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News Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
Quote:ABOARD COTAM UNITÉ (FRANCE’S AIR FORCE ONE) — Europe must reduce its dependency on the United States and avoid getting dragged into a confrontation between China and the U.S. over Taiwan, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview on his plane back from a three-day state visit to China.

Speaking with POLITICO and two French journalists after spending around six hours with Chinese President Xi Jinping during his trip, Macron emphasized his pet theory of “strategic autonomy” for Europe, presumably led by France, to become a “third superpower.”

He said “the great risk” Europe faces is that it “gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building its strategic autonomy,” while flying from Beijing to Guangzhou, in southern China, aboard COTAM Unité, France’s Air Force One.

Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party have enthusiastically endorsed Macron’s concept of strategic autonomy and Chinese officials constantly refer to it in their dealings with European countries. Party leaders and theorists in Beijing are convinced the West is in decline and China is on the ascendant and that weakening the transatlantic relationship will help accelerate this trend.

“The paradox would be that, overcome with panic, we believe we are just America’s followers,” Macron said in the interview. “The question Europeans need to answer … is it in our interest to accelerate [a crisis] on Taiwan? No. The worse thing would be to think that we Europeans must become followers on this topic and take our cue from the U.S. agenda and a Chinese overreaction,” he said.

Just hours after his flight left Guangzhou headed back to Paris, China launched large military exercises around the self-ruled island of Taiwan, which China claims as its territory but the U.S. has promised to arm and defend.

Those exercises were a response to Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-Wen’s 10-day diplomatic tour of Central American countries that included a meeting with Republican U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy while she transited in California. People familiar with Macron’s thinking said he was happy Beijing had at least waited until he was out of Chinese airspace before launching the simulated “Taiwan encirclement” exercise.

Beijing has repeatedly threatened to invade in recent years and has a policy of isolating the democratic island by forcing other countries to recognize it as part of “one China.”

Taiwan talks
Macron and Xi discussed Taiwan “intensely,” according to French officials accompanying the president, who appears to have taken a more conciliatory approach than the U.S. or even the European Union.

“Stability in the Taiwan Strait is of paramount importance,” European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who accompanied Macron for part of his visit, said she told Xi during their meeting in Beijing last Thursday. “The threat [of] the use of force to change the status quo is unacceptable.”

Xi responded by saying anyone who thought they could influence Beijing on Taiwan was deluded.

Macron appears to agree with that assessment.

“Europeans cannot resolve the crisis in Ukraine; how can we credibly say on Taiwan, ‘watch out, if you do something wrong we will be there’? If you really want to increase tensions that’s the way to do it,” he said.

“Europe is more willing to accept a world in which China becomes a regional hegemon,” said Yanmei Xie, a geopolitics analyst at Gavekal Dragonomics. “Some of its leaders even believe such a world order may be more advantageous to Europe.”

In his trilateral meeting with Macron and von der Leyen last Thursday in Beijing, Xi Jinping went off script on only two topics — Ukraine and Taiwan — according to someone who was present in the room.

“Xi was visibly annoyed for being held responsible for the Ukraine conflict and he downplayed his recent visit to Moscow,” this person said. “He was clearly enraged by the U.S. and very upset over Taiwan, by the Taiwanese president’s transit through the U.S. and [the fact that] foreign policy issues were being raised by Europeans.”

In this meeting, Macron and von der Leyen took similar lines on Taiwan, this person said. But Macron subsequently spent more than four hours with the Chinese leader, much of it with only translators present, and his tone was far more conciliatory than von der Leyen’s when speaking with journalists.

‘Vassals’ warning
Macron also argued that Europe had increased its dependency on the U.S. for weapons and energy and must now focus on boosting European defense industries.

He also suggested Europe should reduce its dependence on the “extraterritoriality of the U.S. dollar,” a key policy objective of both Moscow and Beijing.

“If the tensions between the two superpowers heat up … we won’t have the time nor the resources to finance our strategic autonomy and we will become vassals,” he said.

Russia, China, Iran and other countries have been hit by U.S. sanctions in recent years that are based on denying access to the dominant dollar-denominated global financial system. Some in Europe have complained about “weaponization” of the dollar by Washington, which forces European companies to give up business and cut ties with third countries or face crippling secondary sanctions.

While sitting in the stateroom of his A330 aircraft in a hoodie with the words “French Tech” emblazoned on the chest, Macron claimed to have already “won the ideological battle on strategic autonomy” for Europe.

He did not address the question of ongoing U.S. security guarantees for the Continent, which relies heavily on American defense assistance amid the first major land war in Europe since World War II.

As one of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and the only nuclear power in the EU, France is in a unique position militarily. However, the country has contributed far less to the defense of Ukraine against Russia’s invasion than many other countries.

As is common in France and many other European countries, the French President’s office, known as the Elysée Palace, insisted on checking and “proofreading” all the president’s quotes to be published in this article as a condition of granting the interview. This violates POLITICO’s editorial standards and policy, but we agreed to the terms in order to speak directly with the French president. POLITICO insisted that it cannot deceive its readers and would not publish anything the president did not say. The quotes in this article were all actually said by the president, but some parts of the interview in which the president spoke even more frankly about Taiwan and Europe’s strategic autonomy were cut out by the Elysée.

Link

Another mouthpiece, just what the CCP needs.

Macron's Words After Meeting With Xi Are So Bad, They Should Be Setting off Alarms for U.S. And Taiwan
04-10-2023 02:09 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
Those fkers want to resist the US right up to the time they need our help. Eh, it's France.
04-10-2023 02:14 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 02:14 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Those fkers want to resist the US right up to the time they need our help. Eh, it's France.
The difference now is that they know the US really can’t help them anymore.
04-10-2023 02:28 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
Normally I would say "up yours, frenchy".

But with the idiot we have in charge now... can't say that I blame them.
04-10-2023 02:34 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 02:34 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Normally I would say "up yours, frenchy".
But with the idiot we have in charge now... can't say that I blame them.
Agreed, but really I think we’ve past the point where even a non-idiot as President can make the difference. I think we as a nation simply do not have the capacity to help out on the same scale that we once did.
04-10-2023 02:48 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 02:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 02:34 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Normally I would say "up yours, frenchy".
But with the idiot we have in charge now... can't say that I blame them.
Agreed, but really I think we’ve past the point where even a non-idiot as President can make the difference. I think we as a nation simply do not have the capacity to help out on the same scale that we once did.

Of course we do. The real question is do we have the desire to help out as much as we once did. Look---my biggest issue with NATO is that European conflict has been the epicenter for endless conficts that culminated in 2 world wars barely 20 years apart. Being involved there seems like its bound to eventually drag the US into another European war. That said, after nearly 80 years of the US led Rules Based Order---we have not had any major European wars until Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022. Even the Ukraine-Russia War has thus far not erupted into a full fledged world war. Despite the stability the US led Alliance has created---I see the French president is indicating he has some trepidation for being drug into conflict over the American enforcement of the American Rules Based Order in Taiwan.

People often talk about why we bother with dealing with NATO. They point to being part of that European Alliance making our involvement in yet another European War "more likely" and "and why do we allow weak nations who contribute little like Slovakia or Estonia to enjoy free defense from us when they add little in defense capabilities to the Alliance". I get that argument----but the reality is the larger the alliance gets, the less likely anyone is to attack it. Additionally, as a "defensive only alliance"---those Article 5 protections dont drag NATO nations into war if a member decides to become an aggressor nation. So---this "defensive only" alliance is not the same as the "ride or die" empire buiulding alliances that were common in Europe prior to WWII. The reality is the US conventional forces are actually less than the combined NATO forces without the US. That is a benefit for both the US and NATO member nations as it allows both the US and other NATO nations to effectively enjoy a massive defensive force without paying the entire cost of it. For the US to continue as the enforcement mechanism of the Rules Based Order----it has to have allies. In Europe its NATO----in the Pacific----alliances are managed through a series of bi-lateral and multi-lateral agreements with several individual nations (like S Korea, Japan, Australia, the Phillipines, etc). Being the primary enforcement mechanism of the order---also has the side benefit of allowing the dollar to function as the words reserve currency (which--if we are honest--- has both benefits and draw backs).

Point is, its really up to us whether we want to continue on being the primary enforcement mechanism for a world wide rules based order when there is substantial debate over whether its really very beneficial for the typical US taxpayer and the typical US worker. There is no question the American Rules Based World Order has resulted in a better world----Im not nearly as certain its resulted in a better outcome for the average US taxpayer and the average US worker.

If Im honest, I think having allies is important and helpful. What I'd like to see is us continue as we have---but make our allies carry more of the burden while removing the trade incentives that have existed to hold the alliance together. These trades arent necessary any longer as there are clear threats out there to every nation's security and the world has seen we have little interest in "empire building". We shouldnt need to "bribe up" an alliance any longer. The American worker and American taxpayer should not be punished or unduly burdened for the honor of providing the world a security umbrealla.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2023 03:34 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-10-2023 03:23 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 03:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 02:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I think we as a nation simply do not have the capacity to help out on the same scale that we once did.
Of course we do. The real question is do we have the desire to help out as much as we once did.
I would say that desire is a component of capacity. So if the desire is lacking, the capacity, inherently, is lacking as well.

But even beyond that, I think America has other issues that go much deeper and broader than just mere willingness to play a dominant or leading role in global affairs. We may just have to disagree on that.
04-10-2023 03:48 PM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
They are in NATO. What they are talking about means leaving NATO.
04-10-2023 03:52 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
Slavi ukraine retards

Muh russian sanctions


And once again


Told you so
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2023 04:00 PM by shere khan.)
04-10-2023 03:59 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Smile RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
I think that the US getting involved in Ukraine is stupid for one because it's a European problem. We stand to lose nothing if Russia takes over the Ukraine but the Europeans do have a lot at stake because Russia will be more at their doorstep. Let Macron worry about them it's not our business.
04-10-2023 04:02 PM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
What the Europeans have at stake is losing the primary agricultural supplier of the continent.
04-10-2023 04:11 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 04:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  What the Europeans have at stake is losing the primary agricultural supplier of the continent.

Maybe they should have thought about that before trying to put NATO in russias back yard.

As for us, frick em all
04-10-2023 04:16 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 04:16 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  What the Europeans have at stake is losing the primary agricultural supplier of the continent.

Maybe they should have thought about that before trying to put NATO in russias back yard.
you mean like Poland and Hungary?
04-10-2023 04:56 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 04:56 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:16 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  What the Europeans have at stake is losing the primary agricultural supplier of the continent.

Maybe they should have thought about that before trying to put NATO in russias back yard.
you mean like Poland and Hungary?

No i meant what i said. If you dont know tthe diff i cant uelp you
04-10-2023 05:09 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 05:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:56 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:16 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-10-2023 04:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  What the Europeans have at stake is losing the primary agricultural supplier of the continent.

Maybe they should have thought about that before trying to put NATO in russias back yard.
you mean like Poland and Hungary?

No i meant what i said. If you dont know tthe diff i cant uelp you
the Sea of Japan? Siberia? The Caucasus? Kiev? Sorry but “russias back yard” is not a specific region. If you don’t want to define terms you can’t help anyone.
04-10-2023 07:34 PM
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banker Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
We haven’t had a war on our soil involving another nation in over 200 years. When will we learn that we are better off embracing a healthy level of isolationism? Take our far flung military bases and move them to our coasts and borders. The only allies we need are Mexico and Canada. F everybody else.
04-10-2023 08:16 PM
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natibeast2.0 Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
The older I get the worse my opinion of that whole continent gets. Screw em
04-10-2023 08:24 PM
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Crebman Online
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
(04-10-2023 08:16 PM)banker Wrote:  We haven’t had a war on our soil involving another nation in over 200 years. When will we learn that we are better off embracing a healthy level of isolationism? Take our far flung military bases and move them to our coasts and borders. The only allies we need are Mexico and Canada. F everybody else.

……because the folks with the money calling the shots want the US weak and broke…… they are using endless wars to bleed our treasury dry. They are paying off our representatives to keep us involved where we shouldn’t be….

They are working of disarming the citizenry because they can’t really install a totalitarian government until we are disarmed. They are working on this.

Anyone paying attention can see what is happening.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2023 09:15 PM by Crebman.)
04-10-2023 09:13 PM
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ODUsmitty Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
**** the Frogs, even if I would, too, not send my French children to die in a Biden-sponsored war. Two wars we saved their arses, enough is enough. Time to focus on North and South America, and let the Eurotrash and Eastasia work it out amongst themselves.
04-10-2023 10:50 PM
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Kyle Mack Offline
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RE: Europe must resist pressure to become ‘America’s followers,’ says Macron
I thought all of our "allies" liked us again now that Trump was gone? That's what our lefty Eurotrash wannabees said.
04-11-2023 06:56 AM
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