Announcing a conference change during the middle of March Madness ?

(03-03-2023 01:04 PM)Glenn360 Wrote:  Announcing a conference change during the middle of March Madness ?

After whatever school gets the autobid it doesn't matter. Some conferences get mean when a school wants to leave.

(03-03-2023 12:59 PM)Huan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arizona/Ar...189624231/

That’s from July 3, 2022.

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:30 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  "Yormark would need to get Fox to be an equal share partner in expansion. CBS Sports previously reported that the Big 12’s new rights contract includes an agreement with ESPN on a pro rata clause but that Fox has not committed to one. ESPN got 63 percent of the new TV deal with the Big 12, sources briefed on the agreement confirmed. Fox would have to sign off on the Big 12 adding Pac-12 schools as full-share members."

Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience

Even if FOX didn't buy in you simply need to add another partner. Odds are Fox would want at least a piece of the new schools.

Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

(03-03-2023 12:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

Thats why I keep saying I'd unclog the log jam by giving Oregon and Washington what they want---a Big12 GOR membership with an opt out clause if the B10 calls. If Im Yormark---and my goal is the 4-corners---why do I care if I take a package of 6 Pac12 teams (including the 4-corners) knowing that Oregon and Washington are rentals? Best case---the Big10 never calls and the Big12 gets the current king pins of the Pac12 as long term members---or worst case---you lose the Oregon/Washington pair to the B10 and end up with the 4-corners you were always targeting. I just dont see the down side.

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.

(03-03-2023 12:44 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If the Big 12 could pounce and grab the Four Corners, as well as possibly Oregon and Washington, would there still be a need for the Big 12 to get Gonzaga too?

Boy, Stanford and California would be SOL (as would Oregon State and Washington State).

Alas, this is exactly what occurred to the original Big East. Loyalty and history only go as far as the allure of significantly more money.

I honestly don't know why the Big 12 would take that step of Gonzaga...

You're "elevating" the money going to a WCC program that still operates in the Top 10, and what are you getting? Basketball is 2/7ths of the TV contract. Big 12 basketball is just elite already and not really losing anything...

#10 Texas and last-place Oklahoma are leaving.
#1 Houston is joining.
A strong Cincinnati program are joining.
BYU is always a solid record which keeps OOC win percentage at the same level as before.
UCF will just buy guarantee games (same B12 OOC win pct as before) and take it on the chin in conference instead of playing FIVE P5 schools OOC.

The Big 12, as it stands now, for non-hoops travel partner sports (like VB) would do: BYU/TTU, KU/KSU, TCU/BAY, WVU/CIN... and ISU/OSU and HOU/UCF.

So you add Washington, Oregon... they'd be travel partners; why do you need Gonzaga?
Or you add Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado and Utah (BYU/Utah, TTU/CU, ASU/UA)... why do you need Gonzaga?

Gonzaga is great and gets some TV ratings late... but... How much TV ratings are they getting when they're playing UCF at 11 pm? Not much. Half their ratings are WCC teams in SD, LA, SF, PORT.

The only real reason to take Gonzaga is if you DON'T want Oregon or Washington or either, and want to take options off the table for the "Pac-6" or "Pac-5"

(03-03-2023 01:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:59 PM)Huan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arizona/Ar...189624231/

That’s from July 3, 2022.

Sorry. My bad

(03-03-2023 11:37 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  The Big East, which was essentially down to USF, Cincinnati, and Connecticut was able to lure CUSA schools to join. Remember, this was before they were called the AAC.

Those CUSA schools were previously committed to the Big East when there were still 10 schools.

There was only 3 football schools, that's why I said "essentially".

(03-03-2023 12:45 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  I don't. I think even a 2 member Pac 12 is able invite MWC or AAC members. Do you realize how big of a war chest they will have from exit fees. We're talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Big East, which was essentially down to USF, Cincinnati, and Connecticut was able to lure CUSA schools to join. Remember, this was before they were called the AAC.

Pac doesn't have exit fees.

OK, didn't know that. So the obvious question is, why not?

(03-03-2023 12:51 PM)Jeff Smithers Wrote:  I'm not seeing any reason why Fox would willingly pay pro-rata shares for these four schools. ESPN will because they need content for the late-night window (and because it's in the contract). Fox already has enough content to fill all their windows. Otherwise, they would have put in some type of bid for a game or two a week from the PAC 12.

I'm not really sure what FOX wants to do. They didn't bid on the PAC which tells me they aren't super interested in content unless it's, in their words, "pennies on the dollar". With that said, Utah-BYU or Oregon-Ok. St. would draw much better viewership than whatever games the MWC conference can provide in a late window. FOX has USC/UCLA but that's not enough to fill a full late-night slate if they want to broadcast P5 sports in that window and USC/UCLA will still want some primetime TV slots when they're in the B1G, not just late-night.

All I know is FOX has a ROFR and, if they want more CFB/MBB content, they will have every opportunity to bid or match any outside bidders on the increased Big 12 package. Those outside bidders would likely be the same as who is bidding on the PAC right now so ESPN, Amazon, and Apple...who knows maybe ION.

(03-03-2023 01:10 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:30 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  "Yormark would need to get Fox to be an equal share partner in expansion. CBS Sports previously reported that the Big 12’s new rights contract includes an agreement with ESPN on a pro rata clause but that Fox has not committed to one. ESPN got 63 percent of the new TV deal with the Big 12, sources briefed on the agreement confirmed. Fox would have to sign off on the Big 12 adding Pac-12 schools as full-share members."

Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience

Even if FOX didn't buy in you simply need to add another partner. Odds are Fox would want at least a piece of the new schools.

Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

Great points! I would like to add that a 4C add would give Fox better basketball matchups to choose from as well, especially when Gonzaga is added. Arizona/Gonzaga in conference matchups are going to produce good numbers.

A 4C add would also come with minor renegotiations. Fox would pay more in a pro rata style to match ESPN's and they will probably add a football game pick or two, and add basketball games as well. They might even take some selections away from ESPN in a trade to accommodate to give ESPN better access/selections to the late night games they want for better game selections.

Even if Fox is not on board, B12 could add a 3rd partner who selects after ESPN and Fox's negotiated selections, as long as ESPN would be willing to part with some of their ESPN+ T3 content, and with the expanded inventory, I think they would be willing.

(03-03-2023 01:15 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

Thats why I keep saying I'd unclog the log jam by giving Oregon and Washington what they want---a Big12 GOR membership with an opt out clause if the B10 calls. If Im Yormark---and my goal is the 4-corners---why do I care if I take a package of 6 Pac12 teams (including the 4-corners) knowing that Oregon and Washington are rentals? Best case---the Big10 never calls and the Big12 gets the current king pins of the Pac12 as long term members---or worst case---you lose the Oregon/Washington pair to the B10 and end up with the 4-corners you were always targeting. I just dont see the down side.

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.

The Big 12 should have as P2 friendly GOR as networks allow, for all schools.

That should help consolidate the top brands outside the P2, which then means a GOR isn’t really needed.

UW and Stanford have been the most quiet for a reason Imo. Warren’s continual flaming of future moves always screamed as a ploy to make UW and Stanford without a conference.

The BIG isn’t dependent on anyone in realignment, but the human element can’t be ignored. It is an easier sell to BIG Presidents to take Stanford and UW, perhaps on partial shares, despite not being accretive otherwise, if those schools aren’t in the historical partner conference of BIG.

Yeah I just can't wait for matchups of traditional Rivals like UCF vs Colorado and Arizona State vs Cincinnati football games- exhilarating stuff, lol.

(03-03-2023 01:27 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:10 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:30 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  "Yormark would need to get Fox to be an equal share partner in expansion. CBS Sports previously reported that the Big 12’s new rights contract includes an agreement with ESPN on a pro rata clause but that Fox has not committed to one. ESPN got 63 percent of the new TV deal with the Big 12, sources briefed on the agreement confirmed. Fox would have to sign off on the Big 12 adding Pac-12 schools as full-share members."

Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience

Even if FOX didn't buy in you simply need to add another partner. Odds are Fox would want at least a piece of the new schools.

Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

Great points! I would like to add that a 4C add would give Fox better basketball matchups to choose from as well, especially when Gonzaga is added. Arizona/Gonzaga in conference matchups are going to produce good numbers.

A 4C add would also come with minor renegotiations. Fox would pay more in a pro rata style to match ESPN's and they will probably add a football game pick or two, and add basketball games as well. They might even take some selections away from ESPN in a trade to accommodate to give ESPN better access/selections to the late night games they want for better game selections.

Even if Fox is not on board, B12 could add a 3rd partner who selects after ESPN and Fox's negotiated selections, as long as ESPN would be willing to part with some of their ESPN+ T3 content, and with the expanded inventory, I think they would be willing.

Gonzaga won’t be added if the Big 12 goes to 16.

(03-03-2023 01:30 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:27 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:10 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Even if FOX didn't buy in you simply need to add another partner. Odds are Fox would want at least a piece of the new schools.

Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

Great points! I would like to add that a 4C add would give Fox better basketball matchups to choose from as well, especially when Gonzaga is added. Arizona/Gonzaga in conference matchups are going to produce good numbers.

A 4C add would also come with minor renegotiations. Fox would pay more in a pro rata style to match ESPN's and they will probably add a football game pick or two, and add basketball games as well. They might even take some selections away from ESPN in a trade to accommodate to give ESPN better access/selections to the late night games they want for better game selections.

Even if Fox is not on board, B12 could add a 3rd partner who selects after ESPN and Fox's negotiated selections, as long as ESPN would be willing to part with some of their ESPN+ T3 content, and with the expanded inventory, I think they would be willing.

Gonzaga won’t be added if the Big 12 goes to 16.

I tend to agree. This could open the door for the Big East to add Gonzaga.

(03-03-2023 01:22 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:59 PM)Huan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arizona/Ar...189624231/

That’s from July 3, 2022.

Sorry. My bad

Scheer was retweeting that essentially saying, "See, I was right. Arizona is talking."

(03-03-2023 01:32 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:30 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:27 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:10 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

Great points! I would like to add that a 4C add would give Fox better basketball matchups to choose from as well, especially when Gonzaga is added. Arizona/Gonzaga in conference matchups are going to produce good numbers.

A 4C add would also come with minor renegotiations. Fox would pay more in a pro rata style to match ESPN's and they will probably add a football game pick or two, and add basketball games as well. They might even take some selections away from ESPN in a trade to accommodate to give ESPN better access/selections to the late night games they want for better game selections.

Even if Fox is not on board, B12 could add a 3rd partner who selects after ESPN and Fox's negotiated selections, as long as ESPN would be willing to part with some of their ESPN+ T3 content, and with the expanded inventory, I think they would be willing.

Gonzaga won’t be added if the Big 12 goes to 16.

I tend to agree. This could open the door for the Big East to add Gonzaga.

If the presidents don’t want them it won’t matter though.

(03-03-2023 01:25 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:45 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  I don't. I think even a 2 member Pac 12 is able invite MWC or AAC members. Do you realize how big of a war chest they will have from exit fees. We're talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Big East, which was essentially down to USF, Cincinnati, and Connecticut was able to lure CUSA schools to join. Remember, this was before they were called the AAC.

Pac doesn't have exit fees.

OK, didn't know that. So the obvious question is, why not?

Who knows? You'd have to ask them.

Prior to the SEC advancing media money for COVID, the SEC didn't have one either. But that always made sense to me. Who was going to leave the SEC? I wouldn't think the PAC would have that kind of hubris, although I guess actions over the last 30 years or so shows they do. I mean, if members of your conference don't believe that the University of Texas is good enough to join your conference, I suppose there's not much more hubris than that.

(03-03-2023 01:30 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:27 PM)Mean Green Alum Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 01:10 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Even if FOX didn't buy in you simply need to add another partner. Odds are Fox would want at least a piece of the new schools.

Fox has all the game inventory they need.
And if you bring in another partner to show the additional inventory, what the heck is ESPN getting for their $20M per team?

They get 63% of new inventory. Plus get 4-6 PAC schools rather than needing to pay 10 to get 4 to 6. Also sharing the costs of creating best case late night window permutations (Big 16 or 18 offers more chances of better matchups than either conference separately).

Big 12 knows the numbers reasonably well from adding 4C, and did before agreeing to contract. It’s one reason why it came in lower than some thought was market value.

Great points! I would like to add that a 4C add would give Fox better basketball matchups to choose from as well, especially when Gonzaga is added. Arizona/Gonzaga in conference matchups are going to produce good numbers.

A 4C add would also come with minor renegotiations. Fox would pay more in a pro rata style to match ESPN's and they will probably add a football game pick or two, and add basketball games as well. They might even take some selections away from ESPN in a trade to accommodate to give ESPN better access/selections to the late night games they want for better game selections.

Even if Fox is not on board, B12 could add a 3rd partner who selects after ESPN and Fox's negotiated selections, as long as ESPN would be willing to part with some of their ESPN+ T3 content, and with the expanded inventory, I think they would be willing.

Gonzaga won’t be added if the Big 12 goes to 16.

I think they will. I took the Athletic quote to mean that they wanted to secure 4C negotiations before Gonzaga negotiations. A 4C add would change some contractual details with a Gonzaga add.

Honestly, I see a Gonzaga add as being more likely with the 4C than less. 17 basketball schools would not be too crazy to schedule either, and might actually help with NCAA tournament selection to prevent less rematches that drives down school's records. With the quality of their basketball, more good teams are better for tournament selection.

(03-03-2023 01:15 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 12:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 11:11 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I really wonder if Yormark doesn't make the Hail Mary move for Washington and Oregon.

Smoke signals that the Four Corners are thinking about defecting has to raise concerns at UW and UO and Nike HQ, don't they?

Thats why I keep saying I'd unclog the log jam by giving Oregon and Washington what they want---a Big12 GOR membership with an opt out clause if the B10 calls. If Im Yormark---and my goal is the 4-corners---why do I care if I take a package of 6 Pac12 teams (including the 4-corners) knowing that Oregon and Washington are rentals? Best case---the Big10 never calls and the Big12 gets the current king pins of the Pac12 as long term members---or worst case---you lose the Oregon/Washington pair to the B10 and end up with the 4-corners you were always targeting. I just dont see the down side.

If I’m running the Big 12, that’s essentially the approach that needs to be taken: no strings attached to any Pac-12 schools. If some schools get an invite to the Big Ten the next day, then no hard feelings or exit fees. That’s fine in the long run because the Big 12 would still be in a better position having added other Pac-12 schools. Offering a little more money than the Pac-12 isn’t really doing anything here. The Big 12 needs to offer a lot flexibility if wants movement.

However, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I think a lot of fans aren’t comprehending that Washington is every bit as academically elitist as Stanford and Cal and that’s a driving factor here. Oregon may not be as hung up on it, but Washington is more like Michigan than it is like Ohio State on this front. It truly needs to be horrific tire fire of a Pac-12 TV contract for Washington to even consider moving anywhere besides the Big Ten.

Isn't it a prisoner's dilemma situation? If anyone defects to the Big 12, a bunch of schools will defect. It's not that Washington would jump because Big 12 contract is better--they'd be jumping because the contract is bad enough that SOMEONE is going to jump.

If Washington is looking at a PAC with Oregon, STanford, Cal, WSU, OSU -- and SDSU, SMU, Fresno and Boise, is that better than being the first to jump to the Big 12?