in terms of weeks... we are not empowering women to be in control of their bodies... but we are empowering them to be reckless and capricious with them. We don't 'empower' people in this way in ANY other regard. You have the right to drink if you are of the proper age, but you are expected to be responsible for the consequences of that power, even if it doesn't involve another human life.

IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE (to the point of potentially criminal activity) to engage in sexual activity and not be aware of the consequences of that activity. It is not empowering to women to foster irresposibility that could potentially lead to at LEAST a significant moral and health quandry.

It STRIPS a woman of power to encourage 'men' to be able to even remotely deny responsibility for a child simply because they broke up 2 or 20 weeks after unintentional conception.

I'd be fine with handing out urine sticks in schools... even to middle schoolers. It's not remotely invasive. If you don't want to use it then don't... but then don't complain about being stripped of your rights when you wilfully declined the opportunity to be made aware.

So now the question becomes... how close to the 'event' should women be 'empowered' to know that their method of contraception failed?

If it were any other commodity, we would be pushing for as close to 'immediate' knowledge as possible. And if we told an american that they HAD to wait 24 weeks for a doctors appointment, they would be (at least) complaining.

Yes. It burns my ass up that ALL the talk is about abortion and almost ZERO is about contraception and responsibility. Pretty much any type of birth control is free or very low cost at your local heath department. Here in my county anyone can go into the HC weekly and get a free supply of dozen condoms(multi colored..LOL) by just asking for a "brown bag". Im really sick and tired of this stupid abortion issue that could be eliminated down to nothing but a very small number of extreme cases by just being responsible.

(04-14-2023 12:00 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 10:59 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why do republicans have to overreach when they do these things?

15-20 weeks, exceptions for rape, incest, and health of mother/baby is reasonable and basically represents the de facto law of the land for the first 150 years or so of the republic--what I would call the conservative position.

I really don't see why we should have to go past the 12 week mark. If a woman doesn't know she is pregnant at 12 weeks she has some serious mental issues.

I think 10 to 12 weeks is reasonable also. It is a poor commentary on America that we have ANY unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The lack of personal responsibility on this issue is glaring despite medicine giving us damn near perfect means of contraception. We are not living in the 50's anymore. If you are getting pregnant without wanting a child you are pretty much an irresponsible person. The outliers in this are statistically close to zero.

Agree with all of this. What we should be encouraging... ESPECIALLY if we are really interested in 'empowering' women... is to have women who are sexually active using those urine sticks which are 99% accurate every few weeks. They are LITERALLY $1 retail... and of course no parental consent is required.

Women should be empowered to KNOW if they become pregnant as soon as possible... so that they can be empowered to ENACT whatever decision they should have already made.

Someone with the mental capacity to consent to sex (otherwise it is rape, and that is a whole different story) should be EMPOWERED to already know what they would do if this consentual act overcomes whatever obstacle you've put in place... and you should be empowered to know if that obstacle failed.

If we do anything other than that... REGARDLESS of where we set the bar in terms of weeks... we are not empowering women to be in control of their bodies... but we are empowering them to be reckless and capricious with them. We don't 'empower' people in this way in ANY other regard. You have the right to drink if you are of the proper age, but you are expected to be responsible for the consequences of that power, even if it doesn't involve another human life.

IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE (to the point of potentially criminal activity) to engage in sexual activity and not be aware of the consequences of that activity. It is not empowering to women to foster irresposibility that could potentially lead to at LEAST a significant moral and health quandry.

It STRIPS a woman of power to encourage 'men' to be able to even remotely deny responsibility for a child simply because they broke up 2 or 20 weeks after unintentional conception.

I'd be fine with handing out urine sticks in schools... even to middle schoolers. It's not remotely invasive. If you don't want to use it then don't... but then don't complain about being stripped of your rights when you wilfully declined the opportunity to be made aware.

So now the question becomes... how close to the 'event' should women be 'empowered' to know that their method of contraception failed?

If it were any other commodity, we would be pushing for as close to 'immediate' knowledge as possible. And if we told an american that they HAD to wait 24 weeks for a doctors appointment, they would be (at least) complaining.

Yes. It burns my ass up that ALL the talk is about abortion and almost ZERO is about contraception and responsibility. Pretty much any type of birth control is free or very low cost at your local heath department. Here in my county anyone can go into the HC weekly and get a free supply of dozen condoms(multi colored..LOL) by just asking for a "brown bag". Im really sick and tired of this stupid abortion issue that could be eliminated down to nothing but a very small number of extreme cases by just being responsible.

Planned parenthood makes little money from contraception and responsibility. Without that money, they cant kick some of it back to the democrats. You break the money laundering cycle when you put personal responsibility into the equation.

(04-14-2023 12:47 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Planned parenthood makes little money from contraception and responsibility. Without that money, they cant kick some of it back to the democrats. You break the money laundering cycle when you put personal responsibility into the equation.

While I don't disagree, this amount pales in comparison to the amount of money raised from voters for the argument.



Commenting on the situation this puts DeSantis in....

I THINK that many of the polls that show this to be unpopular are misleading. A perfect example is this very forum... Where only a few of us support 6 weeks... mostly people who probably would support zero weeks... and more of us are somewhere between 8-15 weeks....

and while the people who support 6 weeks might instead vote for someone who supports 8-15 weeks... there isn't ONE Democrat running on that platform. The BEST I"ve seen any Democrat run on is 24 or so weeks that RvW established 50 years ago as 'viability'. If you're telling me that our ability to keep premature babies alive hasn't improved in the last 50 years, I'll tell you that you're ignorant.

I survived (and thrived) despite being born before 24 weeks... almost 60 years ago.

(04-14-2023 10:04 AM)green Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:27 AM)green Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 09:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  This is just put DeSantis in a box. It's almost as if the "powers" to be in Florida are trying to do this on "purpose". Sign or Veto and he is done as far as running for POTUS in this cycle unless he can do Jedi mind tricks. This is not an issue that you want to deal with running for POTUS due to it's volatility.

If he vetoes, he can't get the republican nomination. If he signs, he can't win the general.

https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/statu...5408272384

MOOT POINT

Not only is this a bad bill due to the 6 week time frame...signing it in the dead of night makes the optics of this even worse. DeSantis just let us know that he probably will not be running for POTUS.

charlie crist ran almost exclusively on abortion ...
as the galvanizing issue of our time ...
lost by 19.4% ...
1.5M votes ...
most lopsided defeat in florida history since reconstruction ...
if you don’t mind ...
spare me bitter recriminations ...

YEAH YEAH YEAH

Crist was a fancy republican, Democrats saw through his act.

I'm failing to see the horror of this. 1/2 the South has laws similar to Florida's. Kemp signed his in Purple GA & still got re-elected. Plus, Trump is leading DeSantis bigly in the polls & it's not even close. People say but muh Kansas & I frankly don't care, KS is still Red. DeSantis vetoes this, signs something in the middle, & it still won't be enough. This kind of complacency is why the Left is beating us so bad.

(04-13-2023 09:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  6 frickin weeks and people are pissed?

FFS. People that bitche about this are irresponsible, lazy and stupid

I mean they want sex without the consequences. We live In a world of no accountability or responsibility.

(04-14-2023 05:46 PM)PredatorUTEP Wrote:  

(04-13-2023 09:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  6 frickin weeks and people are pissed?

FFS. People that bitche about this are irresponsible, lazy and stupid

I mean they want sex without the consequences. We live In a world of no accountability or responsibility.

The weird thing is they can do that easily without even bringing the abortion issue into play. Just use contraception...problem 99.9% solved. I think 6 weeks is cutting it a bit too close..but..how about just not getting knocked up in the first place? The old "condom broke" excuse is really getting old. We do not live in the 50's any more. Science has given us almost perfect means of contraception. USE IT!!!