Honestly curious, not trying to disrespect...

I understand Fair Dickinson getting in as the conference tournament runner up, but I'm curious about Sacred Heart on the other side of the bracket. It seems slightly unfair that St Francis vs Fair Dickinson became the de facto tournament champion and Sacred Heart was just unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the bracket.

I do see that FDU also was runner up in the regular season, but I guess my question was why it was decided that way instead of say not letting Merrimack play (would that be too few teams to hold a tournament?) or figuring out another option.

Want to be perfectly clear, I do not mean to take anything away from FDU. I have nothing against FDU at all and am impressed with their team.

Thanks for any clarification.

The WAC also let’s teams who aren’t yet eligible for the NCAA tournament play in the conference tournament so I know it is confusing sometimes.

My take is that the NEC just lets their conference tourney play out as if all teams could go to the NCAA, and if an ineligible team happened to win, the other finalist goes because they made it the farthest in the conference tournament.

I read a better explanation online but can’t find it right. Now.

I think Bellarmine won the ASUN's men's bb tournament as well, and they were not eligible either,.

(03-19-2023 09:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think Bellarmine won the ASUN's men's bb tournament as well, and they were not eligible either,.

That was last year. Jacksonville lost to them in the Championship Game but Jacksonville St (regular-season champ) received the auto-bid.

Merrimack were already in this predicament in their first year in D1 when they won the NEC regular season but were ineligible to compete in the NEC tournament. The NEC allows you to start competing in it's tournament in your 4th and last year in transition hence why Stonehill who finished tied for 2nd with FDU could not compete in it. I'm glad Merrimack got the chance and took it even if they didn't get to go to the Big Dance. I could see the NEC changing their rules though next season with St Francis (NY) cutting all athletics today and some D2 call-ups likely on the horizon.

Ultimately it's up to the conferences to decide if programs that are still in their transition period can compete in their conferences tournaments.

Atlantic Sun lets you compete right away. Bellarmine won it last year and North Alabama got to the tournament final in their third year. The WAC makes you wait two years. As a result Tarleton State and Utah Tech got to take part in the WAC tournament for the first time this year. The Summit League until this was going to make programs wait until they completed all 4 years but the format changed and all teams now take part. I'm not sure about the Big West if UC-San Diego can take part in their tournament next year or if they have to wait one more year.

(03-20-2023 06:30 PM)Mid-Major Hoops Enthusiast Wrote:  Merrimack were already in this predicament in their first year in D1 when they won the NEC regular season but were ineligible to compete in the NEC tournament. The NEC allows you to start competing in it's tournament in your 4th and last year in transition hence why Stonehill who finished tied for 2nd with FDU could not compete in it. I'm glad Merrimack got the chance and took it even if they didn't get to go to the Big Dance. I could see the NEC changing their rules though next season with St Francis (NY) cutting all athletics today and some D2 call-ups likely on the horizon.

Ultimately it's up to the conferences to decide if programs that are still in their transition period can compete in their conferences tournaments.

Atlantic Sun lets you compete right away. Bellarmine won it last year and North Alabama got to the tournament final in their third year. The WAC makes you wait two years. As a result Tarleton State and Utah Tech got to take part in the WAC tournament for the first time this year. The Summit League until this was going to make programs wait until they completed all 4 years but the format changed and all teams now take part. I'm not sure about the Big West if UC-San Diego can take part in their tournament next year or if they have to wait one more year.

And I think that conferences in general adapt to the current membership to do what makes the most sense right then. The WAC tweaked its conference tournament rules to include some teams that we would not have included previously, but it was more of a pragmatic thing than some big philosophical theory on whether transitioning teams should or shouldn’t be included. If there was 1 transitioning school and it would create an additional round in their tournament, I’d guess a conference wouldn’t do it. If there was already a free spot waiting due to odd numbers, I’d say most would do it then.

Honestly, you could make the argument to run it as a 7 team tournament, then the winner plays Merrimack just for fun. It is kind of a weird set up, like being the 6 seed is arguable better than being the 4 or 5 seed, since you would avoid the theoretical best team in the conference until a possibly meaningless championship game.

What the ASun did, give the auto-bid to the regular season champ, also could make sense, but you do lose out on an NIT bid in that case, though that's not as big of a deal.

(03-19-2023 08:48 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Honestly curious, not trying to disrespect...

I understand Fair Dickinson getting in as the conference tournament runner up, but I'm curious about Sacred Heart on the other side of the bracket. It seems slightly unfair that St Francis vs Fair Dickinson became the de facto tournament champion and Sacred Heart was just unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the bracket.

I do see that FDU also was runner up in the regular season, but I guess my question was why it was decided that way instead of say not letting Merrimack play (would that be too few teams to hold a tournament?) or figuring out another option.

Want to be perfectly clear, I do not mean to take anything away from FDU. I have nothing against FDU at all and am impressed with their team.

Thanks for any clarification.

It's unfortunate in today's age,.that you are forced to pre-aologize that many times before posting a meaningful question.

(03-20-2023 06:30 PM)Mid-Major Hoops Enthusiast Wrote:  Merrimack were already in this predicament in their first year in D1 when they won the NEC regular season but were ineligible to compete in the NEC tournament. The NEC allows you to start competing in it's tournament in your 4th and last year in transition hence why Stonehill who finished tied for 2nd with FDU could not compete in it. I'm glad Merrimack got the chance and took it even if they didn't get to go to the Big Dance. I could see the NEC changing their rules though next season with St Francis (NY) cutting all athletics today and some D2 call-ups likely on the horizon.

Ultimately it's up to the conferences to decide if programs that are still in their transition period can compete in their conferences tournaments.

Atlantic Sun lets you compete right away. Bellarmine won it last year and North Alabama got to the tournament final in their third year. The WAC makes you wait two years. As a result Tarleton State and Utah Tech got to take part in the WAC tournament for the first time this year. The Summit League until this was going to make programs wait until they completed all 4 years but the format changed and all teams now take part. I'm not sure about the Big West if UC-San Diego can take part in their tournament next year or if they have to wait one more year.

The NEC changed its rule last Spring to permit 3rd and 4th year schools to compete. This let 4th year Merrimack to compete, though they missed the third year because of when the rule changed.

Stonehill will be able to compete in the tournament 2024-2025.

The announcement said they changed the rule because of more emphasis on the student-athlete experience and the practice of peer conferences.

ASUN let North Alabama, Bellarmine, and Queens compete in their tournament beginning in the first year. So did the OVC and Lindenwood and Southern Indiana.

The WAC, OVC, and ASUN may have been more willing to let early participation because adding new members was more existential. It may be becoming more like that for the NEC now that they've lost Bryant, Mount St. Mary's and St. Francis Brooklyn.

The Big West can be more discerning. UCSD might not have been willing to join the WAC. CSU Bakersfield got out as soon as they could.

It may be harder to recruit and retain players. If you were on the DII team, you may now be getting a full scholarship, better facilities, and better competition. You were playing for a DII school because no DI school recruited you.

But the new recruits may realize there is zero chance to play in the NCAAT. It become attractive to jump to a school where you can play in the conference tournament or even if you get lucky to choose a school like St. Peter's, Bryant or Fairleigh Dickinson to play in the NCAAT.

It's not that Sacred Heart was "unlucky" to be on the other side of the bracket. They finished 4th, they put themselves in that position.