(06-16-2023 05:30 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  What is in the current ACC bylaws? 4 teams can be added pro-rata or something to the effect?

Doesn’t solve the distribution model.

That would be in the ACC contract with ESPN not the bylaws. What do you mean about solving the distribution model?

Do you mean revenue model?

The revenue model is fixed for tier one, but grows as the ACCN revenue grows. ACCN revenue growth is one of two ways the ACC can earn more. The other is to make more off of the content that is currently with Bally Sports which will be moving to a new home. The ACC clearly thinks it has something better lined up since they asked Bally to default.

(06-16-2023 05:55 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Where is the Bally content going? You don’t ask out of a contract without having something else lined up. So many odd directions it could go if the ACC gobbled up most of the PAC with its production capacity.

Facts:
ESPN & ACC saved Raycom Sports by allowing them to transition from televising games to producing games. Raycom gave back the games that RAYCOM was airing. The issue was Fox was not giving their sublicense package back for free, No one was willing to buy them back for the ACCN.

Options moving fwd:

1. Raycom gets the rights back and sublicense them out to another TV partner (CW/USA/ION) and the ACC does not get any revenue. (Unless Raycom feels indebted to the ACC, maybe Amazon or Apple buy the package ACC gets a cut and Raycom gets a cut to produce the games?)

2. Raycom gets the package back and then gives content to ESPN under the guise they can't find a buyer as they are in the production business. (Probably worse case for the ACC, Raycom might indebted to the ESPN, and will be able to produce games for ESPN+)

3. ACC gets the rights out of bankruptcy via Raycom and then sale the content to a TV Partner. (ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW) (Raycom produces games for new TV partner)

If ESPN gets the content, my money is that the ACC will see a bump, the problem is that the ACC was always going get a bump after April 30, 2027. So my question is what does the bump look like with all these games going to ESPN+, (100-150M?) and then how will the ACC create a bump for the "next Look-in" in 2027? I wonder if it makes since to try and sell a package to Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW to see if ESPN will bring more money to the table.

All the recent whining and crying that FSU/Clemson led the magnificent 7 on will be for nothing if they just sit back and watch this play out and do not have another meeting. Or could the magnificent 7 meeting have ben about this and not conference realignment? Could there have been false reporting about the magnificent 7 true intentions? One thing is for sure it will be interesting to watch this play out!

(06-16-2023 07:39 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 05:55 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Where is the Bally content going? You don’t ask out of a contract without having something else lined up. So many odd directions it could go if the ACC gobbled up most of the PAC with its production capacity.

Facts:
ESPN & ACC saved Raycom Sports by allowing them to transition from televising games to producing games. Raycom gave back the games that RAYCOM was airing. The issue was Fox was not giving their sublicense package back for free, No one was willing to buy them back for the ACCN.

Options moving fwd:

1. Raycom gets the rights back and sublicense them out to another TV partner (CW/USA/ION) and the ACC does not get any revenue. (Unless Raycom feels indebted to the ACC, maybe Amazon or Apple buy the package ACC gets a cut and Raycom gets a cut to produce the games?)

2. Raycom gets the package back and then gives content to ESPN under the guise they can't find a buyer as they are in the production business. (Probably worse case for the ACC, Raycom might indebted to the ESPN, and will be able to produce games for ESPN+)

3. ACC gets the rights out of bankruptcy via Raycom and then sale the content to a TV Partner. (ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW) (Raycom produces games for new TV partner)

If ESPN gets the content, my money is that the ACC will see a bump, the problem is that the ACC was always going get a bump after April 30, 2027. So my question is what does the bump look like with all these games going to ESPN+, (100-150M?) and then how will the ACC create a bump for the "next Look-in" in 2027? I wonder if it makes since to try and sell a package to Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW to see if ESPN will bring more money to the table.

All the recent whining and crying that FSU/Clemson led the magnificent 7 on will be for nothing if they just sit back and watch this play out and do not have another meeting. Or could the magnificent 7 meeting have ben about this and not conference realignment? Could there have been false reporting about the magnificent 7 true intentions? One thing is for sure it will be interesting to watch this play out!

I don't think these games are going to bring a windfall to the ACC. When the Big 12 (Little 8) sold their third tier to ESPN+, they got about $30-40M for the 8 football games and basketball and whatever else (depends on what number you value the CCG at -- a CCG bump happened at the same time)

(06-16-2023 08:36 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 07:39 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 05:55 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Where is the Bally content going? You don’t ask out of a contract without having something else lined up. So many odd directions it could go if the ACC gobbled up most of the PAC with its production capacity.

Facts:
ESPN & ACC saved Raycom Sports by allowing them to transition from televising games to producing games. Raycom gave back the games that RAYCOM was airing. The issue was Fox was not giving their sublicense package back for free, No one was willing to buy them back for the ACCN.

Options moving fwd:

1. Raycom gets the rights back and sublicense them out to another TV partner (CW/USA/ION) and the ACC does not get any revenue. (Unless Raycom feels indebted to the ACC, maybe Amazon or Apple buy the package ACC gets a cut and Raycom gets a cut to produce the games?)

2. Raycom gets the package back and then gives content to ESPN under the guise they can't find a buyer as they are in the production business. (Probably worse case for the ACC, Raycom might indebted to the ESPN, and will be able to produce games for ESPN+)

3. ACC gets the rights out of bankruptcy via Raycom and then sale the content to a TV Partner. (ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW) (Raycom produces games for new TV partner)

If ESPN gets the content, my money is that the ACC will see a bump, the problem is that the ACC was always going get a bump after April 30, 2027. So my question is what does the bump look like with all these games going to ESPN+, (100-150M?) and then how will the ACC create a bump for the "next Look-in" in 2027? I wonder if it makes since to try and sell a package to Apple, Amazon, NBC, CBS, ION, CW to see if ESPN will bring more money to the table.

All the recent whining and crying that FSU/Clemson led the magnificent 7 on will be for nothing if they just sit back and watch this play out and do not have another meeting. Or could the magnificent 7 meeting have ben about this and not conference realignment? Could there have been false reporting about the magnificent 7 true intentions? One thing is for sure it will be interesting to watch this play out!

I don't think these games are going to bring a windfall to the ACC. When the Big 12 (Little 8) sold their third tier to ESPN+, they got about $30-40M for the 8 football games and basketball and whatever else (depends on what number you value the CCG at -- a CCG bump happened at the same time)

It certainly won't be a windfall. The ACC is being as creative/desperate as possible to remain within miles of the P2.

FSU and Clemson were/are correct to "cry/whine" (state reality).

Raycom Sports could acquire the P12N, cut the overhead, and merge it into their existing sports production enterprise. Resell the whole package including the weekly ACC game to Ion/CW/Amazon/whomever. P12N plus the weekly ACC game gives a solid block of uninterrupted cheap programming geared more towards exposure than revenue.

When the ACC adds a western PAC wing, they can go beyond 4+ by buying back a little low-tier content from ESPN to continue their arrangement within Ion/CW/Amazon/whomever

(06-15-2023 10:29 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Jim Williams on Louisville Sports Live.

According to JW, Pac 12 and the ACC have been chatting. ESPN talking to both of these conferences.

I'm still down for a scheduling agreement in at least football if the PAC survives whether schools 9 and 10 are Oregon & Washington or San Diego St. & SMU.

ND plays the rotating 5 ACC schools + Cal/Stanford (nothing changes for ND).

The 9 ACC football schools not playing ND play the 9 PAC not playing ND.

ACC can stay at 8 conference games if they choose to while PAC likely stays at 9 conference games.

(06-16-2023 09:06 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:36 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I don't think these games are going to bring a windfall to the ACC. When the Big 12 (Little 8) sold their third tier to ESPN+, they got about $30-40M for the 8 football games and basketball and whatever else (depends on what number you value the CCG at -- a CCG bump happened at the same time)

It certainly won't be a windfall. The ACC is being as creative/desperate as possible to remain within miles of the P2.

FSU and Clemson were/are correct to "cry/whine" (state reality).

Tier 3 amounts to spare change on the nightstand. There's a reason no one calls it Tier 1.

Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina, Miami & Friends are messengers. The reality exists whether or not others want to hear about it. (Reality tends to win out anyway.)

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 10:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Update on this:

Message Board proceeds to 'not' go crazy about this.

ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and add additional mouths to feed.
....

If a move stands to bring in more bucks than mouths, you have to consider it. The only way to find out is to run the numbers. Hence, discussion.

And who knows? Expansion could make it easier for some schools to stay. Or leave. Everything moves on more quickly to the next thing, whatever that is going to be.

(06-16-2023 11:31 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Raycom Sports could acquire the P12N, cut the overhead, and merge it into their existing sports production enterprise. Resell the whole package including the weekly ACC game to Ion/CW/Amazon/whomever. P12N plus the weekly ACC game gives a solid block of uninterrupted cheap programming geared more towards exposure than revenue.

When IF the ACC adds a western PAC wing, they can go beyond 4+ by buying back a little low-tier content from ESPN to continue their arrangement within Ion/CW/Amazon/whomever

The only way the ACC adds a western PAC wing is if UW/UO decide to take 1/2 ACC shares instead of 1/2 B1G shares or full big 12 shares. I suppose that's possible, but we've reached the boundary between "Academic Snobbery" and "Fantasy".

What are your thoughts on UCSD as a member of the Pac's ACC Wing? You seemed quite keen on them as a backfill for the Pac despite their complete lack of a football team.

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

WANTING to leave* and actually leaving are two different things.

My family wants to vacation in Alaska this Summer, but all we have is local beach money. Does that mean we shouldn't go to the beach because maybe I will inherit some money?

Planning long-term is good. Living in the present is even better.



* Technically, they don't even want to leave - they want more money.

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 10:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Update on this:

Message Board proceeds to 'not' go crazy about this.

ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

(06-17-2023 08:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 10:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Update on this:

Message Board proceeds to 'not' go crazy about this.

ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

Well, yeah, they're looking for more money, but the only way for them to get significantly more of it is for them to exit.

(06-19-2023 04:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 08:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Message Board proceeds to 'not' go crazy about this.

ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

Well, yeah, they're looking for more money, but the only way for them to get significantly more of it is for them to exit.

They could also just start printing money. Both options present legal hurdles.

(06-19-2023 04:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 08:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Message Board proceeds to 'not' go crazy about this.

ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

Well, yeah, they're looking for more money, but the only way for them to get significantly more of it is for them to exit.

Exiting now would cost them waaaaaaay more than they'd earn.

So .... if they really want more money ... they'll be looking at ways to do that in the mean time.

(06-19-2023 05:40 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 04:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 08:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

Well, yeah, they're looking for more money, but the only way for them to get significantly more of it is for them to exit.

They could also just start printing money. Both options present legal hurdles.

They would have a better chance of getting away with counterfeiting.

(06-19-2023 06:13 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 04:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-17-2023 08:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Acres Wrote:  

(04-16-2023 11:14 PM)Alanda Wrote:  ACC/PAC deal by the end of the month confirmed. I look forward to the new 2PACC.

ACC schools are looking for exits right now, why would they entangle themselves in an expansion mess that does nothing but create headaches and additional mouths to feed.

Maybe they can revisit the alliance, this time without the BIG.

Nobody in the ACC is looking to exit now, not even Florida State or Clemson, what they are looking for is more money.

Well, yeah, they're looking for more money, but the only way for them to get significantly more of it is for them to exit.

Exiting now would cost them waaaaaaay more than they'd earn.

So .... if they really want more money ... they'll be looking at ways to do that in the mean time.

Thanks to GTFletch


https://csnbbs.com/thread-971510-post-18...id18985705

It appears that the Bally Games (14 FB, 25 mbb & 40 wbb) is only worth a 3M bump per school or 45M per year

Luke DeCock, in his article in the News and Observer, quoted new ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips with the above statement. However, there is some good news in his post:

Quote:
...the leftover threads of that deal with Raycom... will eventually come off the books in 2027 — at which point each ACC school will get an immediate bump of about $3 million more per year from the ACC.

Link
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-...85514.html

How is this portion of rights contracted?

I presumed that the ACC granted the rights to Raycom who then produced the content and sold it on to Balky sports. I’m this model Raycom would be the party that could improve its revenue by changing partners.

But having the ACC be the party to request that Bally default makes me question this assumption and think that the ACC might have some financial upside with a new distributor. Or alternately improved visibility.

(06-19-2023 08:48 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  How is this portion of rights contracted?

I presumed that the ACC granted the rights to Raycom who then produced the content and sold it on to Balky sports. I’m this model Raycom would be the party that could improve its revenue by changing partners.

But having the ACC be the party to request that Bally default makes me question this assumption and think that the ACC might have some financial upside with a new distributor. Or alternately improved visibility.

That's not what happened. After the end of the 2022-23 basketball season, Diamond Sports (Ballys) stopped payments. Raycom (now Gray TV) asked Diamond to "reject the contract" in bankruptcy, which Diamond agreed to do and has done.

Raycom requested the court motion because Diamond / Ballys wasn't paying them and wasn't going to. With the contract voided, Raycom can try to sell to someone else.